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| Thread: Right to Self Defense, Gun Ownership, and Deterence of Crime |  This thread is pages long: 1 10 20 ... 25 26 27 28 29 ... 30 40 50 55 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Doomforge
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posted August 21, 2012 07:41 PM |
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While Elodin is right on the knife (don't ever underestimate one), 46 bullets just shows that those officers panicked. And if they did, they should not be in the Police, for the sake of anyone they will come in contact with in the future. We really don't need trigger-happy nervous people serving in the Police, do we?
I'd say fire them and get people who don't need to empty their clip at the sight of danger. Wasn't one bullet enough for that kind of situation?
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JollyJoker
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posted August 21, 2012 08:29 PM |
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He probably still held the knife defiantly in a threatening way after the first couple of salvoes.
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Elodin
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posted August 22, 2012 02:53 PM |
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Let's ban coffee mugs.
Clicky
Quote:
A professional tennis referee from Los Angeles was arrested Tuesday in New York City on a felony warrant charging her with killing her elderly husband in April.
Prosecutors said 70-year-old Lois Ann Goodman, a longtime top referee on the tennis circuit, was taken into custody as she prepared to work at the U.S. Open tournament.
She was charged with murdering her 80-year-old husband, Alan Goodman, in their home in Woodland Hills, Calif. Prosecutors allege she bludgeoned him to death with a coffee mug on April 17.
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Corribus
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posted August 22, 2012 02:57 PM |
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Wow, now that's gotta take persistence!
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Adrius
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posted August 22, 2012 02:58 PM |
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The difference being that guns are designed to hurt/kill while a coffee mug is designed to allow you to drink coffee.
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OmegaDestroyer
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posted August 22, 2012 03:13 PM |
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I wondered if she stopped for a coffee break during the bludgeoning?
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Elodin
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posted August 22, 2012 03:28 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 15:29, 22 Aug 2012.
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Quote:
The difference being that guns are designed to hurt/kill while a coffee mug is designed to allow you to drink coffee.
Guns are designed for hunting, recreation, self-defense, and conducting war. Guns are not designed for murder.
I can use virtually any object to murder someone. That does not mean that such objects need to be banned or regulated by the government.
If a person wants to kill someone they are going to do it even though it is against the law to do so. The law can't stop someone from murdering another person. The law can't even stop a person from murdering another person with a "prohibited" item. A person owning a gun will not turn them into a murderer any more than owning a coffee cup will turn a person into a murderer. Guns and coffee cups are merely tools.
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Salamandre
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posted August 22, 2012 03:32 PM |
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Quote:
Guns are designed for conducting war. Guns are not designed for murder.
Yeah, food is for eat, food is not for consummation
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Elodin
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posted August 22, 2012 03:39 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Guns are designed for conducting war. Guns are not designed for murder.
Yeah, food is for eat, food is not for consummation
If you are going to quote me, please quote my entire sentence rather than leaving out parts in the middle or without any "...."s or anything else to show you deleted part of what I said. Thanks.
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Zenofex
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posted August 22, 2012 03:40 PM |
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Consider the impact of this story on the policemen - the coffee mug is now a lethal weapon and waving it around might lead to a preventive salvo of 20-30 bullets in the offender's direction.
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Adrius
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posted August 22, 2012 03:40 PM |
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Quote:
Guns are designed for hunting
Killing animals.
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recreation
Uh, practicing killing.
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self-defense
Hurting/killing others so they don't hurt/kill you.
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and conducting war.
Making love. I mean hurt/kill.
That's not a coffee mug man, that's a tool meant to fire a projectile into flesh.
Where do you draw the line anyway? Would you mind if I practiced my little hobby of constructing air fuel bombs for recreational patriotic fourth of july fireworks for all the neighbourhood children?
I promise I won't use it to overthrow your government.
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smithey
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posted August 23, 2012 11:38 PM |
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I think they should require people to take a non-generic psych evaluation, maybe even an IQ test, if you pass those two you can apply for a license, that would be reasonable to me
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Shyranis
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posted August 24, 2012 06:39 AM |
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Guns just need to be treated like cars or motorcycles, you just have to show you're mature enough to handle it and get retested occasionally.
Why aren't knives treated that way? Well, let's see you make a jungle shack with a gun instead of a knife, or skin a fish/deer or carve a lifelike statue using a gun =) The knife has more non-killing uses.
Why do I support licensing guns? Because it takes away about any valid excuse the "loony liberals" have for taking them away. Gets 'em right in the gut.
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disturbed-gnu
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posted August 27, 2012 10:38 AM |
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Should people be allowed to carry fire arms?
Rules in DK: No.
Own Opinion: No. Making it legal would cause many many more violent episodes on the streets.
Should people be allowed to have fire arms in their house?
Rules in DK: Normally no! Unless they're hunters with certificate. The law states that you can have firearms for hunting in a so called "Weapons locker".
Own Opinion: The same as the danish rule above..
Does gun possession by an innocent person help prevent that person from being a victim?
Rules in DK: He/she becomes a victim of the law, if he/she carrys a gun.
Own Opinion: No! Fighting fire with fire creates more fire!
Should a person have the right to defend himself?
Rules in DK: If you can defend yourself without causing injury on the robber, then yes. But even if the robber uses a knife or gun, you take a risk as victim if you choose to punch him. If the robber just takes the punch and the victim can hold him down until the police arrives, then its okay. But if the punch causes the robber to fall and die or get injured, then you are in bigger trouble as a victim than the robber.
Own Opinion: I hate this rule big time. I think if a robber is at your house only to steal your possesions, you should be allowed to knock him down with a bat or anything that a weak person could knock the robber out with. Then tie him up and call the police..
The idea of not being able to defend yourself because the law says so, is so stupid..
It often happends that eastern europeans comes to denmark to rob. They often kill on sight because the punishment they get if caught is ridiculus! And they don't care about the age of thoose they stab or shoot. So at that point, i think we should be allowed knocking them out with whatever we can find.
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OhforfSake
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posted August 27, 2012 10:57 AM |
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Quote:
But if the punch causes the robber to fall and die or get injured, then you are in bigger trouble as a victim than the robber.
If the robber gets injured, it'll not be punished as hard as the burglery.
Violence is usually punished much less severe, if not entirely ignored, compared to, e.g. money theft. Money theft, i.e. thievery, is punished much less severe, than money theft under threat, i.e. robbery.
A burglar who meets his victim and gets himself into a struggle, will most likely be convicted of robbery, unless the victim actually assaults the robber.
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Own Opinion: I hate this rule big time. I think if a robber is at your house only to steal your possesions, you should be allowed to knock him down with a bat or anything that a weak person could knock the robber out with. Then tie him up and call the police..
The idea of not being able to defend yourself because the law says so, is so stupid..
The thing is, people, in my opinion, are usually so simple minded that the only way they can imagine preparing for, and fighting back against, an intruder, is to use violence.
Even a thoughtful and intelligent guy like Corribus ended up contemplating if he should have a gun in his home to defend his familiy.
The fact is though, there are many non-violant ways of which you can defend your "castle", which will be much more effective than dangerous weapons.
After all, there's a reason why the best protected places in the world aren't merely made up by a couple of guys with guns in their pockets.
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It often happends that eastern europeans comes to denmark to rob. They often kill on sight because the punishment they get if caught is ridiculus!
Often!? What's your source? The murder rate in your country is incredible low and usually more due to domnestic violence, and gang wars, than due to immigrants or foreign visitors. Often gives me the impression you'll several times a year have cases where eastern europeans have murdered someone.
However in reality, the majority of eastern europeans who comes here are because a job here pays much more than in their own country, even after taxes. Then they buy stuff in their own country. The pay difference is so big that it's worthwhile to travel a few thousand kilometers, and work for a pay below the minimum in your country.
The few percentage of eastern europeans (and people from other countries in the world) who travels through countries and tries to live by taking others possesion are obviously a problem for every country in the world, but it should come to no surprise that there are people who're acting worse than other people. Even these people, however, do not "kill on sight". They're not stupid barbarians, who cannot realise that if they do the minimum amount of crime required for their goals, then given they'll be caught, they'll get out so much faster, or off so much easier.
The usual politic, in your country, I believe, is to ban foreigners who behave in this manner, but when you go ahead and kill someone, you won't get a ban, you'll get a prison sentence. Heck you might be send to other european countries with even worse jails, if you're an international criminal.
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disturbed-Gnu
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posted August 27, 2012 10:15 PM |
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Quote:
Violence is usually punished much less severe, if not entirely ignored, compared to, e.g. money theft. Money theft, i.e. thievery, is punished much less severe, than money theft under threat, i.e. robbery.
A burglar who meets his victim and gets himself into a struggle, will most likely be convicted of robbery, unless the victim actually assaults the robber.
Nope! Here the punishment is equal if not on the advantage of the burglar if he gets injuredduring self defence.
Quote:
The thing is, people, in my opinion, are usually so simple minded that the only way they can imagine preparing for, and fighting back against, an intruder, is to use violence.
Even a thoughtful and intelligent guy like Corribus ended up contemplating if he should have a gun in his home to defend his familiy.
The fact is though, there are many non-violant ways of which you can defend your "castle", which will be much more effective than dangerous weapons.
After all, there's a reason why the best protected places in the world aren't merely made up by a couple of guys with guns in their pockets.
How? The same question is debated here DK at my work. Call them all narrow minded, but we all agree that self defence is violence bacuse its the only thing that keeps them away the next time, or prevents them from going to the next house.
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Often!? What's your source? The murder rate in your country is incredible low and usually more due to domnestic violence, and gang wars, than due to immigrants or foreign visitors. Often gives me the impression you'll several times a year have cases where eastern europeans have murdered someone.
However in reality, the majority of eastern europeans who comes here are because a job here pays much more than in their own country, even after taxes. Then they buy stuff in their own country. The pay difference is so big that it's worthwhile to travel a few thousand kilometers, and work for a pay below the minimum in your country.
The few percentage of eastern europeans (and people from other countries in the world) who travels through countries and tries to live by taking others possesion are obviously a problem for every country in the world, but it should come to no surprise that there are people who're acting worse than other people. Even these people, however, do not "kill on sight". They're not stupid barbarians, who cannot realise that if they do the minimum amount of crime required for their goals, then given they'll be caught, they'll get out so much faster, or off so much easier.
The usual politic, in your country, I believe, is to ban foreigners who behave in this manner, but when you go ahead and kill someone, you won't get a ban, you'll get a prison sentence. Heck you might be send to other european countries with even worse jails, if you're an international criminal.
True! I ment often in the way that, when a murder happends, it is often home-robbery. Then gang violence, and immigrants killing for honor..
Oh dear, no no no.. Ofcourse many eatern europeans comes for jobs! But just as many if not more, only drives up here to steal. And that is a fact well known by my fellow danes in Jylland (The part thats connected to germany)..
Hehe, we have a saying: exaggeration promotes understanding (If translated right).. Its not often, but gain, it happends... In my country a knife stab makes the frontpage, while it is a everyday problem in other countrys.
I wrote this beause i don't agree with most of you..
I think it should be legal to defend yourself at your proberty with non lethal weapons, but still with violence.
How can you defend your proberty without? Cameras? Fences? How?
And wouldn't it just send the thief to the next house?
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Doomforge
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posted August 27, 2012 10:24 PM |
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In general, prevention is better than healing. In medicine, and in self defense.
Unless you're insanely rich, having alarm system (at least in Poorland) is usually enough to make thieves look for a different target.
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OhforfSake
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posted August 28, 2012 09:24 PM |
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Quote:
Ofcourse many eatern europeans comes for jobs! But just as many if not more, only drives up here to steal. And that is a fact [...]
What I think is most upsetting about this... bigotry, is that your country not only openly invites eastern european citizens, but the main reason for its financial wealth is due to eastern europeans. They left the safety of home and family when they accepted your invitation to come and work for you. Thanks to them, your country was restored from its financial crisis. Maybe if there weren't this hostility towards people who doesn't look like you, you'd be restored from your current financial crisis as well?
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Zenofex
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posted August 28, 2012 11:09 PM |
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I don't quite understand what's the logic behind "someone goes abroad to steal". Can't he do it at home? Is there any advertisement that says "come in our country, it's easier to steal here than in yours, the per-robbery income is higher and will compensate you for the travel expenses"? Or these people just pick countries without police? It sounds like a well-organised campaign for Gastarbeiter...I mean Gasteinbrecher workforce.
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del_diablo
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posted August 28, 2012 11:44 PM |
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Well, to Poland... they are dirt poor. And EU regulations also means there is suppose to be no internal borders. And by chance, Denmark is a wealthy country, which is roughly on the border to Poland(not that far off). So basically a combination of extreme poverty and a easy target created the situation.
There is actually a reason why the DPP is going for reimposing border control. No idea if it has been implented yet.
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