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| Thread: H6 Sylvan - Xerox Edition. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted July 07, 2014 12:33 PM |
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I agree Stevie. War Dancers also needs to have something that would make up for his fragility. A 50% chance for no retaliation maybe? He's outclassed by Cerberi in every possible way.
Also Xerox, we really can't make things out of the blue. Ashan still follows the laws of physics, such that, fire still hurts or the sky is blue.
"Women are stronger than men". What do you base it on? Men generally has more muscle mass than women.
Also, I said the mantis female are stronger. Mantis males are faster. It's Steyn who said women mantis should be selected because they're stronger. I mean, if you follow that logic, then all Haven creatures should be male. Just explaining what I meant in my last post.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 07, 2014 12:40 PM |
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Quote:
Also Xerox, we really can't make things out of the blue. Ashan still follows the laws of physics, such that, fire still hurts or the sky is blue.
That statement rings kind of false when you have creatures the size of elephants flying about and breathing fire.
Quote:
"Women are stronger than men". What do you base it on? Men generally has more muscle mass than women.
And where is it described that elves are biologically identical to humans?
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JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted July 07, 2014 12:43 PM |
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MattII said:
Quote:
Actually it's exactly the other way around. The central figures of Sylvan are elves. Pixies, treants and unicorns don't build towns, have kings or hire heroes. They're helpers for the elves, which are practically the blood of the faction. Nothing moves there unless elves move. Prove me wrong with any H5 campaign.
And nothing Academy moves without Wizards, but they got exactly one wizard creature in their faction, so your reasoning is lacking.
The difference is that Academy's creatures are the Wizard's creation.
Putting different creatures in Sylvan just because they have one thing in common, which is they are forest creatures would make a messy faction. Remember Pre-H5 Dungeon?
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JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted July 07, 2014 12:46 PM |
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MattII said:
Quote:
"Women are stronger than men". What do you base it on? Men generally has more muscle mass than women.
And where is it described that elves are biologically identical to humans?
Physics my friend. You should learn physics, it's how our world operates and I believe it's how Ashan operates too.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 07, 2014 12:56 PM |
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Moderator's note
It is, thankfully, not often that I need to intervene in threads in this end of the forum, and hopefully, we can keep it like that in the future! Therefore, I would like to point out that several of you have overstepped the boundaries of good behaviour as laid out in the forum rules, and I'm hereby issuing a general warning not to continue this behaviour.
A couple of guidelines how to succesfully engage in this part of the forum are:
- If you post your personal oppinion on a subject, please accept that others may have a different oppinion. Don't fall back on name-calling or worse if they do.
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I cleaned the thread, and hope the discussion can continue in a constructive manner. If not, topic will be closed for an indeterminate amount of time.
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What will happen now?
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 07, 2014 01:01 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 13:04, 07 Jul 2014.
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JeremiahEmo said:
The difference is that Academy's creatures are the Wizard's creation.
Putting different creatures in Sylvan just because they have one thing in common, which is they are forest creatures would make a messy faction. Remember Pre-H5 Dungeon?
You realise that there's no indication that any non-elf creature (aside the fairies) are smarter than the average dog right? A single dominant race does not require half the creatures in the faction to be of that race, and in fact it's preferable if there aren't, it just plain boring.
JeremiahEmo said:
Physics my friend. You should learn physics, it's how our world operates and I believe it's how Ashan operates too.
So it's physically impossible to have a race where women are stronger than men? better tell that to spotted hyenas, since that exactly how they are. There is exactly nothing in the laws of physics, or even biology that states that males are necessarily larger and more powerful than females.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted July 07, 2014 01:09 PM |
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JeremiahEmo said:
Also, I said the mantis female are stronger. Mantis males are faster. It's Steyn who said women mantis should be selected because they're stronger. I mean, if you follow that logic, then all Haven creatures should be male. Just explaining what I meant in my last post.
Indeed it is logical for the physical human creatures to be male, as is the case in Heroes 5 and 6. I really don't see a problem with the magic creatures being female. Maybe females are more apt with magic than males, or perhaps they are more inclined to study magic because of the male lead in the muscle departement?
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 07, 2014 01:13 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 13:15, 07 Jul 2014.
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It makes no sense to apply the biology or norms of real-life humans to fantasy species. Ashan humans aren't even the same species as RL humans. They didn't evolve, they were created by dragon gods. There's not really anything saying that Ashan human females have a significant physical disadvantage to men.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 07, 2014 01:23 PM |
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///
Agreed, that was an oversight from my part, thought that had already been done. /alci
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JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted July 07, 2014 01:35 PM |
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MattII said:
JeremiahEmo said:
The difference is that Academy's creatures are the Wizard's creation.
Putting different creatures in Sylvan just because they have one thing in common, which is they are forest creatures would make a messy faction. Remember Pre-H5 Dungeon?
You realise that there's no indication that any non-elf creature (aside the fairies) are smarter than the average dog right? A single dominant race does not require half the creatures in the faction to be of that race, and in fact it's preferable if there aren't, it just plain boring.
JeremiahEmo said:
Physics my friend. You should learn physics, it's how our world operates and I believe it's how Ashan operates too.
So it's physically impossible to have a race where women are stronger than men? better tell that to spotted hyenas, since that exactly how they are. There is exactly nothing in the laws of physics, or even biology that states that males are necessarily larger and more powerful than females.
We're talking about the Wood Elves in Ashan. I don't know about other races but Wood Elf males are generally physically stronger than Elf females. Look at the Blood Furies and Matriarchs and compare them to Druids/Hunters/Dancers.
Plus if you mess up with the general consensus of what people originally think by a huge margin, your fantasy won't be as believable.
Sorry alcibiades but I don't think Xerox got what I meant so I'm going to repeat it one more time. Just this last time, please make an exception:
Yes, Ashan is fantasy and is not the real world but it still generally sticks to the same concepts of the real world. Plus, we are talking about Elves. Elf males as proven by any fantasy, whether it be Lord of the Rings, War Craft, Age of Wonders or HoMM is always physically stronger than Elf females.
Now for magic, both can be equal since we're not following the same laws of physics. Preferably, I want elf magic users to still be male since mighty men-magical women combination is traditional and boring but magic is where both genders are on equal footing on Humans and Elves.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 07, 2014 01:42 PM |
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Quote:
Yes, Ashan is fantasy and is not the real world but it still generally sticks to the same concepts of the real world. Plus, we are talking about Elves. Elf males as proven by any fantasy, whether it be Lord of the Rings, War Craft, Age of Wonders or HoMM is always physically stronger than Elf females.
No, it doesn't.
And what other fantasy settings do is irrelevant, Ashan is an original universe.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted July 07, 2014 01:51 PM |
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JeremiahEmo said:
We're talking about the Wood Elves in Ashan. I don't know about other races but Wood Elf males are generally physically stronger than Elf females. Look at the Blood Furies and Matriarchs and compare them to Druids/Hunters/Dancers.
(...) Elf males as proven by any fantasy, whether it be Lord of the Rings, War Craft, Age of Wonders or HoMM is always physically stronger than Elf females.
First of all: Matriarchs > Druids/Hunters/Dancers
Secondly, I am not so familiar with Lord of the Rings, WarCraft or Age of Wonders, but what I remember from all the movies and books I've read is that there are plenty of strong and skilled female elves (in LotR, the Hobbit and D&D for example). Are elves not usually females adept with bow and arrow? ==> Huntresses
As for HoMM, the elves have not been represented by more than one creature untill heroes 5, which did not look that muscular 
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JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted July 07, 2014 02:26 PM |
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Steyn said:
JeremiahEmo said:
We're talking about the Wood Elves in Ashan. I don't know about other races but Wood Elf males are generally physically stronger than Elf females. Look at the Blood Furies and Matriarchs and compare them to Druids/Hunters/Dancers.
(...) Elf males as proven by any fantasy, whether it be Lord of the Rings, War Craft, Age of Wonders or HoMM is always physically stronger than Elf females.
First of all: Matriarchs > Druids/Hunters/Dancers
Secondly, I am not so familiar with Lord of the Rings, WarCraft or Age of Wonders, but what I remember from all the movies and books I've read is that there are plenty of strong and skilled female elves (in LotR, the Hobbit and D&D for example). Are elves not usually females adept with bow and arrow? ==> Huntresses
As for HoMM, the elves have not been represented by more than one creature untill heroes 5, which did not look that muscular
Well, I really don't understand how Matriarchs became a level 6 creature. It took a long time for me and my friends to actually take Matriarchs seriously as a strong creature and I'm sure many else did.
It is small and fragile and not even the intimidating cool-type creature but it is hard to kill. I'm not hating, I'm just stating facts.
My point is if you mess with reality too much, people won't take your fantasy seriously.
Take Naruto for example (I don't know how many of you watch anime here). It twists the view of reality like the concept of chakra. However, physics is still a big part of winning battles, which is why it's the most popular anime. It sticked to people's general consensus of reality.
You're confusing LoTR Elves with something else. I can hardly find any female Elves in LoTR and the Hobbit. The only warrior she-Elf I know are Arwen and that Sylvan girl from Legolas' kingdom. Both of which were not part of the books and only created just for the sake of having women on the show. Galadriel is the only female Elf that exist in both the movies and the books and she's more of a mystique than a she-warrior.
And did you know that a War Bow is much different than a Sports Bow? A War Bow requires a much stronger upper body strength to actually get some good distance to do damage on the battlefield. It would be extremely rare for a woman to do some serious damage with a real War Bow.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted July 07, 2014 02:50 PM |
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Edited by Steyn at 14:52, 07 Jul 2014.
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How are leather clad dominatrixes, whipping you around and shooting balls of thunder, not intimidating? Though I have to agree that 6th tier might have been a bit high.
I would be really surprised if the laws of physics has anything to do with the populartity of Naruto. Most likely it has more to do with the good storyline and awesome moves/battles.
Can you explain me how a war bow (never heard of this type of bow) would be different from a sports bow? The distance an arrow flies is dependent on its speed, which is derived from the force exerted on it by the pulled back bowstring. Seems to me this is the same for all bows. Maybe differences in construction make the one havier than the other, but you would need the same amount of force for the same distance.
I would estimate the chances of an untrained woman to do real damage with your war bow to be fairly equal to that of an untrained man.
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JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted July 07, 2014 03:11 PM |
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Steyn said:
How are leather clad dominatrixes, whipping you around and shooting balls of thunder, not intimidating? Though I have to agree that 6th tier might have been a bit high.
I would be really surprised if the laws of physics has anything to do with the populartity of Naruto. Most likely it has more to do with the good storyline and awesome moves/battles.
Can you explain me how a war bow (never heard of this type of bow) would be different from a sports bow? The distance an arrow flies is dependent on its speed, which is derived from the force exerted on it by the pulled back bowstring. Seems to me this is the same for all bows. Maybe differences in construction make the one havier than the other, but you would need the same amount of force for the same distance.
I would estimate the chances of an untrained woman to do real damage with your war bow to be fairly equal to that of an untrained man.
I'm guessing it probably has something to do with speed and distance. That's my 2 cents. Anyway, I don't think women are equal to men on a physical standpoint especially upper body strength. Hey, not hating, just stating the obvious. Assuming both has the same level of training, none or very close and are both athletic, a man will almost all of the time do better than a woman. Honestly, it's very rare for women to do good on the battlefield. What famous female generals did we have? Boudicca? Joan of Arc? and probably a few others but they're very few in numbers compared to men.
And I use war bow only to differentiate it from a sports bow. It's not some special name for bows or anything.
Actually, the laws of physics has most to do with the popularity of Naruto. I've heard so many people from real life and the forums saying "I like Naruto because battles has some sense into it. They didn't create just anything out of the blue" or something like that. Come on, let's be realistic here. If Naruto has a very good storyline but they add just any flavor to their so-called fantasy like say.. Naruto's fast growth of power is done in one day without any explanation other than he's a superior human being, it would turn a lot of people off.
And leather clad dominatrix is good for pleasure between our legs but taking them seriously on the battlefield? Uhmm, not so much. A level 3 or level 4 creature would fit them. A level 6 is too far.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 07, 2014 04:13 PM |
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I will just drop this here  Poor D&D, not popular enough.
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LucPatenaude
Famous Hero
Owning all 7 Heroes games
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posted July 07, 2014 06:38 PM |
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Let's not mix both distinct factions of elves, shall we?
Because of the ancient Ethics of the Sylvan traditions, strong, violent and, large women are forbidden to enter military service within the ranks of the gloriously male predominance of the Sylvan Army. Only a very small creature that dwells within the holy tree of Sylanna is permitted to be used as annoyance + fodder towards the many powerful ranks of any other enemy faction.
The reason being of the existance and formation of the Dungeon faction's tradition is from the constant extradition and, banishment of all of these elves that can not be subdued or calmed down. Swordsmanship for male/female elves and, dominatrix/spell casting like females were, only accepted + welcomed under Raelag's guidance. Heroines then, suddenly started to come to an obvious reality as some of them proved able enough to learn and, grow via battle experience into intellectual intelligence for both mana and spellpower. Evil intention and, murderous intent grew within their society. The Satsui No Hado(Dark Hado Power) is not so harmful to their dark elven heritage's bodies and mind. Sorcery comes natural to them, not to the Sylvan Elves(Pure of Heart and Mind).
Do hope that gets to clarify a lot when it comes to destinguish both totally different types of Ashan's Elven factions.
Have a wonderful start of the week everyone.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 07, 2014 06:59 PM |
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LucPatenaude said:
The Satsui No Hado(Dark Hado Power) is not so harmful to their dark elven heritage's bodies and mind. Sorcery comes natural to them, not to the Sylvan Elves(Pure of Heart and Mind).
LOL!
Speaking of which, machinima made a street fighter mini series of 12 episodes. Recommended, here's a trailer for your viewing pleasure.
Please use the wastelands if you want to further discuss this though, this thread has been derailed enough
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 07, 2014 09:25 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 21:26, 07 Jul 2014.
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Well I'm out of here, it's quite clear that Jerry here can't get past his male-chauvinistic view of the world far enough to see (A) Ashan is not the real-world, (B) Elves are not human, (C) his own views are contradicted by both actual history and historical fantasy.
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JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted July 08, 2014 03:12 AM |
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Hey, you called me names. You hurt my feelings and you're breaking the rules.
Anyway, you keep ignoring my point over and over again. In Ashan, roses are still red and violets are still blue, you know what I mean?
Gravity still makes apples fall and fire can still hurt you. You can't just make anything just because you feel like it, you have to base most of it from the real world.
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