Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info mods forum | HOMM4: info CTG forum | HOMM5: info mods forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Heroes V Creeping Secrets
Thread: Heroes V Creeping Secrets This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
zaio-baio
zaio-baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted August 23, 2013 01:54 PM bonus applied by Elvin on 24 Aug 2013.
Edited by zaio-baio at 11:21, 24 Aug 2013.

Heroes V Creeping Secrets

Hi guys,

Heroes V is practically a dead game now, so i decided to share with you one of my best creeping techniques

Of course everyone is free to join me and reveal some good abuses


The arcane crystal abuse


Here is how to creep full utopia week 1 with lvl 1 hero:

- you need the arcane crystal spell and 7 stacks of 1 unit.


1.Notice the placement of the peasants, you lure the dragons to attack those 2 peasants that stay next to each other, instead of attacking the cornered peasants.






2. No matter the starting positions of the dragons at least 1 cornered peasant will survive. Cast Arcane crystal on the diagonal tile that's right next to that peasant. It will be always free too






3. The dragons wait instead of attacking the crystal. That's the key thing. Start hitting them with normal attacks.






4. Finish off the last dragon and get the reward



Here is the Replay. I use higher lvl hero, because its faster.




Now the arcane crystal abuse also works vs lots of the flying units in the game, here the same thing vs shadow + black dragons.


1. Use the same placement as in Utopia.






2. Cast arcane crystal on that same spot.






3. Kill all dragons with just normal attacks to save mana.

]

Replay. Again i use higher lvl hero just to save time.




Vs phoenixes you will need a different unit placement:


1. The phoenixes are too fast and you need to make sure that they wont occupy at least one of those needed diagonal tiles.







2. Cast the arcane crystal and from now on its same as in Utopia.






3. Finish all the phoenixes.




ReplayPhoenixes





Flying units with less then 9 speed are the easiest.


1. You need only 1 unit. Place it in the corner.






2. Cast arcane crystal on the diagonal tile.






3. Normal attack till you get bored.





ReplayArchAngels
ReplayDjinns
ReplayWyverns



In general this thing does work vs basic units and their original upgrades( angels, archangels, devils, archdevils, green drags, emerald drags...), if you try it vs red dragons, seraphs, crystal dragons etc you will be owned. Also works only vs flyers, walking units like treants, cyclopses and so on will attack the crystal.


P.S.

The blade barrier spell is also abuseable and works vs walking units But it requires basic summoning + some spellpower to be effective.

ReplayVsTreants
VsArchdevils
VsPalas


 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Maciek
Maciek


Known Hero
posted August 23, 2013 03:23 PM

Here's one:

Get a Knight with Guardian Angel and Last Stand and go into any battle with a stack of 4 unupgraded Goblins and nothing else. After the Goblins are reduced to 1, they will change sides but your hero won't leave the battlefield.

The only creatures you won't beat this way are... unupgraged Goblins!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted August 23, 2013 03:30 PM

Too funny, but maybe you should have called this thread Secrets of Exploitation? Hmm, sounds like that name would have been a Hero perk; maybe a boost to Diplomacy chances.

I have to ask; how many times did it take your level one Hero to kill all the Dragons. Whatever the number you've got patience I do not possess.

I have put the Crystal next to shooters since it makes them run and made several single-peasant stacks to buy turns for my shooters but nothing close to that DU plan.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
zaio-baio
zaio-baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted August 23, 2013 03:54 PM
Edited by zaio-baio at 17:23, 23 Aug 2013.

@Markkur

If you have to kill 10 - 20 lvl 6-7 units its not that slow. Max Utopia takes about 15 mins with lvl 1 hero ( you need to hit a dragon 10 times to kill it).

I used lvl 17 hero or so in the replay, so i was killing about a dragon each hit.


 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
SKPRIMUS
SKPRIMUS


Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
posted August 24, 2013 08:16 AM

That is funny & reminds me of some creeping replays with crystal that Maniek posted on the http://h5.ligaheroes.pl/ site run by albolabris.

In the thread ( http://forum.ligaheroes.pl/viewforum.php?f=34&sid=c335f2d736202c31c092bde14f272604 - use translate if no understand Polish ), Maniek had some replays showing crystal abuse with some terrain help & also has a replay on 1st wk utopia, cyclops, devils, rajas.  I didn't think much of it at the time as it seemed lucky terrain abuse, but now that it seems even peasants can abuse it without lucky terrain?, then it seems every player that aspires to be great at MP must master these creeping exploits.

Luckily H5 sorta being "dead" (in English speaking world) means that all exploits & bugs can be revealed

@Maciek, that guardian angel, last stand, gobs trick: so what happens to your hero when battle ends?

@Markkur, agree about "Secrets of Exploitation"  In the end, creeping exploits need to known by those that want to be great & maybe even known by those that make good maps.
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Maciek
Maciek


Known Hero
posted August 24, 2013 02:31 PM
Edited by Maciek at 14:31, 24 Aug 2013.

The hero gets experience and stands where he stood with what you didn't field. If he had nothing except those 4 Goblins, he'll stand there with no units.

A hero without units can't end tactics phase if he enters combat, but he can still fight (and win) battles in quick combat. You may need Shackles of War or no Tavern built to prevent him from fleeing.

The trick can work with some more Goblins plus a weak damaging spell instead of Last Stand, but then there's a risk that something kills all your Goblins in one hit. And then Guardian Angel resurrects them for your enemy and you lose.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
zaio-baio
zaio-baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted August 24, 2013 04:13 PM
Edited by zaio-baio at 16:55, 24 Aug 2013.

Maciek said:
The hero gets experience and stands where he stood with what you didn't field. If he had nothing except those 4 Goblins, he'll stand there with no units.

A hero without units can't end tactics phase if he enters combat, but he can still fight (and win) battles in quick combat. You may need Shackles of War or no Tavern built to prevent him from fleeing.

The trick can work with some more Goblins plus a weak damaging spell instead of Last Stand, but then there's a risk that something kills all your Goblins in one hit. And then Guardian Angel resurrects them for your enemy and you lose.


That very nice actually, you can start the combat fielding 6 stacks of 4 gobos with last stand, and keep 1 big stack of goblins out of the field. If you happen to have swift mind too then you can cast some dmging spell on those goblins before your opps hero or troops play
This could easily be the strongest combo in the game.

Also if you attack your opp in the castle then the towers will dmg the goblins before any1 plays .

P.S
Will work best with the armageddon spell, 6 stacks of 4 goblins, when you cast arma then they will all betray you, so you get undeafeatable hero

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted August 24, 2013 04:21 PM

SKPRIMUS said:
 In the end, creeping exploits need to known by those that want to be great & maybe even known by those that make good maps.


It's no secret that I'm a Map-maker and not a Battle-Master like all here atm. Although I can understand the importance of being aware of all exploits (for competition's sake) or that "you Battle-Masters WILL seek-out all possible challenges", but I wonder about your comment about "Good" Maps..

From my Mapmaking perspective; I "might" need to know about these loopholes but even then, only in trying to prevent them from derailing my intent. i.e.Say banning the Crystal, if I think it defeats my rules.

However, stuff like this I would more likely think in terms of an agreement whether I'm in the know or not; that this is more about individual fun and not about bypassing reasonable Map design and expectation.

I would hate to think that there's a long list of Dev. mistakes that everyone knows except most Mapmakers and the Gamers take advantage of those and then that result becomes part of the feedback-loop to us when It is said; "a map is no good".

Btw, I don't think this is true, I sure "trust" not. Things that UBI/Nival got wrong I try to completely avoid when I can.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted August 24, 2013 04:27 PM

This is just unbelievable, QP for the author!
____________
The future of Heroes 3 is here!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Maciek
Maciek


Known Hero
posted August 24, 2013 04:34 PM
Edited by Maciek at 16:35, 24 Aug 2013.

@Zaio-baio: With Last Stand, you don't need to play first. Even if enemy strikes first with Master Hunters, Succubuses with Hellfire or something like that, the Goblins will still manage to switch sides before they die. But without Last Stand you're right that 6 stacks are safer.

Markkur said:
From my Mapmaking perspective; I "might" need to know about these loopholes but even then, only in trying to prevent them from derailing my intent. i.e.Say banning the Crystal, if I think it defeats my rules.

Not nesseserily banning completely. If you know something can help players a lot, you may want to make it a reward for some long quest or put it behind some strong guards. Generally, give the skill/spell/creatures some special place.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 24, 2013 04:56 PM

Hehe I miss those days Here are some tricks of mine.



- Leave just a little room between gremlins and gargoyles, that limits the room in which the mines will appear with expert firetrap. More condensed mines, more pain for large units



- Split your mages, each fist of wrath from each does 36 dmg! That is because the damage formula for a stack is logarithmic and gets reduced as the stack grows. Likewise one sprite's wasp swarm does 12 dmg.



- If you leave exactly 2 tiles free in the last row, that is where your summoned phoenix will appear. If you do not leave 2 tiles free, the phoenix ill be summoned on the front row instead.

- You can manipulate the odds to get a lvl 3 spell with secrets of destruction. Visit a level 2 guild prior to getting the skill, secrets of destruction cannot give you a spell you already have

- If you have fireball or circle of winter, clearing hunters becomes a piece of cake. Attack with 7 stacks of a single unit and the hunters will be split in 4 stacks. Any 3x3 aoe spell will hit two of their stacks so with a little spellpower you can finish the battle in two spells.

- Several titans can take on ridiculous amounts of armies with arcane armour and regeneration or vampirism. Better yet if you give them initiative and defense mini artifacts.

- If you equip dragon necklace you improve the odds of your high druids acting before your ranger. That means they can increase your spellpower before your hero acts with an imbued rain of arrows.

- Waiting and haste allow your unit to trigger regeneration more times than if you played normally. Regeneration does not heal you once per turn, it heals you whenever your unit's turn comes.

- If you place an arcane crystal adjacent to a rakshasa kshatra and you attack it, its retaliation will hit the crystal and damage all adjacent targets.

- You can bypass magical immunity with fist of wrath and arcane crystal.

Plenty of little tricks out there.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
zaio-baio
zaio-baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted August 24, 2013 05:00 PM
Edited by zaio-baio at 18:40, 24 Aug 2013.

@Maciek

Could they betray before fiery wrath triggers ?

If they can then thats the best combo

Edit: Muhahaha

Edit: Thx for the shiny star and the test map

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Maciek
Maciek


Known Hero
posted August 24, 2013 05:26 PM

Sure. But I think you already tried it.
Here is a test map and replays. One replay with Last Stand and the other without Last Stand when not everything goes as planned.

Warmonger said:
This is just unbelievable, QP for the author!

Seconded! Nice presentation, Zaio.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
SKPRIMUS
SKPRIMUS


Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
posted August 24, 2013 11:41 PM
Edited by SKPRIMUS at 23:56, 24 Aug 2013.

markkur said:
SKPRIMUS said:
 In the end, creeping exploits need to known by those that want to be great & maybe even known by those that make good maps.


It's no secret that I'm a Map-maker and not a Battle-Master like all here atm. Although I can understand the importance of being aware of all exploits (for competition's sake) or that "you Battle-Masters WILL seek-out all possible challenges", but I wonder about your comment about "Good" Maps..

From my Mapmaking perspective; I "might" need to know about these loopholes but even then, only in trying to prevent them from derailing my intent. i.e.Say banning the Crystal, if I think it defeats my rules.

However, stuff like this I would more likely think in terms of an agreement whether I'm in the know or not; that this is more about individual fun and not about bypassing reasonable Map design and expectation.

I would hate to think that there's a long list of Dev. mistakes that everyone knows except most Mapmakers and the Gamers take advantage of those and then that result becomes part of the feedback-loop to us when It is said; "a map is no good".

Btw, I don't think this is true, I sure "trust" not. Things that UBI/Nival got wrong I try to completely avoid when I can.
Only half-joking since no point doing extreme exploits in Single-player, all I thought was don't put Drag Utopia near start & hard monster guards should be mixed creatures (not all large same type)...I did state my preference for mixed guards already before & I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one  Only the dedicated would know/develop/test that crystal creeping exploit & don't know how Maciek ever thought that guardian/gobs idea up! {I would imagine it requires heaps of effort/time to think of those!}

oh, & avoid allying orcs with knights
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
zaio-baio
zaio-baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted August 25, 2013 12:40 PM
Edited by zaio-baio at 13:05, 25 Aug 2013.

So lets continue with the creeping techniques



How to creep Rune Patriarchs early week 2 using the Haven faction?



Note: I play in single player with random hero build, also the warmachines are just for decoration, as i dont have the warmachine skill. You can get way more optimized builds, but the point here is to win with crappy skills. Other factions can do it too, just a bit differently.


1.The rune patriarchs will always cast a firewall, unless you place your troops like this:



What matters here is that the crossbows are in the corner and the squires are right in front of them.




2. The patriarchs will be so surprised that they wont use their firewall. Ever.






3.Shoot with your crossbows and move the peasants next to the patriarchs to block them.






4.Even when blocked they wont cast firewall






5. With squires on the field you wont take much damage before winning the combat.






If you happen to have some wind elementals it will be even easier.

Here the replays, creeping all 4 stacks of rune patriarchs on the "Art of strategy" map.
Replay1
Replay2
Replay3
Replay4

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
zaio-baio
zaio-baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted August 25, 2013 03:52 PM


oh, & avoid allying orcs with knights


You can buy an orc hero from your tavern, they start with goblins


 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Maciek
Maciek


Known Hero
posted August 25, 2013 07:25 PM

Or attack neutral goblins - some of them will join you.
Or buy a knight from your tavern and get lots of immortality potions goblins from your town.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Buji
Buji


Known Hero
posted August 26, 2013 02:48 PM

A well known abuse but should be mentioned here too:

2 Vampires, Last Stand and Raise Dead vs 4 Square (living) Monsters

Pretty much self-explanatory but for all who dont know:

Put the Vampires in one corner so only one unit at a time is able to reach them, let them attack you, cast raise dead until your vamps are down to only 4 hp and let their leech ability do the ressurecting. Attack with Hero to finish them.

Might take a while but you can take out utopias (non ghostdragon ones -> sacrifice a hero before) or lots of other difficult 6-7 tier enemies early on

I have a replay or two but can't upload it but I'm sure alot of HC members have done this before so if anyone wanna upload it

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
SKPRIMUS
SKPRIMUS


Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
posted August 31, 2013 02:53 PM

well I fooled around with that crystal abuse for utopias (using Elvin's Utopia Duel map), it is weird how it works for 1 stack of 1-4 conscripts,

BUT if stack is 5 or more, then the dragons attack anyway!  
Same will work with 1 stack of 3 xbows or 1 stack of 1 vindicator but not if stack is greater!

Weird who the heck would program it like that? (unless they wanted to exploit it?!?)

"the point here is to win with crappy builds" - yeah, makes logistics more useful, nice one about that rune pat creeping, gees there must be a number of creeping exploits based on computer actions - how can anyone play a real game agst another stranger anymore (or even in the past as I'm sure someone must have known)?
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
EvilLoynis
EvilLoynis


Famous Hero
The Dark Shadow
posted October 15, 2013 04:11 AM

SKPRIMUS said:
well I fooled around with that crystal abuse for utopias (using Elvin's Utopia Duel map), it is weird how it works for 1 stack of 1-4 conscripts,

BUT if stack is 5 or more, then the dragons attack anyway!  
Same will work with 1 stack of 3 xbows or 1 stack of 1 vindicator but not if stack is greater!

Weird who the heck would program it like that? (unless they wanted to exploit it?!?)



 Hey all I bought H5 bundle a while ago on gog.com for 15 bucks as I had decided to give it another try.

 Sadly mistakes/exploits like this have just about turned me off the whole series now that it's in hands I can no longer trust.

 I just have no idea how the programming was so messed up to allow this kind of thing to happen.  It makes me wonder why a patch hasn't been released to fix it and to actually streamline certain things like the skill wheel between versions.

 I mean the seemed to make some decent improvements in Tribes but then didn't go back and patch the original so that it could have a good flow.  I mean think how certain ultimate skill paths changed and then think how damn annoying it would be to do anything but play only one version.

 Also having certain ultimates NOT available to a handful of Heroes is just dumb.  Also NOT letting Sylvans take Archery if they want their ultimate is just, well cannot even think of a word to say how stupid.
____________

"I am both selfish and instictive.  I value nature and the world around me as means to an end as well as an end in itself; at best I ... too long to display...

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0852 seconds