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| Thread: Nival or BlackHole ??? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · NEXT» |
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted May 04, 2012 03:26 AM |
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Poll Question:
Nival or BlackHole ???
Who do you think did a better job?
Nival with HeroesV
or BlackHole with HeroesVI
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Simpelicity
Promising
Famous Hero
Video maker
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posted May 04, 2012 04:07 AM |
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That is an absolutely unfair question. H5 is finished. H6 is still an ongoing project. I don't know what's happenning with possible or not changes in who's developping H6, haven't been following that story, but that's irrelevant anyways even if BH isn't developping H6 anymore. They didn't get nearly as much time to complete their game. Nival barely finished.
Obvious answer is up to now BH did the worst job. But you're comparing apples and oranges. It's an unfair comparison for BH.
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"You r the shakespeare of heroes vi, in every single battle i say: "he is gonna to loss"." - Cumulo88
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted May 04, 2012 06:40 AM |
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It's not that unfair when you think about it, Darklord isn't asking about the bugginess of the game I don't think, but about the way it plays, the skill system, the magic system, the town system etc. Of course since Ubisoft oversaw the whole thing it would hardly be fair to compare Nival to Blackhole either, just compare the play of H6 with vanilla H5.
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted May 04, 2012 07:05 AM |
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Simpelicity, in your post you seem to agree that Black Hole did worse job. I don't blame them, just the outcome is terrible.
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted May 04, 2012 07:22 AM |
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Black Hole, due to all the gameplay regulations imposed by Ubi
and not even being allowed the chance to right their wrongs.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 04, 2012 08:12 AM |
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It may make sense to keep in mind that a basic game idea, like reducing the number of resources, allowing to convert towns and so on and so forth, are only very rarely bad as such and per se.
Most of the time, and that's true for M&MH6 as well, it's simply a question of implementing the design choices THE RIGHT WAY, so they make a smooth game.
That's what Black Hole hasn't delivered. It starts with the awful interface (11 pages menu for hero skills and levelling up? Were they out of their mind), which was done by a third company, but was finished EARLY - but no one intervened or something, it ends with a patchwork of an uninspired and unbalanced skill tree without rhyme or reason and a completely unintuitive and mysterious way of computing damage and bonusses and whatnot.
That's not Ubisoft. That's just a monster of a game project the developer couldn't handle.
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted May 04, 2012 08:27 AM |
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Agreed, as much as i dislike Ubisoft and their decisions, Black Hole cannot hide from its share of blame.
Most of my H5 complaints were tied to story/universe and stuff controlled by Ubi, while Nival's part was actually done really well by patch 1.2 or something like that (when game became mostly stable).
In H6, game is in pretty bad shape no matter which angle you look at it from and even fixing all the bugs wouldn't fix the bad game system.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted May 04, 2012 08:59 AM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 09:00, 04 May 2012.
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Whatevs, Ubi chose Black Hole, a tiny company in Hungary, to develop their game,
and I'm not gonna continue hold a grudge against a company that doesn't even exist anymore.
Meanwhile, Ubi continue to act the goat.
"Heroes 6 had the strongest launch of all the HoMM games"
I guess the name change didn't hurt HoMMs brand awareness then. Good for them.
And now they're into card games and whatnot and can't be bothered to prioritize the half-finished game they released half a year ago?
Bah!
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 04, 2012 10:33 AM |
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Interesting attitude, that.
So when you summon people to do work for you - say craftsmen, gardeners or something -, and you tell them, well, I want you to do this piece of garden, and I would like a terrace here, and a flowerbed there, and a lawn somewhere, not too big, not too small, and you decide on a budget, and when the budget is used up and the garden is half finished, the lawn is too big and the flower bed sucks - you do nothing, because it's entirely your fault:
you should have hired a dfferent gardener there!
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted May 04, 2012 10:48 AM |
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Quote:
you should have hired a dfferent gardener there!
No, I sell it to the first optimistic nitwit I find. Profit!
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 04, 2012 11:18 AM |
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What you mean is, since you wanted to be the garden an outdoor café and have put some money into it, you still go into business to try and get it back, but since the garden is a mess, your profits vanish into thin air, since not many can stand the looks to come back for a second visit, warning others, not to visit that etablissement.
Still, your point was, that it's Ubi's fault since they hired BH, and that's an attitude that simply makes no sense.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted May 04, 2012 11:46 AM |
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The world is full of malevolent small developers which ambush every naive publisher that comes their way.  It happens to Ubisoft for the second time.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted May 04, 2012 11:46 AM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 11:48, 04 May 2012.
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Quote:
your profits vanish
I don't know what you're talking about. My cafe was a huge success and paved way for future Cafe & Garden projects. Although it didn't get as many visitors that I had initially hoped,
it still had more visitors on opening day than any other previous cafe in the district.
Of course, the Polish workers I hired to do the gardening job didn't receive full payment.
And it's not ultimately Ubi's fault. I blame Black Hole and those who decided to buy the game despite having played the beta as much as I blame Ubi.
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Dexter
Known Hero
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posted May 04, 2012 11:54 AM |
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Personally, I think it's not a fair competition.
When Nival started the development process of Heroes V, they had different priorities and goals, and most notably: different resources. And I don't only mean the funds that Ubisoft was willing to deploy into the development of the game, but also human resources, as Nival is, and has been for the past couple of years, a huge company.
Unfortunately Black Hole was rather small, collaborating with many outsourcing studios. Also, I suppose that the money Ubisoft was willing to spend at the time wasn't sufficient either. Do have in mind that before Ubisoft switched the developer, Nival had already created a lot of content for the game and basically finished the whole preproduction phase. Even though none of the assets have been used for the final version of Heroes VI, those still remain Ubisoft's property for which they had to pay, thus already cutting the money resources allocated to the game.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted May 04, 2012 12:12 PM |
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Nival big company? I certainly wouldn't say that judging from their output. Apart from Heroes V, they don't have a single major game bearing their name. And they certainly didn't do better with the patching of Heroes V than Black Hole did (while still alive) with Heroes VI.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 04, 2012 01:00 PM |
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What I learned over the years is that the worls is full of people who simply overestimate their abilities - or sccept a business offer, because it's a big chance, but are out of their depth.
Has nothing to do with malevolence. It's just, if everyone who tried could make a brillant game - we had a lot of them. But we don't.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted May 04, 2012 01:27 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 13:28, 04 May 2012.
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You make it sound very simple. I doubt that Ubisoft gathered the potential devs in some room and staged a competition who will cry "ME!!!" the loudest when asked who wants the project. Or maybe Black Hole were indeed malevolent little tricksters and told Ubisoft that they have 10 times more resources (manpower, etc.) than they actually had and the trusty corporate lads fell for it. 
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 04, 2012 01:43 PM |
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Well, you know, what they say: the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
In my opinion they simply couldn't process the amount of changes Heroes 6 brought. It's comparable with H4, in that 6 leaves no stone unturned. It simply proved too much work to polish the new elements and patch them together to a seamless whole.
In other words - the project was too ambitious.
Probably a case of blame sharing between production team and developer.
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ywhtptgtfo
Hired Hero
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posted May 07, 2012 12:26 PM |
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Quote:
You make it sound very simple. I doubt that Ubisoft gathered the potential devs in some room and staged a competition who will cry "ME!!!" the loudest when asked who wants the project. Or maybe Black Hole were indeed malevolent little tricksters and told Ubisoft that they have 10 times more resources (manpower, etc.) than they actually had and the trusty corporate lads fell for it.
Potential dev #1: Pick me!
Potential dev #2: Choose me!
Blackhole: I. WANT. IN!
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted May 07, 2012 12:58 PM |
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