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| Thread: Amy Winehouse found dead! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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JollyJoker
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posted July 24, 2011 11:42 AM |
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The difference between these tragedies is, that most people cannot understand, how a tragedy like that in Norway is even possible, what motivates someone do do such a thing and so on.
Leaving uncomprehending horror, seeing the result of so many dead people and so many more in mourning because of that.
As opposed to that most people think they understand Winheouse's dead better: another strung-out artist that threw away her life.
But isn't it a fact that we do not understand this tragedy any better than the other one, if we consider both destructive persons? Winehouse and the assassin? Are we really so shallow that we are content with a disregarding, "just another strung-out"?
Drug victims are not drug victims because the drugs are destroying them. They let themselves be destroyed by drugs, because something fundamental in their life isn't right.
Which is the tragedy here. It has been obvious for a long time that it would end this way, and it did end that way, as if there was no other result possible.
On the other hand, there are the tragedies we are used to: people regularly starving to death, dying in wars... do we really understand those better? Is the tragic death of the people in Norway "unnecessary" (and are other tragedies not so)?
There are many tragedies, and I don't think there is a politically correct "order", how to react. Every tragedy has something tragic, people are different which means that everyone may see their own aspects that get to them.
Shouldn't we simply respect this?
I mean, there is no law or rule to mourn about any tragedy, that's completely subjective - but can't we simply respect that feelings are not stupid and shouldn't be trampled upon?
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TheBaron
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posted July 24, 2011 12:43 PM |
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You're absolutely correct, it's no one's right to dictate what people feel sad about, or even when and how they do it. I just personally hope that people have enough vision to consider those things happening in the world that are worthy of emotion, which might not exist within our own small realms of interest, and that from time-to-time we should try and seek some perspective.
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Insanity
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Brain cells killa
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posted July 24, 2011 02:35 PM |
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And nothing of value was lost.
eeeek haterzz, pretty sad
someonezz mad coz he is of less worth than amy, like a bug squash it and wipe it off the only solution 4 peepz like u, squash little peepz and save our air new slogan, patented by the awesome me pufff
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william
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LummoxLewis
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posted July 24, 2011 02:37 PM |
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@ Mvass
I sent you a HCM. You don't seem to read very well. That's most likely half your problem in life. Read my thread. I'm still here for a tiny bit but wanted to say why I will be leaving. Now, for the rest of your post:
It's snot about caring about the opinions. It's nothing to do with that. The problem I have with you is that you think she is nothing of value. The only people that are worthless in this world, in my opinion, are rapists or serial killers. She did nothing to harm anybody, only herself. She's another human being. It shows a part of you when you say stupid **** such as "nothing of value was lost" and that part of you is disgusting. You made yourself like a right tosser in this thread and you should be ashamed because you are disgusting for even thinking that. She died a matter of hours before your post and you honestly think you have any right to be some kind of judge on another human life to be able to call her "worthless"? You are the one that is worthless. She might have been self destructive and all but at least she was popular, at least she did something for a little while. She made it big with her music and millions of people loved her for her music. What the hell have you ever done that gives you any kind of right to judge her or better yet another human life?
You have problems if you think your behaviour in this thread was right because it is disgusting. You have the right to express your opinion, sure, but if you do so in the manner you did then you're disgusting and it doesn't reflect well on you at all. You have no right and have done nothing with your life to be in any position to judge others. She might not matter to you but there's a line and you crossed it. You need to have respect and not act like some 12 year old in situations like this. Grow up.
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make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
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Tsar-Ivor
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posted July 24, 2011 02:40 PM |
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This thread is rated as 'Funny'???
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Azagal
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posted July 24, 2011 02:41 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 14:43, 24 Jul 2011.
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I wonder who that could have been... if only I knew a mischiefveous member with enough stars to rate threads with precisely the sort of humor to label this as funny. Hmm...how mysterious I guess we will never know .
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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DagothGares
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posted July 24, 2011 03:08 PM |
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Come on people, let's stop caring about what a Russian American college student is saying about a recently deceased British woman who died through her own self-destructive behaviour and whose music none of us really care about and who has been booed off stage a few times due to appearing too intoxicated on it.
I mean, we have here a person who is so weak that she killed herself through her own decadence. Yeah, sure, the dead need some respect, but if, somehow, one has the opinion that you are allowed to judge people, because, for some reason, your moral and ethical reason comes from the viewpoint of the self, which may or may not make sense to you, rather than your ethical and moral reason coming from accepted values imposed by our dead-eyed, western society, then I think that one person has the right to call out on this woman to kind of having wasted her life. And you have your opinion that one shouldn't judge over the dead, even though our opinions apparently differ when it's about a guy who killed people, which sounds a tad hypocritical to me, but then again I awoke at three PM today and I'm typing in my bathrobe wondering about my next meal, so there's that.
I mean, if you basically think "the dead deserve respect no matter what." Then that is your viewpoint over which I make no judgement. I do wish you'd all stop arguing as if there's some large rational reasoning behind it (except of course: we should all be nice and civil to one another always, no matter what) (which may or may not be rational to apply in this case), with which you can discuss this other person's viewpoints who based it on what is, to him, logically sound reasoning and just end this discussion, guys. Expressing moral outrage won't help any bit, except show how emotionally, rather than rationally, you respond to him and push him more into thinking he's right.
Jesus Christ, you guys, I'm starting to think you guys just like winning arguments by shouting the loudest and enjoy being outraged.
For those of you who think about whose side I'm picking, it's neither. I'm just very frustrated at this way everyone responds to each other. It's as if everyone is a character from a play made by Chekhov and you all say what you all want to say, rather than listening to what the other person is saying and replying to that. Everyone is talking past each other in ways that vaguely connect, rather than responding to each other's views in a productive way.
Good day to all.
EDIT: And I'd appreciate it, if JJ didn't go acting all pseudo-philosophical by finding two vague similarities between a serial killer and Amy Winehouse and equalling them to each other.
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DagothGares
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No gods or kings
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posted July 24, 2011 03:16 PM |
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Oh, and now everyone is like "No, I'm not. Dagoth sure can't be talking about me."
And just responding to this one random, rather ironical aside is making my point about you being a Chekhovian character all too clear.
EDIT: this post was in reply to one of William's, which he deleted.
EDIT2: to be super duper clear: the above post was in reply to everyone.
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Tsar-Ivor
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posted July 24, 2011 03:19 PM |
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When i mean respect, I simply meant don't speak ill of the dead, and not that we should mourn her loss or compare her to anything, it would be fair game if she was still alive, but now it seems so wrong, but do as you will.
Also Dagoth I don't tolerate blashphemy.
'Do not use the name of the LORD in vain'
(I don't personally consider jesus as my lord, but i'm certain many do)
Edit for BAron due to 20 posts (!!!!!): I haven't seen anyone openly speak ill of Hitler (on HC  ), and besides your missing the point that, both people you've never met, so I ask you siiir... who are you to judge?
thats what i wrote after reading only hitler in your post...please if you wish to talk to me understand what i'm saying and i'll do the same, if not then i shant extend the same courtesy to you, but it is irrevelant if you can't show some human decency then I won't waste my time.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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TheBaron
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dreamer of dreams
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posted July 24, 2011 03:29 PM |
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Edited by TheBaron at 15:30, 24 Jul 2011.
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It's not like people have a hard time bad-mouthing Hitler is it? Obviously AW isn't Hitler, but the argument that you can't say nasty things about someone after their dead - simply because they're dead - is pretty bogus, nor do I think that because someone is a celebrity they more deserving of sympathy.. I think it is sad when anyone ODs. I am not particularly fond of Amy Winehouse because she was, after-all, actively promoting a dangerous lifestyle, perhaps if she had spent more time going to rehab rather than taking the piss out of it she might still be alive. Rather than yelling at those people who just go out and say "stuff her, she was an idiot" why don't we condemn everyone who listened to Rehab, laughed and said "yeah you tell'em Amy, you party animal you" endorsing the very behaviour they are now crying about!
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Adrius
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posted July 24, 2011 03:40 PM |
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Godwin's law... comparing Winehouse to Hitler haha... ah this thread is going down...
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TheBaron
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posted July 24, 2011 03:51 PM |
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going down? or getting down! 
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JollyJoker
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posted July 24, 2011 04:21 PM |
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Quote:
EDIT: And I'd appreciate it, if JJ didn't go acting all pseudo-philosophical by finding two vague similarities between a serial killer and Amy Winehouse and equalling them to each other.
I don't equal THEM with each other, but the tragedies behind them and their lives, both set on destruction of their own self - albeit one of them with a very loud bang, creating more tragedy.
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Corribus
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The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted July 24, 2011 05:15 PM |
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Let's please watch the name calling, guys.
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mvassilev
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posted July 24, 2011 07:08 PM |
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Someone died today. You don't know them and neither do I. You don't see a topic on HC about it because they weren't famous. But if you didn't like Amy Winehouse's music, this unknown dead person is the same to you as Amy Winehouse, so I don't see why you're being sympathetic here and apathetic there.
JJ:
Right, you're older and richer than me. But there are people that are richer and more powerful than you - what if some rich corporate guy wants to bulldoze your house and build a mansion there? Without equal rights, you would be screwed. The point of equal protection under the law is to make sure that the weak multitude don't have to fight the powerful few. It's one of the many advantages civilization has over barbarism. You give up your right to do what you would be capable of doing to me in return for us both uniting against someone who would try doing something to either of us.
Quote:
They let themselves be destroyed by drugs, because something fundamental in their life isn't right.
Which is the tragedy here.
I disagree. If someone destroys themselves, it's much less tragic than if someone is killed. If someone is killing themselves, that's a choice that they made - it's nothing like the murder of an innocent person.
William:
Very well, if you want to quibble about particulars, you're right. She was someone of value because she was a human who hadn't done any harm. It's always bad when a person like that dies. But my point is more along the lines of "she's not special unless you liked her music, and is thus of no greater value than some not famous stranger who died."
And, as I said, I don't need to have done anything to judge. Everyone has the right to judge everyone.
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Nocturnal
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posted July 24, 2011 11:33 PM |
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I want to tell things seperately. So numbering would be suitable here.
1- Any person's death is not a nice thing if he/she is not a mass murderer or a serial killer etc. IMO
2- Comparing her death to Norwegian deaths recently is nothing more than cheap. I was sad over the Norwegian victims and I'm sad on Amy Winehouse.
3- Calling someone "she was worthless" and "her music was worthless" are different things. In the former, you actually have to know the person personally.
4- Calling her death as trivial because you find herself or her music is inhumane, because I do not know many of you, haven't even spoken a word with, but I love her music and so most of these respectless people here are more worthless to me than Amy Winehouse, but I would be sad over the death of everyone here, at least wouldn't call that death "nothing of value was lost." Talking about a person's death this way is purely saying "I'm a person who has lost everything about being a human in myself."
5- It is unacceptable to be happy on her death because you don't like her music and "won't hear her screamin anymore". She didn't go mute. She has ceased to live and she had people who loved her.
6- I would want to see if these people would lose someone they love and hear a stranger call these deaths that way. You're simply spoilt children.
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mvassilev
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posted July 25, 2011 12:31 AM |
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6- I would want to see if these people would lose someone they love and hear a stranger call these deaths that way.
They're only strangers. Why would I care?
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Jabanoss
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posted July 25, 2011 01:08 AM |
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You obvious care enough to let the world know how you feel, and that's what I don't get. Or rather I do understand that you really want to tell people how little you care for this person. You do this even though you know that will make people upset. So the question is, why don't you just refrain yourself from writing such comments?
Surly that would be a much more mature thing to do, to respect and/or just ignore.
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- Meroe
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mvassilev
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posted July 25, 2011 02:25 AM |
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I care because people are talking about it. I may not care too much about the original event that spawned the discussion (though, as William pointed out, it's always bad when an innocent person dies), but I care about the fact that people are talking.
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JollyJoker
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posted July 25, 2011 07:49 AM |
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Mvass:
Quote:
Someone died today. You don't know them and neither do I. You don't see a topic on HC about it because they weren't famous. But if you didn't like Amy Winehouse's music, this unknown dead person is the same to you as Amy Winehouse, so I don't see why you're being sympathetic here and apathetic there.
I'm sympathetic, because she isn't anonymous, but has a face. I had no relation to her, but I still find her fate tragic - a long protracted death. It tastes of sadness, loneliness, and misery - as every comparable story that you learn of. The fact, that she had somthing to offer, what millions liked, wanted, and paid for, is an additional tragedy factor.
Quote:
Right, you're older and richer than me. But there are people that are richer and more powerful than you - what if some rich corporate guy wants to bulldoze your house and build a mansion there? Without equal rights, you would be screwed.
No, I'm not. That's because I HAVE equal rights, the rights of my peers, plus a couple of priviledges that give me more rights than you. Which is just as well, because you have no feelings and no faith in God, and your utilitaristian/materialistic world view even denies the existance of everything that makes life worthy and gives it a purpose. We are definitely not similar, and in fact I doubt you are even human.
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The point of equal protection under the law is to make sure that the weak multitude don't have to fight the powerful few. It's one of the many advantages civilization has over barbarism. You give up your right to do what you would be capable of doing to me in return for us both uniting against someone who would try doing something to either of us.
Oh, you can have equal rights - but only under your equals. Why would I give up any of my rights for the benefit of people I'm in doubt of whether I should even consider them human? They will do everything for a a couple of bucks, tell you every lie right in the face and whack you over the head as soon as you turn your back to them. Their wants and needs are primitive, they are content to live like swine, and their barbaric tastes and desires are sickening. They are protected under the law alright - but only against their equals.
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They let themselves be destroyed by drugs, because something fundamental in their life isn't right.
Which is the tragedy here.
I disagree. If someone destroys themselves, it's much less tragic than if someone is killed. If someone is killing themselves, that's a choice that they made - it's nothing like the murder of an innocent person.
Well, that's your opinion. I've no idea what it's based on, but unless I did miss something you cannot measure these things in any objective way, so opinions on these matters are not right or wrong, but simply ARE, and the interesting question in the face of different opinions is, what they are based upon, not who is right.
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Everyone has the right to judge everyone.
As everyone has the right to make a fool of themselves. The fact that something isn't forbidden, doesn't mean it's a good thing to do it.
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