|
|
Perji
Known Hero
Necromancer
|
posted February 17, 2002 04:08 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Perji, better half damage at long range than no damage at long range.
I think this only goes for non-level 7 troops. But talking about dragons, there's no place on the battlefield they don't have damage. Full. And using Haste (Mass Haste even better), there are other creatures that have full damage anywhere on the battlefield. Not to mention Tactics and other cool stuff. So Titans are amongst the weakest lev7 troops. The only cool thing about them is that 300 HP. Compared to 175 for Chaos Hydra or 150 for ArchDevil, seems pretty much.
But ShadowLord, Titans weren't gods. According to the greek mithology, they were gods' children, together with cyclopes, giants and some others.
And Cat, you being the queen of black dragons, don't you have a sister or something, like queen of the ghost dragons? I'm looking for a girlfriend, you know..... 
____________
Things go wrong because people build walls instead of bridges
|
|
Cat
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Gonna Get Dirrty...
|
|
posted February 17, 2002 05:36 PM |
|
|
|
StormWarning
Promising
Famous Hero
Archmage of Thunder
|
|
posted February 18, 2002 05:14 AM |
|
|
Quote:
I think this only goes for non-level 7 troops. But talking about dragons, there's no place on the battlefield they don't have damage. Full. And using Haste (Mass Haste even better), there are other creatures that have full damage anywhere on the battlefield.
Yes, but they have to move up to attack, and most of them (not Archdevils or Hydras) take full damage in return, whereas the Titan can hit about half the battlefield for full damage with no retaliation and the other half for half damage with no retaliation. ADs and Chaos Hydras both have major weaknesses, though, that the Titan doesn't (poor health for ADs, Hydras are too sloooooow, and neither has high base damage scores for a level 7).
Edit: All told, the range ability is a benefit, although it's not very useful against other level 7s since they can get across in one turn. It has no disadvantage, though, since melee damage is still full.
____________
The calm before the storm is about to end.
|
|
Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
|
|
posted February 18, 2002 02:38 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I think this only goes for non-level 7 troops. But talking about dragons, there's no place on the battlefield they don't have damage. Full.
ya but when drags attack opp has the chance to retaliate, u cant retaliate on a shot from titans. And u can keep those titans protected so the drags wont be able to reach them anyway.
Quote:
And using Haste (Mass Haste even better), there are other creatures that have full damage anywhere on the battlefield.
Ya but that costs you a spell, and u dont know if opponent has mass slow so he can kill ya off easy next round.
Quote:
Not to mention Tactics and other cool stuff. So Titans are amongst the weakest lev7 troops. The only cool thing about them is that 300 HP. Compared to 175 for Chaos Hydra or 150 for ArchDevil, seems pretty much.
Chaos hydra has 250hp and Arch Devils 200, but if u think that titans suck u still miss the point.
/Stefan
|
|
Cat
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Gonna Get Dirrty...
|
|
posted February 18, 2002 04:16 PM |
|
|
Not necessarily so- if you attack a creature NEXT to a titan with a black dragon, if you get the angle right you will damage the titans (at extra damage) as well.
____________
 Diwethaf Gloau Sylw y Gymreag
http://aozos.com/phpBB2/index.php
|
|
Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
|
|
posted February 18, 2002 06:28 PM |
|
|
Thats why u never put a one hex unit next to the Titans when u defend them 
/Stefan
|
|
Perji
Known Hero
Necromancer
|
|
posted February 18, 2002 09:22 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Ya but that costs you a spell, and u dont know if opponent has mass slow so he can kill ya off easy next round.
Well, there's a bug in the game that allows you to cast two spells in one turn, and I always use it. So there's no loss for me.
Quote:
Chaos hydra has 250hp and Arch Devils 200
What patch is that where you found these stats? My game shows the ones I've written.
And yes, I still think the Titans are no match for Dragons. Any type of them.
____________
Things go wrong because people build walls instead of bridges
|
|
StormWarning
Promising
Famous Hero
Archmage of Thunder
|
|
posted February 18, 2002 09:56 PM |
|
|
Quote:
And yes, I still think the Titans are no match for Dragons. Any type of them.
If you mean one-on-one, you're very, very wrong. As I said earlier, a Titan and a Gold Dragon are almost an even match, with the Titan having about a 46% chance of winning on neutral ground. Against BDs, both kill on the 5th turn on average, although either one has a chance at a 4th turn kill (BD 24%, Titan 45%), giving the Titan about a 42% chance of winning on neutral ground. (These aren't exact, but it's a reasonable estimate.) Against Ghost Dragons, it's not even close unless the Titans get aged - Titans drop them in 3 hits with average or better damage, and Ghost Dragons need 8 or 9 hits to drop a Titan. Even aged, the Titan will win most of the time.
If you mean in combat with heroes and spellcasters, the above stands except in the case of BDs (who can't be nailed with Implosion). In a one-on-one with spellcasters, they might be in trouble because the Dragons go first, but in a full-scale combat only the BD has a significant advantage - some other troop will survive long enough for the Titans' hero to Implode the Gold or Ghost Dragons.
____________
The calm before the storm is about to end.
|
|
Perji
Known Hero
Necromancer
|
|
posted February 18, 2002 10:11 PM |
|
|
Come on....
Man, you know darn well that 1 on 1 is crap. There's no way of fighting 1 on 1. And so it all comes to heroes, thei skills, and their artifacts. And here, the best hero wins. Check out the last post in "Best level 7 creature thread" and you'll see what I mean. The purpose of this thread wasn't the best level 7, but the fact that Titans are better or worse because of their archery. Some said better, some said worse, most of them said better, but I still think that it's a bad thing to have them as archers. Then again, after all it's all about balancing the towns' strengths and weaknesses.
____________
Things go wrong because people build walls instead of bridges
|
|
Cat
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Gonna Get Dirrty...
|
|
posted February 18, 2002 10:29 PM |
|
|
Although it could easily be argued that titans *must* be weaker purely because of their archery, surely? For instance, it is fair that chaos hydra's have so many HP's as they are slow as anything- by the time they get to the middle of the field, the battles over! lol! 
____________
Diwethaf Gloau Sylw y Gymreag
http://aozos.com/phpBB2/index.php
|
|
Thunder
Responsible
Famous Hero
|
|
posted February 18, 2002 11:08 PM |
|
|
Titans can be resurrected, Black or Gold Dragons not. So when your Black Dragons are down they also stay down, Gold Dragons may get alive via to Sacrifice but Rampart can't get that spell from their guild. Titans can be Blessed, Cloned, Stone Skinned, etc, while Black or Gold Dragons not. Yes, they can be Imploded but that is a 5th level spell and not always available. There are other damage spells able to harm Titans but none of them can harm them as Implosion. Titan's can't be Berserked or Blinded like Arch Angels for instance. But resistance helps there and while Wizards can't get it (without map makers help at least), Alchemists can (of course you don't have to rely on native heroes).
Stormwarning, may you explain why that Gold Dragon has to wait in round three in order to win that Titan? Doesn't make much sense to me.
More later (if needed).
____________
|
|
sos
Known Hero
|
|
posted February 18, 2002 11:16 PM |
|
Edited By: sos on 18 Feb 2002
|
|
Gold dragons cant be resurreced with sacrifice (in the latest patch), because resurrection is considered a level 4 spell and golds are imune to level 1-4. They can be used as a sacrificed stack to resurrect another unit (I dont know who will do that tho). I consider golds inferior to blacks, because they can be imploded, and the only benefitial spell that can be cast on golds is magic mirror, which is not as good.
|
|
Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
|
|
posted February 19, 2002 09:14 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Well, there's a bug in the game that allows you to cast two spells in one turn, and I always use it. So there's no loss for me.
As u said yourself: its a bug: Get the latest patch. U cant discuss things while using bugs as arguments. (which is removed in later patches btw)
Quote:
Quote:
Chaos hydra has 250hp and Arch Devils 200
What patch is that where you found these stats? My game shows the ones I've written.
There i have found "these" stats, and i have a feeling u will to if u start your game
Edit: i took these pics from www.h3trio.com, the stats are correct but the "growth" seem weird tho.
Go here for correct growth info if u are interested:
http://www.strategyplanet.com/homm/inferno.shtml
and
http://www.strategyplanet.com/homm/fortress.shtml
Quote:
And yes, I still think the Titans are no match for Dragons. Any type of them.
Quote:
Man, you know darn well that 1 on 1 is crap. There's no way of fighting 1 on 1. And so it all comes to heroes, thei skills, and their artifacts. And here, the best hero wins. Check out the last post in "Best level 7 creature thread" and you'll see what I mean.
Now you are saying against yourself, first u say that drags can beat titans whatever condition. Then 2 posts later in the same thread you say that it all comes down too heroes&skills.
To me its the skills&spells and so on that matters which 7th lvl that is the best for that moment. Right now i think i prefer black drags over titans in general, i have never liked those gold drags tho
/Stefan
|
|
StormWarning
Promising
Famous Hero
Archmage of Thunder
|
|
posted February 19, 2002 10:58 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Stormwarning, may you explain why that Gold Dragon has to wait in round three in order to win that Titan? Doesn't make much sense to me.
Here's why:
Round 1
Gold Dragon attacks Titan, Titan retaliates. (1 hit each)
Titan attacks GD, GD retaliates. (2 hits each)
Round 2
Same as above, now 4 hits each.
Round 3 - option A
GD attacks, Titan retaliates. 5 hits is never enough for a GD to take out a Titan, even with max damage.
Titan attacks. On average, the 6th hit is enough to take down the GD (though not always - about a 77% chance, though).
Round 3 - option B
GD waits.
Titan attacks. About 35% of the time this attack will kill the GD, but if it doesn't, the GD retaliates.
GD now attacks, with about a 65% chance of killing the Titan. If it does not, the Titan will probably kill it on the retaliation.
The key is that the 5th attack will never kill a Titan, and it can usually survive the 5th attack by a Titan. So whoever gets the 6th attack first has a better chance to win. By waiting, the GD gets that 6th attack first.
____________
The calm before the storm is about to end.
|
|
Perji
Known Hero
Necromancer
|
posted February 19, 2002 11:17 PM |
|
Edited By: Perji on 19 Feb 2002
|
Yes yes
Ok, you've made your point. Ok, then I'm not gonna discuss bugs from now on. Though I like this one. It's true that magic immunity works both ways, but I still prefer dragons or firebirds to Titans. I prefer magic rather than might, so that says it all. Besides, if you come to think about it, Tower is a magic-oriented town. So we come to the balancing part. There are some powerfull spells, and the fact that you can them easier in the tower is balanced by the weakness of it's troops. Think about it. There's 3 archers, the golems and the gargoyles can't be considered as attack troops, one because of it's speed and the other because it's too weak. The genies cast beneficial spells, and only the nagas are a true force. So this pretty much seems to me like a town that uses magic a lot, the army is mainly made of archers, and the hand-to-hand combat troops are there just to protect the archers. That's my point.
Oh, yeah, about those Hydras and Devils, try taking a look at their HP as Hydras and Devils, not Chaos Hydras and ArchDevils. I was talking about those. Yessss, I KNOW what I've written there, but that wasn't what I ment. Sorry for the incovenience, but it wasn't ment to be.
Quote:
Now you are saying against yourself, first u say that drags can beat titans whatever condition. Then 2 posts later in the same thread you say that it all comes down too heroes&skills.
I didn't say "whatever the condition", I said any type of dragons there. And "whatever the condition" anyway would mean whatever hero and skills he/she has.
Quote:
To me its the skills&spells and so on that matters which 7th lvl that is the best for that moment. Right now i think i prefer black drags over titans in general, i have never liked those gold drags tho
I see you've got the same point of view as I do, after all.
Hehe
____________
Things go wrong because people build walls instead of bridges
|
|
DVZ
Known Hero
|
|
posted February 20, 2002 02:23 AM |
|
|
Titans are better ranged or not? Who has time, or affords for that matter, Titans?
I have no idea why people dismiss and underestimate Giants so much. They're really the true Gem of Tower troops (well after they took away the Gremlin rush).
Their dwelling's the cheapest and they're decent troops with excellent damage that can rival most of the un-upgraded troops.
Playing Tower, you will have to be fast! Horde of Master Gremlins, a few Master Genies, plus Giants are best-suited for blitz attack! No time for Titans!
But to answer the question, of course Titans are better ranged. It's perfect with the Force Field spell when fighting insurmountable armies. [Hexa can be my witness, hehe ]
|
|
Perji
Known Hero
Necromancer
|
|
posted February 26, 2002 02:33 PM |
|
|
Well, Stiven, I see you agree with me.
____________
Things go wrong because people build walls instead of bridges
|
|
destro23
Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
|
|
posted February 27, 2002 08:52 PM |
|
|
Just for the Record...
Have you ever tried to play a tower battle with a good might hero and a red orb of inhibition
you will see the true might and lack of need for spells in this situation.. Titans reign here.
-----------------
The Dead WalK!!!
|
|
andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
|
|
posted February 27, 2002 10:38 PM |
|
|
|
you are so wrong stormwarning, a gold dragon always beats a titan 1on1 no matter what, it has 27 att/def to titans 24/24
|
|
sos
Known Hero
|
|
posted February 27, 2002 10:59 PM |
|
|
hm
that's not how I see it.
Titans do on average 46 damage, so they need 5.43 hits to kill a goldie.
Goldies do 52 damage so they need 5.77 hits to kill a titan.
It's pretty close, but Titans are a bit better. On average both creature need 6 hits to kill and if goldies attack first, titans retaliate, and so on, then titans will get that sixth hit
|
| |
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
