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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: New (unofficial) patch for ToE / AI mod
Thread: New (unofficial) patch for ToE / AI mod This thread is 38 pages long: 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 ... 20 30 38 · «PREV / NEXT»
Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 18, 2011 06:27 PM
Edited by Fauch at 18:29, 18 Apr 2011.

that sounds amazing. should I understand we might be able to create new skills and perks? (how? in xml, or will it be more complicated?)


also, I had a few ideas for new abilities and spells :

new ability :
teleport : currently it is the same as flying unit. they should be immune to stormwind. also, maybe they should be able to teleport away even when entangled by treants?


new spells, hopefully they won't be hard to make :

precision (lvl 3) : gives no range penalty. +2/4/6 to range attack

flight (lvl 3) : allows the creature to fly. might increase movement as well. +0/1/2 movement (note that from what I know, agility and rider charge don't work on flying units)

bind flyer (lvl 3) : removes the ability to fly. might decrease movement as well. -0/1/2 movement

invisibility (lvl 2/3) : makes a creature invisible. 1/2/3/4 turns

fire shield (lvl 4) : gives fire shield to a creature. 20/30/40% damage

slayer (lvl 1) : gives anti-giant to a creature +2/4/6/8 attack and defense against large creatures.

counter first strike (lvl 2) : gives preparation to a creature.

swiftness (lv 4) : gives fast attack. expert level gives no retaliation.

magic shield (lvl 3) : gives 25/50/75% magic proof.

cat reflexes (lvl 4) : gives cleave. expert level gives double attack.

storm (lvl 4/5) : similar to the storm lord ability.

tirelessness (lvl 4) : gives unlimited retaliations. expert level also gives frenzy.

mind shield (lvl 4) : gives mind immunity

as you can see, it only uses existing abilities.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted April 18, 2011 06:50 PM

Quote:
This truly empowers modders to create new creature sets, perks, skills, magic spells, artefacts and all will be working on the basis of the magic essence, i.e. the digital building blocks that implement it. This also opens the door to balance and fine-tune the combat mechanics. The combat arena engine will technically perform everything on the basis of the magic essence as opposed to evaluating the stats and perks and skills individually, i.e. they are expressed by their magic essence equivalent. It is entirely possible to have an extension to the game that the player can turn on if desired and which modifies effectively the combat stats, perks and skills. The hard-coded limitations will no longer be there.


I find it difficult to understand how those magical essence terrain effects are connected to the creation of new skills, spells and artifacts. The way I thought how it needed to be done is adding a list of spells, skills and artifacts to the already existing creature and classes framework. Then modmakers should reserve slots in the framework and use lua code to program the effects of the new skills, spells and artifacts. For example if I want to improve the estates skill to give 2% extra gold with every levelup of the hero, how is that in any way related to the magical essence story? I like the idea of having terrain effects to experiment with, but from that perspective I would like it better as a new secondary skill like elemental chains. I'm not sure I like to have the whole game rebuild around it, because I like the game already as it is.

Quote:
Regarding the neutral stacks, we already made the step to have mixed creatures in them, the next logical one could be to have neutral heroes fighting alongside them. There is a ton of options and more flexibility for neutral stacks that hasn't even been explored yet. Your thoughts?


That sounds great!, the ability to add neutral heroes to stacks was also something I wanted to propose but forgot. In the defaultstats.xdb
there is a section where you can modify the creatures guarding the treasure buildings. I was wondering if it is possible to create such an xdb file connected to the random lvl 1-7 stacks. So that modders have total freedom to change the behavior of those to their own liking. The xdb file will need to have some more advanced functions.
It must support random creatures and also random creatures only picked from a certain faction. Furthermore it must be possible to set stack growing to true. Perhaps you should also implement lvl 8-10 random stacks in the editor. Those will not necessarily contain higher level creatures but more difficult combinations of lvl 4-7 creatures.

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Lichking012
Lichking012


Known Hero
posted April 18, 2011 11:36 PM

Quote:
I find it difficult to understand how those magical essence terrain effects are connected to the creation of new skills, spells and artifacts. The way I thought how it needed to be done is adding a list of spells, skills and artifacts to the already existing creature and classes framework. Then modmakers should reserve slots in the framework and use lua code to program the effects of the new skills, spells and artifacts. For example if I want to improve the estates skill to give 2% extra gold with every levelup of the hero, how is that in any way related to the magical essence story? I like the idea of having terrain effects to experiment with, but from that perspective I would like it better as a new secondary skill like elemental chains. I'm not sure I like to have the whole game rebuild around it, because I like the game already as it is.
From what I understand,it allows any effect to be used on anything which is a lot more freeing. You could have a terrain which improves your estate skill while your on it. You can have a spell that uses a creatures special ability or a castles special ability. Basically, it involves making all hard coded limitations the same tag. Right now they are x, y, z , q, etc. but by making all of these effects go into one group you can modify and mix and match all of them.

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Nargott
Nargott


Known Hero
posted April 19, 2011 07:17 AM
Edited by Nargott at 07:43, 19 Apr 2011.

Quote:

What is your opinion? It should give you much more power to balance the combat mechanics as you see fit, but I do not know enough about where you are heading with your WarGame edition to say whether you may see this as an improvement. Currently things are still in flux so we can discuss and redesign the proposed approach as we see fit.



Using the magic blocks is good. I myself have tried to use it, but I did not have access to the code, only to resources. Spells, abilities, effects, perks - all are elements of the language that I use to to realize this or that concept. More elements - the wider possibilities.

For WarGame Edition main goal is to provide the player more interesting choice at any stage of the game. Options for each choice should be really interesting, strong and balanced, whether it's fighting (defense, waiting, maneuvering, the attack or the activation of the ability) or a game on the map. Therefore, the key is not the number of opportunities but their quality.

It is therefore important to have the ability to configure perks, abilities, effects, spells.
Again underscore the importance of correcting the bug with the wall shields (which is typical for WGE 33% of creatures), and visualization of Defense (which is often used in WGE). That would be good also for other mods. Is it possible?

Also, I would like to be able to set duration for a spell Berserk. In addition, the gaming resources is not possible to configure a bonus for expert skill Berserk (it always the same with the advanced).

Quote:

The eight skills enhancement will be enabled by default, but you can disable it with a single line in .xdb. I know that it often requires tough choices of the player if there are only six skills. In the current state, having eight is an enrichment because it will allow the players to unlock more of the special perks that require other skill and perk requisites. Further on, the fully modifiable skill system (see below) will enable a much broader skill and perk choice so that eight skills should make the game more interesting.



Personally, I play multiplayer, where the heroes rarely exceed 20-24 level. Therefore I consider, 6 skills enough. 6 directions - it is 36 places for the skills and perks, is not that enough?

System of 8 places seriously shifts the balance in favor of universal heroes, so I personally do not like this innovation. The game is a set of restrictive rules, and do not always expand the scope is good for gameplay.

Since a number of issues our opinions may differ, the ability to configure game options is important. If not in the game, then in the resources - but in one place (and documented).

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 19, 2011 02:04 PM

you could decrease the amount of xp points required to level up, that way there would be more point in having 48 slots. that would also make ultimates a better option

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Nargott
Nargott


Known Hero
posted April 19, 2011 02:51 PM
Edited by Nargott at 14:57, 19 Apr 2011.

Best of all - to make the settings of experience levels in game resources to modders can configure the leveling speed  at its discretion.

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Quantomas
Quantomas


Responsible
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
posted April 19, 2011 08:54 PM

Quote:
From what I understand,it allows any effect to be used on anything which is a lot more freeing. You could have a terrain which improves your estate skill while your on it. You can have a spell that uses a creatures special ability or a castles special ability. Basically, it involves making all hard coded limitations the same tag. Right now they are x, y, z , q, etc. but by making all of these effects go into one group you can modify and mix and match all of them.

That's one way to think of it that it is applicable to everything.

Technically modders will keep the ability to define creatures plain H5 vanilla style. The game will automatically translate these creature definitions into their magic essence equivalent. It's just additional power for the modders, for example they could define the arrow type from elements to provide ice or fire arrows.

There will be a clean mathematical model that defines how this works and how to use the formula to do advanced stuff. I will post a definition when I have the time for it.

Ideally, that is if we can design the interface, we will have every modification to be switched on/off from within the game. This will also include selections of modifications, so that we could for example turn on every modification required for the WarGame edition with a single click. Details and formats for the necessary .xdb files still need to be sorted out, but it would be some sort of meta structure that says WarGame edition enables creatures, perks, skills, spells as defined in a list that follows.

I am pretty sure that the game has already a feature that scales the experience of heroes. I think some campaign maps use this. Is this not exposed as a script variable?


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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted April 19, 2011 09:20 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 21:25, 19 Apr 2011.

Quote:
I am pretty sure that the game has already a feature that scales the experience of heroes. I think some campaign maps use this. Is this not exposed as a script variable?


Unfortunately not, the following mod was created with hex-editing,
the changes were also included in RPE:

http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=26126
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rpgyay
rpgyay


Known Hero
posted April 26, 2011 03:21 AM

I haven't heard from you in a little while, how are the fixes coming along Quantomas? Will the next release include all the fixes on your scheduled tasks?

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Quantomas
Quantomas


Responsible
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
posted April 26, 2011 07:41 AM
Edited by Quantomas at 07:41, 26 Apr 2011.

Quote:
I haven't heard from you in a little while, how are the fixes coming along Quantomas? Will the next release include all the fixes on your scheduled tasks?

Things are moving.

Have a look the design thread - Heroes 5.5 - Eternal Essence - Design
and the project website - Developer Diary

There is a ton of info by now. I start to think that I have to work more on the code and stop writing stuff.

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Psatkha
Psatkha


Promising
Known Hero
H5 MODder
posted April 26, 2011 09:31 AM

This AI-MOD compatible with NCF ?!

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Quantomas
Quantomas


Responsible
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
posted April 26, 2011 05:34 PM

The next beta release 3.1.8 will contain the reinstatement of the full lookahead depth but still will be significantly faster on impossible sized maps than the 3.1 AI mod due to a number of additional optimizations. It will also give the player a choice of aggressive and defensive AI plus individual resource handicaps for each computer opponent.

It will also include native NCF support in the .exe and a couple other enhancements. 3.1.8 should be better in all respects than the 3.1 AI mod and I will also release a proper 3.1b without debug code to replace 3.1. With the upgrades things should really get interesting.

After that we will move on towards 3.2 which will include all the tasks currently scheduled, i.e. the bug fixes, optimizations and new features listed in the dev diary.

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Psatkha
Psatkha


Promising
Known Hero
H5 MODder
posted April 27, 2011 06:11 AM

Quote:
The next beta release 3.1.8 will contain the reinstatement of the full lookahead depth but still will be significantly faster on impossible sized maps than the 3.1 AI mod due to a number of additional optimizations. It will also give the player a choice of aggressive and defensive AI plus individual resource handicaps for each computer opponent.

It will also include native NCF support in the .exe and a couple other enhancements. 3.1.8 should be better in all respects than the 3.1 AI mod and I will also release a proper 3.1b without debug code to replace 3.1. With the upgrades things should really get interesting.

After that we will move on towards 3.2 which will include all the tasks currently scheduled, i.e. the bug fixes, optimizations and new features listed in the dev diary.


Good news! It is very cool I want to wish you good luck and make progress with every success in this MEGA project!

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mfdoom
mfdoom


Hired Hero
posted April 27, 2011 06:47 PM

Quote:
The next beta release 3.1.8 will contain the reinstatement of the full lookahead depth but still will be significantly faster on impossible sized maps than the 3.1 AI mod due to a number of additional optimizations. It will also give the player a choice of aggressive and defensive AI plus individual resource handicaps for each computer opponent.

It will also include native NCF support in the .exe and a couple other enhancements. 3.1.8 should be better in all respects than the 3.1 AI mod and I will also release a proper 3.1b without debug code to replace 3.1. With the upgrades things should really get interesting.

After that we will move on towards 3.2 which will include all the tasks currently scheduled, i.e. the bug fixes, optimizations and new features listed in the dev diary.


Estimated time?The game is completely unplayable without your patch.

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siinn
siinn


Adventuring Hero
posted April 28, 2011 01:05 AM
Edited by siinn at 01:07, 28 Apr 2011.

Quote:

Estimated time?The game is completely unplayable without your patch.


Tsss tsss tsss!

Estimated time? => Let the artist do his job and wait for new releases without asking for schedule. Quantomas has powerfull magic skills but he is working alone so take it easy: wait and see!

The game is completely unplayable without your patch. => I hope it's some kind of a joke?

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mfdoom
mfdoom


Hired Hero
posted April 28, 2011 08:47 AM

Quote:
Quote:

Estimated time?The game is completely unplayable without your patch.


Tsss tsss tsss!

Estimated time? => Let the artist do his job and wait for new releases without asking for schedule. Quantomas has powerfull magic skills but he is working alone so take it easy: wait and see!

The game is completely unplayable without your patch. => I hope it's some kind of a joke?



I was just asking dude. And no it's not a joke i had H5 since release but couldn't play it, cause when 75 % of the game is waiting for a crappy AI, it just ain't worth it.

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Quantomas
Quantomas


Responsible
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
posted April 28, 2011 10:09 AM

Cheers, Siinn.

There are too many posters who think they have written something sensible but technically are detractors for the project. I.e. posts that will people put off if they come to the website and read those first.

I can completely understand that the devs and Ubisoft have mixed feelings about the community. Many well meaning posts just don't hit the right note and will make visitors new to the board think twice. That's of course an issue for the devs and makes communication unnecessary difficult.

Mfdoom, someone who just goes to the last page of the thread and reads your first post will probably think the AI mod is just not up to the task. Is that what you wish to say?

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mfdoom
mfdoom


Hired Hero
posted April 28, 2011 10:39 AM

Quote:

Mfdoom, someone who just goes to the last page of the thread and reads your first post will probably think the AI mod is just not up to the task. Is that what you wish to say?


Hell no!Exactly the opposite.It's just you said new version will be even more faster so that's why i asked.

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Markus404
Markus404

Tavern Dweller
posted May 02, 2011 07:04 PM

Just one question, the new exe use the settings in DefaultStats.xdb for the various difficulty level (easy, normal, hard.. lines 2278 to 2409) ?

And please put some "enhancements" in another exe, I don't want 8 skills by hero, I really don't see the interest because:
1/ most of times, my main hero is approximately level 20 at the end.
2/ I don't want all heroes are the same in each games.

In the same view, I don't use NCF because there are too many high-powered creatures or "level 4-7 dwellings" because that make the game too easy.

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 03, 2011 04:30 PM

well, no one said you had to use all NCF creatures. probably a few of them are balanced.

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