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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: New (unofficial) patch for ToE / AI mod
Thread: New (unofficial) patch for ToE / AI mod [ This thread is 29 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 (20) 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 ]
Selvaria
Selvaria

Tavern Dweller
posted August 08, 2011 08:17 AM
Edited by Selvaria at 08:20, 08 Aug 2011.

I played the map Allies (2v2v2) and the AI is doing great for awhile, then after some time all the AIs stop doing anything, it just says blue player ponders, teal player ponders, etc. What happened?

I'm referring to the AI mod.
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Markkur
Markkur


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Onward through the fog!
posted August 08, 2011 09:54 AM

What. Ponders? You're actually reading that?

I've not heard of this. Make sure you "save the save" and have some patience. Q is working on the A.I. and will not be able to view it for a little while.
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Selvaria
Selvaria

Tavern Dweller
posted August 09, 2011 12:08 AM

Yeah, the message popped up after awhile and all the AI got stuck, maybe its map specific bug?

I just finished a different map, the greed, and I must say the AI improved a lot from the vanilla AI, I'm seeing my opponent having a lv 20 hero with a big stack! I likes!

Is it a bug that my opponent ignore all my gated creatures? They didn't attack it even its blocking their way, his units just waited forever.
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Markkur
Markkur


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Onward through the fog!
posted August 09, 2011 12:43 PM
Edited by markkur at 12:43, 09 Aug 2011.

Quote:
Yeah, the message popped up after awhile and all the AI got stuck, maybe its map specific bug?


Well, Allies (2v2v2)is a stock game map, so this is odd.

Quote:
I just finished a different map, the greed, and I must say the AI improved a lot from the vanilla AI, I'm seeing my opponent having a lv 20 hero with a big stack! I likes!


Yes, there are times when my Hero is not ranked and there are a least 3 stronger Heroes. That is a very BIG change.

Quote:
Is it a bug that my opponent ignore all my gated creatures? They didn't attack it even its blocking their way, his units just waited forever.


I don't think so. I cannot speak for "Q" but I think it's by design. <iow> part of the A.I. values.  If you and I battled, you may choose to kill my gated but you are not actually doing me any damage. Sort of like when I am in battle, I don't cast a bolt on gated or summoned ghosts, I go after the real ghosts Doesn't that sound funny..."real ghosts"
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zaio-baio
zaio-baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted August 10, 2011 03:35 AM

tried the new AI too, its great, but there are some bugs (i think)
1. Battle griffins dive immediatly
2. Stormwind doesnt work properly ( in 3.1 was -20% init -2 speed, now its -1 init -1 spd )
3. AI plays kinda strange sometimes - huge stack of lvl 6 waits in my moat & some high lvl heroes use stupid spells ( lvl 20 warlock with 20 sp casts basic weakness :X)


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Selvaria
Selvaria

Tavern Dweller
posted August 10, 2011 04:14 AM

Quote:

I don't think so. I cannot speak for "Q" but I think it's by design. <iow> part of the A.I. values.  If you and I battled, you may choose to kill my gated but you are not actually doing me any damage. Sort of like when I am in battle, I don't cast a bolt on gated or summoned ghosts, I go after the real ghosts Doesn't that sound funny..."real ghosts"


I think its a bug, the problem is when they have a melee creature and all the gated creatures block it ways, it should try to break free by attacking the gated creature and then attack my real creatures instead of just waiting, doing nothing and getting massacred by my real archers.
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winterhell
winterhell

Tavern Dweller
posted August 10, 2011 11:21 AM

feedback

Hi,

I was playing 3.1h with my friend on hotseat, random map 8 players. We noticed several things
- AI rarely attacks each other, even if one of them is shown as "low" and the other as "challenging" or "hard" compared to the same hero.
- When in siege battle, the AI waits most of the battle not moving their troops, especially if they are the attacker. They usually do when several walls are down and/or when the enemy is very low on health, and what they do- they jump on the minefield and lose units.
-Resurrect is used rarely, in later stages of the battle, when we have killed maybe more than 80% of the PC player and though we were winning, i find it strange, the PC had plenty of mana.
- Sometimes the Hero will throw useless spells (in the context of the battle), like blessing , and not move the troops, and the same time not attack the single left enemy stack which can be killed with one-two shots. Same thing for their shooters with abilities.
- In the tavern it may show that the AI has a million of gold (that was the case, 7 months into the game), and happen not to buy the population for weeks.  For example i happened to enter the enemy castle only to find it had 16 or so titans and the corresponding army with it , waiting for me to buy it.
- A strong hero which we couldnt kill for some time, didnt summon reinforcements or go to restock their titans etc for months, so I went to his castle and cut the new additions.

Thats all I can remember that I think is AI-related.
Hope this helps,
Regards

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Jantz
Jantz

Tavern Dweller
posted August 10, 2011 12:13 PM
Edited by Jantz at 12:54, 10 Aug 2011.

Quote:
I don't think so. I cannot speak for "Q" but I think it's by design. <iow> part of the A.I. values.  If you and I battled, you may choose to kill my gated but you are not actually doing me any damage. Sort of like when I am in battle, I don't cast a bolt on gated or summoned ghosts, I go after the real ghosts Doesn't that sound funny..."real ghosts"


Oh Come on it's nothing but a BUG! I definitely agree with Selvaria on the matter! AI doesn't seem to know how to fight demons under your control. It underestimates the gated creatures, seeing no threat about them (and that in vain), it's a fact. Yes, they are actually unreal. But on the BATTLEFIELD they are quite real just like any others. They can block ways, archers, they can take enemy's reply for themselves thus letting your real creatures attack getting no reply from an enemy, they can cast and do REAL damage at last! Maybe it doesn't make much sense to go after them all the time, but if u have an opportunity to kill one of them (often with no loss of your own troops), i think u should take advantage of it. Ex. AI tends to keep on relocating its archers from my gated, every turn, over and over again wasting time, just waiting till all its troops are killed.. Does it make any sense? Markkur, if u think it's not a bug just play for inferno a couple of times, u'll understand yourself what we are talking about here.. And Yes, for instance barbarian has the perk called "Back to the void" according to your theory it's a worthless skill?      
P.S. Sorry for my english, it's not my first language..
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Markkur
Markkur


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Onward through the fog!
posted August 10, 2011 02:15 PM

@Selvaria

Sorry, I overlooked that the gated were "blocked". I've answered this before but it was the gated... moving past. I must have Knee-jerked and thought this the same.

@zaio-baio
Quote:
tried the new AI too, its great, but there are some bugs (i think)
1. Battle griffins dive immediatly
2. Stormwind doesnt work properly ( in 3.1 was -20% init -2 speed, now its -1 init -1 spd )
3. AI plays kinda strange sometimes - huge stack of lvl 6 waits in my moat  & some high lvl heroes use
stupid spells ( lvl 20 warlock with 20 sp casts basic weakness :X)


#1 is already listed at the E.E. site (link @ Page-One of this thread)

Thanks for the others. I hope they will be met by the "SES" being currrently worked.


@winterhell
Thanks for taking the time to report your findings. I should remind all here, that I am map-maker and no programmer that's trying to be helpful while "Q" is on his latest code-run. Your feedback is appreciated.

As far as the hot-seat mode, this is only my thought and not gospel. The work that has been done so far is towards single-mission A.I. so, hotseat does have some problems. How far Quantomas will go with this mode of play I don't know, since I know on-line-MP needs a lot more work but no one has stepped forward to help. I am clueless as to where lines could be drawn between hotseat or lan play vs internet warring. I hope Q gets more help for a couple of areas of 5.5

@Jantz

I mis-read what Selvaria posted. I can do this from time to time.
 
Quote:
Sorry for my english, it's not my first language..


No worries Mon. Your English is fine. For the record, I deal with Chronic pain and that can screw-up my comprehension if I don't "slow-down". Sorry for the misunderstanding on my part.
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Selvaria
Selvaria

Tavern Dweller
posted August 11, 2011 06:47 AM

Quote:

- Sometimes the Hero will throw useless spells (in the context of the battle), like blessing


Yeah I noticed this too after awhile, its like their lv 20 heroes are wasting time casting basic spells like suffering, weakness, etc, even when theoretically they gonna lose on the next unit turn.

Warlock heroes didn't have this problem though as their basic spells are useful, therefore I think dungeon AI is the strongest. I actually lost my main stack once against Eruina who seemed to get free attack every turn. LOL. Its only on hard, I guess I sucked.

Btw that gating bug makes Dungeon my favorite faction against AI.
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EnergyMan
EnergyMan

Tavern Dweller
posted August 12, 2011 04:24 AM

Quote:
Btw that gating bug makes Dungeon my favorite faction against AI.

Not Dungeon, but Inferno.
If you manage to get Call of Urgash(Inferno's SA), then you are in fact invulnerable to the enemy!
Quote:
I played the map Allies (2v2v2) and the AI is doing great for awhile, then after some time all the AIs stop doing anything, it just says blue player ponders, teal player ponders, etc. What happened?

I played this map several times and I got this problem too. But I have  got an error and now know that H5_AI Process.exe were crashed(this .exe about which I said, from AI mod).
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Selvaria
Selvaria

Tavern Dweller
posted August 12, 2011 06:47 AM
Edited by Selvaria at 06:49, 12 Aug 2011.

Quote:

Not Dungeon, but Inferno.
If you manage to get Call of Urgash(Inferno's SA), then you are in fact invulnerable to the enemy!


Yeah thats what I mean, my bad


Call of urgash is overpowered, with gated nightmare means no opponent shooter. Evil.
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Markkur
Markkur


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Onward through the fog!
posted August 12, 2011 08:35 AM

To those following E.E.

Quantomas is still "in the lab" on this code-run. I've communicated very briefly with him and will share this comment that he would have you all know;

"any current problems that have rational causes can be corrected".

His other main comment about his current SAS-code was; "his work atm is like trying to blueprint the human ge-nome." It would be worse than that for me. I'm quite happy not thinking much about my fingers past using them to make a landscape in the editor.
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rpgyay
rpgyay


Adventuring Hero
posted August 13, 2011 05:59 PM

Is Quantomas currently just working on the End-Stage or is he fixing bugs or implementing new features as well?

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Markkur
Markkur


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Onward through the fog!
posted August 14, 2011 07:59 AM

rpgyay, as far as I know...he's working on the Strategic-End-Stage only. It is huge task and one that I really cannot comprehend. I know it involves 2nd faction Heroes and that means a lot of path crunching when all of the bonus buildings etc. are in the mix.

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rpgyay
rpgyay


Adventuring Hero
posted August 14, 2011 02:24 PM

Yeah that's something I couldn't imagine trying to do, I do a little programming but nothing fancy like Quantomas is doing.

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Selvaria
Selvaria

Tavern Dweller
posted August 16, 2011 01:08 AM

AI programmer like Q should really be making his own game company.

Turn based strategy games are really rare mostly because its hard to code the AI, for example finding 100 good graphic artists is easier than finding one competent AI coder. AI is the integral part of the game, and making a good AI is tricky, hence making a new sequel of a tbs game incredibly hard, e.g. vanilla H4 are inferior to H3, Warlords 4 inferior to W3, Disciples 3 inferior to Disciples 2. AoW 2 had no sequels, and total war AI is always sloppy and perform poorly before the community start pitching in. Koei literally needs like more than 20 sequels out for their historical sim (Sangokushi and Nobunaga no Yabou) to get their AI done right. What about HoMM? Heroes 5 vanilla AI is downright horrid and the one who made it should be ashamed as Heroes 2 have a much better AI, what makes it worse is that instead of fixing the problem, they made an uninspiring campaign to suit the worthless cheating AI.

What makes it worse is that most gamers don't appreciate good AI, they prefer shooting/slashing mindless pixels, or fooling around with other nerds on their MMO. This in turn create big companies who literally make AI-less fps/action adventure games or the "same sports game every year with updated roster". Yet mindless games like those sells like hotcakes, sometimes I do wonder if some gamers are less intelligent than the AI.

Sooo, appreciate people who makes good AI, not everyone can do it, you need more than just being good at math and programming.
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rpgyay
rpgyay


Adventuring Hero
posted August 16, 2011 10:23 PM

Even if we don't post it, I know we all appreciate what Quantomas is doing.

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siinn
siinn


Adventuring Hero
posted August 23, 2011 06:13 PM

You're right!
Keep the good work going master Q!
We all support you in your task even if we cannot be of any help...

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Nirual
Nirual


Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
posted August 24, 2011 03:31 AM

I generally see a lot of games that seem to focus on graphics and "exciting" features instead of investing in a halfway decent AI.
Instead, they just give it insane advantages.

I recently played a lot of Civ V and I was just baffled by the AI's ineptitude in battle and unit handling in general.
You can even let the AI take over for you for things like scouting and worker assignments... only it sucks at it.
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