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| Thread: H6 - Stats and calculations |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV |
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Gweret
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 11, 2011 07:51 PM |
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Well the trend is also valid for celestial BUT it is pushed more on the "right" because of this static factor +40(celestial def), not +10(pretorian def).
For cores static factor is lower so we see these numbers faster.
What does it mean?
For core vs the same core better is to go for equal damage and defense.
But your champion will do less damage AGAINST the same champion of enemy.
For Champion vs the same Champion it depends how many attributes hero can have. Only for very high attributes above given champion(twice that much) defense, equal hero champion will be better but this wont be in reach in most games.
The damage of hero who is putting only in damage will be less "reduced" than damage of hero who is putting equally in defense and in attack.
It means that "attack only" hero champion will do more damage.
As for elites, it depends how much defense elite have, the higher defense the better is to put in attack, and opposite the lower defense the better is to go "equal hero".
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted October 28, 2011 01:11 PM |
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Just some stats for Heroes VI patch 1.1.1 for people to vibe with:
Factions compared to each other base average stats (adding all 7 creature stats dividing by 7) (downgrade / upgrade):
Hit points:
Highest = Orc (93 / 102)
2nd = Haven (85 / 94)
3rd = Necro (84 / 90)
4th = Inferno (82 / 89)
Lowest = Naga (76 / 83) (makes sense with racial ability)
Top creature = Enraged Cyclops (350)
Initiative:
Highest = Naga (44 / 49)
2nd = Inferno (39 / 44)
3rd = Orc (39 / 43)
4th = Haven (32 / 37)
Lowest = Necro (31 / 36)
Top creature = Sacred Kirin (60)
Luck:
Highest = Inferno (9 / 10) (obviously, with racial!)
2nd/3rd/4th = Haven/Necro/Naga (7 / 7)
Lowest = Orc (6 / 7)
Top creature = Demented / Lacerator / Sacred Kirin (12)
Morale:
Highest = Haven (9 / 10) (obviously, with racial!)
2nd = Naga (7 / 7)
3rd = Orc (6 / 7)
4th = Inferno (4 / 5)
Lowest = Necro (0 / 0)
Top creature = Vestal / Sun Crusader / Seraph / Celestial (12)
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 28, 2011 01:53 PM |
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The average hit points makes no sense. They need to do some balancing there for the next patch.
It makes zero sense for Haven and Necropolis with all their healing and survivability abilities to be that high up.
I think the list should look more like this:
1. Inferno (frontline offensive fighters with no healing)
- Frontline offensive army with two shooters, one of them gets easily blocked all the time. They do not have any healing at all.
2. Stronghold.
- Also frontline offensive fighters but they got more shooters than Inferno, and their 2 big shooters can both counter blocks.
3. Sanctuary.
- Sure, they got the buff but when you look at the survivability of Haven and Necropolis, then it makes no sense for them to be at the bottom.
4. Haven.
- They got two powerful Creature heals and a racial that ensures that one of their creatures get immortal every turn. 2 shooters, if you count the Glory as one and the Glory can not be blocked.
5. Necropolis
- Necromancy, Ghosts, Vampires and THREE shooters that can all be protected by a very strong wall of Ghosts and Vampires. It makes no sense for them to have a lot of hit points.
The other stats seem fine to me.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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odium
Known Hero
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posted October 28, 2011 02:14 PM |
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Edited by odium at 14:19, 28 Oct 2011.
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Quote:
Just some stats for Heroes VI patch 1.1.1 for people to vibe with:
Factions compared to each other base average stats (adding all 7 creature stats dividing by 7) (downgrade / upgrade):
Hit points:
For hit points you have to take growth into account in some way for the data to have some meaning. Therefore, i believe the sum of all hitpoints available weekly to be more meaningful: growth1*creature1HP+growth2*creature2HP+...+growth7*cretuare7HP
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forest001
Known Hero
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posted October 28, 2011 02:46 PM |
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@odium
yep, you are right right now it does not say much about each faction...
@xerox
also about balance, it's much more complicated that hitpoints and specials... you need to take creature abilities into account as well as other aspects + hitpoint numbers are wrong now as they don't take growth into account
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted October 28, 2011 03:57 PM |
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@odium -> Yes you are right, so:
Hit points x weekly growth (downgrades):
Highest = Naga (1719)
2nd = Orc (1718)
3rd = Necro (1553)
4th = Haven (1484)
Lowest = Inferno (1424)
Hit points x weekly growth (upgrades):
Highest = Orc (3026)
2nd = Necro (2985)
3rd = Naga (2928)
4th = Haven (2885)
Lowest = Inferno (2471)
So Inferno just are bottom with both vibes!
Notice the big jump from downgrades total hit points to upgrades....and this is not on hit points but in the jump in weekly growth (I mean Haven Sentinals are 9 a week, but Predatorians are 15 a week!)
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted October 28, 2011 04:08 PM |
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I knew there is a reason explaining inferno sucks 
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 28, 2011 04:12 PM |
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I can't believe that Necro is so high up and poor Inferno at the bottom.
I remember that I had an "Xerox's H6" years ago and one of the features was:
* Inferno will suck again lol
I'm such as psychic. 
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 28, 2011 04:41 PM |
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I would suggest formula : growth x HP / (1 - percentage of damage reduction)
in that case I think necro comes first.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted October 28, 2011 04:45 PM |
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I guess the point is that Inferno can Gate additional creatures onto the battlefield. Make any creature tougher and so will the gated versions be. Inferno might become unstoppable. Also keep in mind that Gating makes it extremely easy to block shooters.
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted October 28, 2011 05:18 PM |
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Seriously now. I dont have too much experience in playing inferno but hounds and gating seem very weak to me. I dont think you can compare factions like this, there is too many variables other than hp or defense. I think you should look at each tier as a whole and those should have comparable strength. I like core lineups for haven necro, and barbs, sanctuary for me is kinda meh but its not bad i guess. Inferno i think are too weak all around, but i might be wrong. Just compare strength of ghosts or harpies to any inferno core creature. Then compare strength of hounds to any other creature in any other faction.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted October 28, 2011 05:39 PM |
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Yes, Inferno faction seems terrible doens't it.....well they do have 2nd highest average Initiative and average luck way higher than other factions (to go with racial)....but still these factors aren't convincing enough...
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted October 28, 2011 06:12 PM |
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Quote:
I guess the point is that Inferno can Gate additional creatures onto the battlefield. Make any creature tougher and so will the gated versions be. Inferno might become unstoppable. Also keep in mind that Gating makes it extremely easy to block shooters.
So, how do you account for Necromancy ? for Guardian Angel ? for units' healing abilities ?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted October 28, 2011 06:51 PM |
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Yeah, Gating should be equally balanced with the benefits gained from Guardian Angel, Necromancy, etc. So the explanation shouldn't be found there.
I guess that's just the one point where they decided to stay true to Heroes tradition: Inferno has to be the suckiest faction. It's not that I have a particular love for Inferno, but between horribly overpriced H3 Devils, H4 Infernopolis and H5 sucky units in general, it just seems Inferno always gets the rough deal.
____________
What will happen now?
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forest001
Known Hero
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posted October 28, 2011 07:12 PM |
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the are evil so don't deserve anything more imho
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted October 28, 2011 07:58 PM |
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Why would it have to be equally balanced, on its own merit? How can you see the faction ability apart from the creatures affected by it?
In reverse, I guess someone would just have to mod it, to raise Inferno's creatures HPs. I can only assume that Inferno will then become OP.
By the way, I only have experience playing with Haven and Necropolis so far, although I did already play against all five factions in the campaigns.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted October 28, 2011 10:28 PM |
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Well nobody say that they racials are exactly balanced against each other as it is now, but clearly that's a better assumption than comparing Inferno with racial and saying that they should be comparable in strength to Haven or Necropolis without racial.
____________
What will happen now?
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted October 28, 2011 10:51 PM |
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I never said people should . In fact, my previous post is quite the opposite of that.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted October 31, 2011 07:02 AM |
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Everyone agrees that Necro is OP, so they should drop the hit points or the weekly growth of them.
H5 Necro was good in this respect where in final battles you needed alot more troops than your enemy to take into account their miserable hit points even though H5 necro had the best spell power (next to warlock), but the longer the battle the better it was...
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