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| Thread: Total Tactics |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted June 18, 2001 05:30 PM |
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Well here it is again, how lovely 
To Ichon and Reanimator i appreciate your posts, its nice to see that ideas can be shared here without slander - i hope you don't stop responding to these posts with intellegent and well thought out replies, because it is wonderful to see.
To Mocara, you say that the ba5tards should get their own board because they are.. what was it ? too negative for you? Well i'll personally ask any ToH players playing in Ba5tards who post here to keep their comments as positive as calling other people "do-do heads" and referring to others as swine, would that suit you? You speak to your friends posting here telling them that their wisdom is wasted on these players because "they suck" and then have the audacity to claim that THEY are the ones filling the board with negativity? Thats pretty hypocritical.
The players in ba5tards who post here, are also ToH members with every bit as much right to their opinions as you - and with every bit as much right to post them as you have. I don't like seeing insults being bandied about here by either side -and it saddens me to see that players like Woods are being offended by remarks that have been made here.
This arguement over the right and wrong of hit and run is never going to end - i think by now we should all accept it. But what we can do is try a more positive way of exchanging ideas - in the example of reanimator who i've not yet seen attempt to make any look the fool for not feeling as he does in the game, and who has always been willing to share his strategies and ideas 
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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motorschaaf
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted June 18, 2001 06:45 PM |
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hehe...
hehe ...
but plz dont tell anyone wacko  that we lost the 2on2 cause i accidently attacked garrison on CC4 with only 5 ancients and left the other troops on the scout 
but now i finally bought an optical mouse and time limits r no problems with it
Motorschaaf
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jb239
Famous Hero
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posted June 18, 2001 10:19 PM |
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some comments...
nice to see people labeling and arguing with one another...
but the Hit and run "problem" wasnt there for the first year or so, and this is just my oppinion, so doesnt mean its true...but I think the "problem" started from certain players taking hit and run to an extreme and pissing others off. not 1 hit and run, not 2, but like 10 hit and runs or hit and run till they gone. I got a story similar to this, and this is why I dislike it..
I was playing a player long ago, I wont say his name, because its irrelevant, but we had a great game going, open map, hard scout battles, everything...then I had him trapped sort of speak, so worked my way to his town since I pushed him back. and I ended turn a few steps from his town..and he was castle and I inferno, so he had the speed advantage for troops, but I figured next turn I attack his town for a great battle to most likely end this game..if I lost he would regain the whole land, if I win its over. so he comes out to soften me with hit and run..hit 1, ok, no prob, I can accept it, 2, then 3..then after about 4 or 5 I was near death and thought well guess Ill use whats left to battle it out, prolly lose now...but no he continues to hit and run me until Im dead period. that pissed me off most and gave me a bad feelin ever since about hit and run.
Some are prolly thinkin how horrible..others how stupid I was, but my big point about hit and run is it is used to straight out win, not for enjoyment of the game. Im not sayin point of game isnt to win, but its for both to enjoy in decidin who wins.
and as for the Ba5tard tourney, sure there is the no hit and run rule, but the idea is to have fun, and like Ive said b4, not 1 problem that I know of, concerning hit and run within the tourney, because people see the rule more as to have fun, then watch every move u do because u may be hitting and running.
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I will not lose.
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maxym
Known Hero
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posted June 18, 2001 11:04 PM |
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Hey Andi we never called anyone stupid
All I said was that not taking precautions like that mean a deserved loss. Also in that scenario it is the other player who has the shackles not the hit and runner. This might be a nice double cross Hit and Run followed an attack with shackles on the player who resorts to tactics minimizing H&R effects.
And that quote is just a joke, I have explained it once before and even removed it. I guess I was reverted to old settings since i last used my comp over a month ago.
Also i am not averse to making rules if the map warrants it in my opinion, but not all encompasing rules everyone should follow.
And yes lets go back to strange and terrible tactics used out there but not H&R.
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rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted June 19, 2001 01:45 AM |
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CRIKEY!!!!
Do you ppl know how to beat the snow out of a dead horse or what?
Another Do-Do head
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Re-Animator
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 19, 2001 11:13 AM |
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Quote:
Also i am not averse to making rules if the map warrants it in my opinion, but not all encompasing rules everyone should follow.
That's probably the wisest thing that's been said about this topic. Since I play mostly random maps I realize a lot of game spoiling things can happen that may necessitate "rules". If there is a dimension door scroll not heavily guarded you simply choose not to use it. What you don't do is ban Dimension Door or otherwise argue how "unfair" and cheap it is to be able to move around so far on the map.
Now on to some minor tactics.
On random maps, I find the view earth and view air spells fairly useful (especially in the rare case I happen to find a magic plains early on). Most people don't bother casting them unless they have expert proficiency in them, but even at basic level they can help you immensely (earth moreso - air really needs advanced expertise). Basic view earth will let you determine how resource rich or poor the map is and it gives you an idea of where the necessary resource mines are. Additionally, by tracking when and in what direction resources disappear you can gauge approximately: where your opp is; where he/she is going; and what resources he/she may lack (and thus not be able to build certain structures).
Of course this isn't some game-breaking strategy and it's probably not anywhere near as useful on formula maps, but like Rychen, I was sick of talking about h/r.
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woods
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 19, 2001 06:38 PM |
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calming down... not really ....
first i wanna say thanxx to pandora for her words to calm down that situation
but:
>>You honestly think they want to know the answers?
Well they don't.<<
true - or not true ?
pls, have a look :
a. >>I wanna get better so please explain an unskilled player like me how u would counter this scenario in detail :-) <<
>>i may be a so called "do-do head" and i may not have the game knowledge that u have but I know all cheap tricks. I know how to use em, and i know how to counter them (most o the times there are NO ways to counter some tactics) but i would never use em . <<
>>yep its right if a newbie wants me to teach him some things bout the game why shouldnt i tell him some things ? And why shouldnt i tell him how i like the game most ? <<
b. so pls have a look at angelslayers questions, and after reanimators answering, he modified the initial question and
then : >> you call reanimator a intelligent man of heroes who has studied this game and is a very clever "tactican", well to me he didnt proove that in a game or a league, so its just another statement that makes not much sense. <<
that whole szenario was nothing more then the try (successful) to begin a conflict.....
it was a quiet thread up to that moment angelslayer brokes in with that 'ignorance of 'no rulers'' (btw i think it's better for a hc-member not to polarize in that way...)
so.... what was it ? was it pure chance ?.....
-- and then anyone wants to lame about a 'do-do-head' ???
-woods
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arachnid
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 19, 2001 07:30 PM |
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'do-do-head' ?
Can everyone stop saying this!? This must be the lamest attack ive ever heard!!! If your going to attack someone please at least put some effort in to it!
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Zud
Promising
Famous Hero
box worshipper
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posted June 19, 2001 07:35 PM |
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arachnid
Your a do-do head
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Winner or Whiner?
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maxym
Known Hero
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posted June 19, 2001 09:33 PM |
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If you want to get to me then you'll have to do it over dead bodies ....
of my secondary heroes.
I am sure most of us have seen this tactic used before, or use it themselves. I am referring to blocking the entrance and path to your town with scouts. It is usually a last resort but it can turn the game around.
The way i do it is when my opponent is coming with a superior field army but is still 1 day away, i'll out the main hero in the town, block the entrance with a scout, then another scout in front of him, and as many as i feel necessary on key points along his shortest route, preferably not on roads and on difficult terrain like swamp or desert to make him waste even more movement points breaking through thouse scouts.
Hey he might run out just 1 tile short of your town and you can Hit and Run him to death LOL J/K
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"What is life? Work followed by television."
"1985" Anthony Burgess
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted June 20, 2001 11:29 PM |
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Once more into the brink
Well... seems some people have very strong opinions about H&R which has been obvious for awhile, but I dont' know why anyone thinks to take it personally about merely different ways to play the game. As far as I am concerned, anything in the game is permisable. I don't like people looking at saves or editing the map, that isn't really in the game. The two things to me that border closest on cheating or should be banned are if Red attack day 1, or the Grail is buried right next to your starting castle. However, I take it as a challenge to win even if the otehr side gets grail, or avoid red attacking on day 1, if red is in range on day 7 to attack on day one, usually that means you are in range of him also, just take him on a day early. If you can't win then, you couldn't even if you both waited 1 day.
As for H&R- probably people really get upset when it occurs as JB mentioned that they are hit&ran to death. It's rare to see that however, only times it could maybe occur are when a hero stops right in front of a castle, or possibly right in front of a tavern. I consider it well done if I get 4-5 attacks on an opponents hero, however that is almost never using my main hero. Also- someone said H&R targets strongest creatures usually? Well, maybe some people try that, but I calculate which does the most damage- Maybe my lightening only does 250 and my opponent has Towere or something- almost always the best bet then is not Titan or Nagas, but rather Genies or Magi. Sometimes I even take out all level 1's and 2's. It leave the strongest creature, but also makes them not be able to soak up retaliation well first couple rounds of the battle which maybe is all I need.
If this were only about the final end battle, then I don't see why people spend all the hours playing the map to make an army for a good battle. Why not just edit a map and include what you want on your heroes then fight a huge battle? The fun is in playing the map and outmanouvering your opponent. Maybe because I play many wargames I see this game differently than most, but strategy and tactics are all encompassing, the allies bombing German cities to rubble to affect the war economy killed thousands of innocents, but also won the war. If you enjoy roleplaying then examine it from that perspective, wouldn't your heroes and soldiers want the best outcome at the least risk to themselves? If you think of H&R as so dangerous... there or more forms of it than you think.
One game I played I expanded recklessly fast- overunning nearly the entire map by week 2, of course I lost many units that way, I was Inferno and by week 3 when I fought my Utopia with reduced armies due to the battling previous 2 weeks, I was left with only some Efreet Sultans and Arch Devils, every other unit was dead. I had plenty of gold however, and also Expert Water magic and Clone spell. Well, I attacked with my Arch Devils all in 1 stack and cast clone- they attack and then I surrender before I need to move the cloned stack. Since my opponent had to advance trhough my entire land to reach my home castle, I had 3 different towns to attack him from. I tested shackles with a fairly decent H&R hero, then used my main to attack with the Arches and Clone all the way as he advanced to my town. By the time he arrived it was week 4, and He still had slightly larger army, but since I still had clone and also had found shackles myself in the meantime- while he waited on day 7 expecting to chain his army up I attacked him with only what I had, after a long battle I finally won with only 1 arch devil and 2 efreet sultans to spare. Now why isn't that honorable to people who dislike H&R? It isn't directly a damage spell and it costs a heck of alot more, but it had the same effect... also I would have definately lost if I hadn't done it that way.
So if you think you are outmatched in a standard battle should you just give up and surrender? Also- as far as H&R goes... I often flood my opponents land with all my H&R heroes when H&R is officially banned by agreement for that game, but my goal isn't an attack on his main hero, but rather to take out all his supporting heroes. Even if I lose 3-4 heroes, I can usually get 6 of his... then I am 5,000 gold ahead and also the time it slows him down to get his chain setup again.
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jb239
Famous Hero
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posted June 21, 2001 02:53 AM |
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and the discussion continues!
As I mentioned before, even I admit it, people got a little out of hand with hit and run...
what I mean by this is, that when 1 huge hit and run experience..say 2000 implode 2 times on ur army happens..the game is basically ruined for u with no battle, because ur whole army is basically devastated. That is what I hate about hit and run, but....other things like ichons clone one and maybe a hit to bolt and kill lv 1's is sorta ona different level. and Im not for hit and run, but have seriously seen people go insane over it.
1 small example is... opponent A and B playing. (wont mention real names) B attacks A and they fight 1 round, then A casts ressurect and surrenders at beginning of round 2 b4 B can go. If anyone readin this, do u think that A was dishonest in this move? well I saw a huge arguement over this...and heard arguement that hit and run rule was broke. needless to say, thats insane, esp since A didnt even do the hitting, so how could they break the rule? but my point is, stupid things like this get mixed in with other experiences, hence causing chaos on the whole issue.
suggestions for it? play people you are familiar with if you got a problem with hit and run, because then you both have a common understanding. and if you dont care about hit and run? play whoever, it doesnt matter to you.
final comment for ichon..when people play hours on end with no interaction to have a final big battle its mostly a test to see who played the map better, and to have a nice big battle with what u earned or found. And this is more enjoyable to us who have lots to work on between turns but wanna play, got kids to watch, etc...Many know what I mean
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I will not lose.
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted June 21, 2001 04:25 AM |
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Bring Homm4 on!!
I just wanted to interject here. As Jb was leading on to there are several different ideas of what hit and run consists of but I am going to comment on JB's story about A and B.
I have always veiwed hit and run as any round in which Player A ( which gets to start everyround) hits with implosion and then leaves before player B gets his turn in that round to cast resurection. It really doesnt matter if it is round 1 or round 7, the effect is the same you are causing massive amounts of damage then leaving before your opponent has a chance to retaliate. I am sure many will disagree with me... most usually do
I have had players hit and run me in the middle of a map when we traveled to close and eliminate my 8 dragons and had nothing to do with being a do do head and falling 1 hex short of hit town. Game was over at that point and that was with only 1 hit and run.
I think everyone is just really really ready for HOMM4. I know I cant wait, from some of the reading I have seen there wont be a Hit and Run as we know it possible. But there will be infinite counters for all tactics not just a few counters. Plus I see the speed factors will have things to infulence them. I.E. pikeman eliminate the opponetns first turn option. Stuff like that.
Will be exiting to have some actualy strategy and thought in the game besides " I have clearly been out played so if I want to win I better H&R casue its my only option "
Bring Homm4 on!!!!
Jinxer
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mklthrkngl
Known Hero
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posted June 21, 2001 06:19 PM |
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my vavorite tactic!!
i used to luv getting tower and byeing like 200k worth of heroe's and pooling all my grems and running across the map and just squashing some poor unsuspecting opponent the next day without him having any chance of defending him or herself. The incredible rush of power i'd feel from such a victory was indescribable!! / it all gone now though, Damn patch!!!!!!!
oh wher have all my gremlins gone, where where where?
All lost and gone into the patch zone!
doo dooo doo do, doo dooo doo do. my poor attempt at the twighlight zone music
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted June 21, 2001 09:38 PM |
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Not again Jinxer...
" I have clearly been out played so if I want to win I better H&R casue its my only option "
That opinion right there is why I always have to respond to those who put down H&R. I would say if you fail to H&R yourself you are already outplayed. I'll usually H&R even if I think I will win the main battle- not only are there so many factors that could cause my estimation of what will happen in the battle to be wrong, but I don't see why I should lose more units than I absolutely have to. I try to get 0 losses in every single battle I play unless I am Necro or Inferno. Then I might purposely try to lose some useless creatures, but never in the final battles.
Why does it seem the idea you have is so prevalent? H&R takes as much skill as any other aspect of this game. Of course someone with a high level hero H&R once with an Implosion or Chain Lightening is bad, but I find it's extremely rare that a game last long enough to get 5th level guild unless it's a clan game or some other reason the guild is easier than normal to reach. Also- Just taking resistance and getting 1 Resistance artifact is usually possible on almost every map, anything you can do to protect yourself is valid- not to mention putting out interceptor heroes to head off your opponents H&R hero. If you think that enough game time has elapsed that they have 5th level guild or a Tome, then make the neccessary precautions. They might not always work, but I have played many games and only been successfully H&R with Implosion once. The person had 3 heroes with Implosion, I took out 2, but the 3rd got by, I didn't begrudge the H&R, it was a good strategy by my opponent to build up 3 heroes strong enough to use Implosion.
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mklthrkngl
Known Hero
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posted June 23, 2001 05:27 AM |
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one of my favorite tactics
i luv the arch angel bomb!! was in a fest and had like a wacklooad of archies my op blinds them. i don't care i just keep cloning them and using clone for res or hits. Because my real archies are blinded my op didn't figure it was ever worth while hitting them makeing my clones a truly devastating force indeed
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted June 23, 2001 06:42 AM |
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Ichon...
"I would say if you fail to H&R yourself you are already outplayed. "
i have to disagree, i think the player who hits and runs themself definatly needs to work on his game!! i don't like the tactic personally, but i'll make a new rule now, its ok for you to hit and run yourself if u want to!
ps: i sure hope u don't take me seriously here, im just kidding around! (trying to make light of a topic that seems to me like an itch u just can't get rid of)
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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LichKing
Honorable
Known Hero
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posted June 24, 2001 12:20 AM |
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h/r
I don't like it, to my knowledge I have never used it, and I'd rather take a loss before I resort to it. BUT, I've never requested a rule banning it, either.
Since this is a tactics thread, I'd like to talk about one of my favorite tactics. I like to send my hellhounds/cerberi over to my opponent's side of the map to urinate on his fenceposts and tires and to hump his heroes' legs. This tactic alone is usually so devastating that a final battle is not even necessary
I'm amazed it hasn't been banned yet,
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SOUND THE CHARGE!! INTO GLORY RIDE!!!
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mklthrkngl
Known Hero
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posted June 24, 2001 09:46 PM |
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go lichy goo!!!!!
that a great ploy lich!!
one of my all time favs though is the slow ball!!
we've all played those guys who can make a turn last 2 or more active messages right? well i just go do my turn get into a fight and go watch tely, or make out with the little woman. I once did a whole bathroom renovation during one memorable week of a game!!
so the next time you are annoyed by these slow pokes, and you know who you are!! /, just do the slow ball on em!!
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Mocara
Famous Hero
what?
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posted June 26, 2001 07:03 AM |
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No Schaaf, it's cool.
That's just how much a few of these bass-turds hate me around here. That I can use a word like "do-do head", a childish term meaning zero offense and it can be taken out of proportion that way.
The gist of my post was just saying "who cares about this? you guys play your way and we will play our way."
Who cares what Andi thinks?
You said I picked on Schaaf cause he was easier to pick on.
I wasn't picking on him. Actually you are easier to pick on due to your mega-gay nickname =)
Who cares what Jinxer thinks?
Who cares what Mocara thinks?
Noone, that's who.
A lil game that maybe 200 people play actively is of lil importance.
It's just a game peeps.
We all come here and act like it's Jerry Springer and thats cool but when people get all emotional about it I think it's a lil sad (and I've been there myself so I'm guilty too).
Mad props to Shae and Woods for gettin my back.
I wish I knew you guys on the real.
Good friends are hard to find.
-Mocara
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