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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted April 22, 2013 08:40 PM |
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Quote:
I long for the day when all this is behind us  I do not expect that the next heroes will be da best everr but one that understands its fanbase and has clear priorities of what to go for and what to avoid. Perhaps I should make a few polls on that matter.
Hear, Hear. Though I fear that there will always be those will say that III was the best ever. And where they are fully entitled to that opinion, I hope they can at least be civil about it.
And as far as those polls go, be sure I'll cast my vote and elaborate on the choice I made.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted April 22, 2013 08:46 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 20:58, 22 Apr 2013.
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Quote:
I do not expect that the next heroes will be da best everr but one that understands its fanbase and has clear priorities of what to go for and what to avoid.
Wasn't Heroes 6 suppose to be like that? I mean they said a lot about their love for the franchise, bigger then ever role of Insiders in the project or listening to the voice of "da fanbaze". If this is a game made with all this "love" I seriously doubt Heroes 7 will be that much better. Heroes 5 was an experiment, because it was taken over by a completely new publisher, who wanted to create their own world etc, so many things could be forgiven. But Heroes 6 on the other hand... not that it's a bad game, I personally like it (hard not to notice no?  ), but I understand what an empty shell of a game it is to the mod/mapmaker an multiplayer community. Do you mean those kind of "things to avoid" Elvin?
Quote:
I fear that there will always be those will say that III was the best ever. And where they are fully entitled to that opinion, I hope they can at least be civil about it.
I'm one of those people. But I don't discard other Heroes entries because of it. I treat each Heroes game individually and play each as a different game. There are things I like/dislike in every one of them, but I had/am having a lot of fun playing each of them. I played Heroes 4 like a maniac on the second year of my studies, I'm playing Heroes 5 right now. Each of them had a big role in cementing my love for the TBS genre...
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted April 22, 2013 08:52 PM |
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Quote:
I long for the day when all this is behind us I do not expect that the next heroes will be da best everr but one that understands its fanbase and has clear priorities of what to go for and what to avoid. Perhaps I should make a few polls on that matter.
Some polls could help here, imo. Go for them!
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted April 22, 2013 09:03 PM |
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Quote:
I'm one of those people. But I don't discard other Heroes entries because of it. I treat each Heroes game individually and play each as a different game. There are things I like/dislike in every one of them, but I had/am having a lot of fun playing each of them. I played Heroes 4 like a maniac on the second year of my studies, I'm playing Heroes 5 right now. Each of them had a big role in cementing my love for the TBS genre...
My point exactly. This is certainly civil behaviour. I was more referring to the type of troll who swear a lot about how they dislike everything and include the 'Always Cool' "HEreos III Was Best 4Evur" or something similar in every post they make.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 22, 2013 09:28 PM |
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Quote:
I do not expect that the next heroes will be da best everr but one that understands its fanbase and has clear priorities of what to go for and what to avoid. Perhaps I should make a few polls on that matter.
Ah, that's an easy one.
Do: a game that follows Heroes I-II-III evolutionary pattern - more improvement than drastic changes;
Avoid: Ubisoft.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted April 22, 2013 10:17 PM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 22:19, 22 Apr 2013.
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Quote:
My point exactly. This is certainly civil behaviour. I was more referring to the type of troll who swear a lot about how they dislike everything and include the 'Always Cool' "HEreos III Was Best 4Evur" or something similar in every post they make.
Hyperbole notwithstanding, I can't help but feel you're refering to me
In my defense, I have to say I like H2 and H3 equally, and I love a lot of the things H4 did right.
H6 just happened to do all the wrong things, IMO.
Quote:
Do: a game that follows Heroes I-II-III evolutionary pattern - more improvement than drastic changes;
Avoid: Ubisoft.
This is something I can get behind 
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted April 22, 2013 10:23 PM |
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Quote:
Do: a game that follows Heroes I-II-III evolutionary pattern - more improvement than drastic changes;
Avoid: Ubisoft.
Pretty much this. With emphasis on the first part. Big changes like we had in H6 can simply risk the game too easily, a less revolutionary Heroes'd be a great step, imo
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted April 22, 2013 10:24 PM |
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I wasn't refering to anyone in particular.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted April 23, 2013 01:56 PM |
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9 days and counting to release! 
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted April 23, 2013 02:25 PM |
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9 days and counting to release!
Seriously now, are you willing to spam this topic everyday with this kind of info
BTW, some shops ship games to their customers even a few days before the official release day, so it's not exactly 9 days...
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted April 23, 2013 02:30 PM |
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Well that is useful info so it's not spam anymore
Besides, at least it's positive and might get people amped for the expansion!
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flonembourg
Known Hero
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posted April 23, 2013 05:27 PM |
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Quote:
Do: a game that follows Heroes I-II-III evolutionary pattern - more improvement than drastic changes;
Avoid: Ubisoft.
But You should not forget the goods things of H4 and H5!
Heroes 4: Hero on the battlefield is very fun and when you level up you have the feeling that it is you who fights, it was pretty immersive no?
I think with a better integration of the hero on the the battlefield it should be great, but not exactly like heroes 4 because in final battle, first turn your hero will be crushed by a big stack! but the idea in itself is good.
Heroes 5: sorry but the ATB BAR was a great idea, but the problem was the difference of initiative between a zombie and a fury and the 0.25 ATB at the beginning of the battle who include too much randomness... but with the ATB BAR combat are far more alive or exciting and the fact that the hero with few skills or perk coud improve is initiative were a good thing, in heroes 6 it's like turn 1, turn 2 turn 50... so boring!
i could agree more on Avirosb post:"H6 just happened to do all the wrong things"
And that is the real problem!
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted April 23, 2013 07:13 PM |
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Quote:
Heroes 4: Hero on the battlefield is very fun and when you level up you have the feeling that it is you who fights, it was pretty immersive no?
NO
(If I would wan't to do such things i would play an RPG (like Rage of mages) not a TBS)
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 23, 2013 07:26 PM |
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the new Rampart remix is amazing
I think Rampart is the best track in the history of M&M
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted April 23, 2013 07:42 PM |
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But You should not forget the goods things of H4 and H5!
Heroes 4: Hero on the battlefield is very fun and when you level up you have the feeling that it is you who fights, it was pretty immersive no?
No. It was fun, but only as a one time experiment. Heroes is a game that puts it's emphasis on armies of various creatures. One of the greatest aspect of the game is the unlimited possibilities of combining them. Heroes 4 encouraged you to even discard your army as a whole, because units only got in the way of your "powerhouse" hero. It was too RPG-ish imo...
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Heroes 5: sorry but the ATB BAR was a great idea, but the problem was the difference of initiative between a zombie and a fury and the 0.25 ATB at the beginning of the battle who include too much randomness...
No it was not a great idea. TBS are like chess, each move must be accounted for. The initiative bar destroyed any strategic thinking. Fast factions like Inferno literally owned the battlefield. Battles were decided by who had more luck and morale effects. The effects of spells like Slow or Haste were impossible to foresee (casting a Haste spell could even not give any effect at all for your units!). And fighting AI is a nightmare, because it cheats in such a way that it's units move 3 or 4 times more often then your units (endless "good morale" effects). Hell Steed unit is the perfect example. It's high speed, initiative and attack were overwhelming. I had battles in which it obliterated half of my army before I even moved my units. ATB also decreases the role of heroes by making them wait for their turn instead of giving you instant access to your spellbook...
So no thank you. The only good thing that H5 gave us in terms of battle system was the introduction of race specific hero skills like Blood Rage. Or Hero battle abilities (that greatly evolved in H6), which made non-magic Heroes competitive to magic users.
Quote:
in heroes 6 it's like turn 1, turn 2 turn 50... so boring!
I you find traditional, one-move-per-turn battles in Heroes boring, I think you should look for another game, as Heroes games are not about speed, but strategic thinking...
BTW I really like H6 specific ideas like cooldowns or racial abilities (and gauge). I think they should stay in feature installments...
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted April 23, 2013 07:51 PM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 19:53, 23 Apr 2013.
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Quote:
Hero battle abilities
Eh, I don't feel it.
It was way better when pure Might heroes manifested their power through their attack/defense stats.
Quote:
the new Rampart remix is amazing
Where is this theme you speak of?
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted April 23, 2013 09:21 PM |
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted April 23, 2013 09:37 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Hero battle abilities
Eh, I don't feel it.
It was way better when pure Might heroes manifested their power through their attack/defense stats.
I disagree. I'm all for following the Heroes I-II-III trend, but I'd throw V in also. After all, Heroes V was pretty much an extension of III, and most if not all of the added features in V compared to III were good (if only the game had been technically functional, it would have been a great game). I do think Hero has a role to play on the battlefield other than just passively boosting units through his Attack/Defence - but neither IV nor V found the right implication of this. IV's implimentation was horrible, while V's heroic strike was boring and cheasy, so this is definitely a feature I could see getting some attention.
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What will happen now?
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flonembourg
Known Hero
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posted April 23, 2013 10:02 PM |
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Quote:
Heroes is a game that puts it's emphasis on armies of various creaturesQuote:
When i play a might hero army is important, but when i play a magic hero, for example dungeon hero with high spellpower and destruction's spells ,army is just meatshield that allow me to cast all the spells i can to destroy the other army.
So it depends mainly you way of playing.
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No it was not a great idea. TBS are like chess, each move must be accounted for. The initiative bar destroyed any strategic thinking.Quote:
No really? It is just enough to look at the bar of fight to know which creature is going to play before the other one to carefully establish a strategy.
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Fast factions like Inferno literally owned the battlefield.Quote:
Nevertheless inferno is surely one of the worst faction (if it's not the worst) when it came to the creeping and the final battle....
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Battles were decided by who had more luck and morale effects.Quote:
What the matter???? morale is a skill in H5 and luck also, so if the
outcome of a fight is decided by a skill's choice where is the problem? Your enemy can have taken luck and morale but may be you will have had the wisdom to take defense (another good skill like morale)to prevent him to crush you in the first turn.
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Hell Steed unit is the perfect example. It's high speed, initiative and attack were overwhelming. I had battles in which it obliterated half of my army before I even moved my units.Quote:
I agree with you it's why i said "but the problem was the difference of initiative between a zombie and a fury".
Quote:
ATB also decreases the role of heroes by making them wait for their turn instead of giving you instant access to your spellbook...Quote:
Again agree with you but if all the creaures had an initiative between 9-12 that will be not a problem.
Quote:
BTW I really like H6 specific ideas like cooldowns or racial abilities (and gauge). I think they should stay in feature installments...
There's good and bad things in heroes 6 like others heroes.
Racial abilities is quite good but frankly necromancy just a healing!!! Wait this is not Haven,I have an open spirit but there 's a limit.
And cooldown would never have existed if they (ubi or blackhole)hadn't supressed the mage guild.
Quote:
I you find traditional, one-move-per-turn battles in Heroes boring, I think you should look for another game, as Heroes games are not about speed, but strategic thinking...
i know heroes games are about strategic thinking, but come on!!!! Heroes 6 is one of the heroes game where strategic thinking is reduced to the maximum.
All the shooters have no range penalty and no limitation in shots, you can convert all you want in your faction to increase growth, recruiting from any of your castles and teleport your hero to the infinity so you didn't need to take logistic in consideration...
all this point were debated since 2011 so i am not longer going to extend over the subject.
My point is heroes VI should take the good ideas of any heroes from 3 to 6 (not only the 3).
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted April 23, 2013 11:09 PM |
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The new theme is nice, like it
PS: Dunno If it's my case alone, but the H6 website does not load. What a bugged and bad website
PS: flonembourg, please, put '/' on the quote tag that ends of the quote please!
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