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| Thread: Death penalty yes or no? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted September 27, 2014 12:15 AM |
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Thanks, Joonas. I take comfort in knowing you wish to see me suffer.
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted September 27, 2014 12:16 AM |
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I think your definition of hell is a bit different from mine 
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted September 27, 2014 12:36 AM |
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Edited by Corribus at 00:36, 27 Sep 2014.
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@Joonas
A reminder:
Quote:
The Foundation: Respect.
* An attitude of consideration and appreciation.
* Courteous regard for people's feelings, opinions and actions.
6) NO provocation or aggravation.
Provocation is unfriendly behavior that causes anger or resentment from others. Aggravation is causing, continuing or increasing irritation or trouble. This includes being a detriment to the peacekeeping of the forums.
Each member is solely responsible for their own conduct - no amount of provocation or aggravation from someone else will justify the action of breaking the rules. Instead of responding to a member who has offended you, alert a moderator about this situation and let them deal with it, keeping you out of trouble.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted September 27, 2014 10:54 AM |
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Edited by Minion at 10:57, 27 Sep 2014.
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@Joonas. I don't believe in the martyrdom becoming enough of an issue, that it would be radically worse. Neither do I believe it to be an efficient deterrent for criminals - these things happen regardless. My point is mainly that for me this question isn't moral, as in does the mass murderer have right to live. I want the most convenient way to remove such individuals from the society. (and therefore currently I oppose death penalty, haha, that probably isn't clear here. It is too expensive and it really serves no benefits)
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted September 27, 2014 08:08 PM |
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Yes. For predefined specific crimes for sure.
You really think you can "heal" someone who rapes 5 year old girls?
You really think you can "heal" a serial killer?
Yes, I think every living creature on this planet has the right to live. But by committing crimes like those above, you should have forfeited this right.
And I think it is absolute nonsense to sentence someone to death, but keep him in prison for 10-20 years first and then kill him.
Adjucated --> same day enforced.
Advantage:
- much lesser and shorter court proceedings,
- much lesser overcrowed prisons
- much lesser costs for the taxpayers
- much lesser earnings for the lawyers ( )
Disadvantage:
- there could be an innocent victim getting hit by this system aswell
--> But this happens for sure with the current system also
--> This happens during every war (collateral damage) and no one cares
--> This counts for every victim of a death crime aswell...
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 27, 2014 08:15 PM |
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angelito said:
- much lesser overcrowed prisons
this is the only statement in your opinion that doesn't make sense. death row inmates are only a tiny fraction of the much larger general population of prisons.
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted September 27, 2014 09:23 PM |
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Quote:
this is the only statement in your opinion that doesn't make sense. death row inmates are only a tiny fraction of the much larger general population of prisons.
Pacify them all, juvaniles and petty offenders get the snip and free to go, second time offenders get the chop, (or the female equivalent in both cases) multiple offenders get put to sleep, and serial killers or psychos get tortured, such as severing of limbs and having their bone marrows sucked out (the torturer will get the same punishment, but a deferred one as long as s/he does the job) and then have their bodies donated to science.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 28, 2014 03:44 AM |
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lol, yeah, that's not as bad as what the bad guys did. way to channel your inner serial killer, tsar. 
i just think it's funny, when people act like they aren't as bad as the bad guys, then say/post stuff like that.
i wonder, what you have in your past, tsar, that could make that kind of thing justifiable, to you. not that i'm judging you in a negative way; i just think people who take the moral high road, and then say/post stuff like that... it really cracks me up. 
LOL, suck out the bone marrow. nice. and creative.
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Baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted September 28, 2014 05:56 AM |
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Quote:
Advantage:
- much lesser and shorter court proceedings,
- much lesser overcrowed prisons
- much lesser costs for the taxpayers
But none of these are true, man.
Not even the one about the lawyers, I think.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Sal
Famous Hero
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posted September 28, 2014 06:17 AM |
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Edited by Sal at 06:33, 28 Sep 2014.
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Baklava said:
But none of these are true, man.
How aren't they true?
You base all three of your studies on USA only, while China and Iran have the lead in death executions. And where those sentences are executed shortly after sentence is pronounced, and where the family even pays the bullet or the rope.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted September 28, 2014 06:31 AM |
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Quote:
Take Iran or China
I think I'll pass, thank you.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Sal
Famous Hero
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posted September 28, 2014 06:37 AM |
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To pass what? I am not arguing about the death sentence from a moral perspective, but Angelito's argument about cost, compared to life prison.
If you take the two countries which have the lead on this matter, there is no comparison possible.
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kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted September 28, 2014 08:04 AM |
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Edited by kayna at 08:06, 28 Sep 2014.
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angelito said:
You really think you can "heal" someone who rapes 5 year old girls?
You really think you can "heal" a serial killer?
Meh. I'm not a fan of these "mental illnesses". Where I live, they now tell us 1 out of 3 among us are mentally ill. 10 years ago I could walk the streets of montreal and see paid advertisement saying 1 out of 9 among us were mentally ill. 25 years ago they said 1 out of 100 was mentally ill.
Most of those killers and such are more often made than born. Ted Bundy isn't a known case for nothing; he's known for having lived a good and fun childhood, a very rare occurrence among his killer kind. Most people like that were beaten-molested-generally-treated-like-snow all their lives and some of them can be healed, some can't, but a lot can certainly be prevented.
Why the law often put these in jail but not those that mistreated them and why are they manipulating us into seeing them as black and white evil like they don't want us to understand what made them this way are two good questions worth investigating.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 28, 2014 10:19 AM |
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kayna brings up a very good point. the very best prevention for criminality, and violence, is to fix how children are raised; as a race. only by fixing where the problem stems from, can the positive end result be seen.
the family dynamic must be fixed; the way that society affects children must be fixed; the way they are taught, must be fixed. violence will forever be a cycle, until the changes are made, at the source.
the issue is, there are far too many things wrong with people, to be able to implement what must be done to prevent this kind of behavior from ever happening(aside from the genetically predispositioned and mental deterioration of certain people that has to be taken into account, of course). the cycle of humanity, as i see it, can never really be fixed. which is why such things as the death penalty, prisons, and the like, are used today. because humanity doesn't have the time, the collective moral desire, or the tolerance and discipline, to change from within.
so instead, the proverbial band-aid on a bullet wound(prisons, death penalty, on and on and on, etc). lol, the more i think about it, everything humanity is, and has always been, and nearly everything they've created, has been a band-aid on a bullet wound.
it sure is nice to dream, though.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted September 28, 2014 11:01 AM |
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Sal said:
Baklava said:
But none of these are true, man.
How aren't they true?
You base all three of your studies on USA only, while China and Iran have the lead in death executions. And where those sentences are executed shortly after sentence is pronounced, and where the family even pays the bullet or the rope.
Yes, but that "swiftness" comes within a package of authoritarianism. I don't think Angelito will agree to that package, just for the sake of quick executions. When we discuss death penalty, we discuss it within a context of democratic regimes with rights of the individual. He also acknowledges those rights, hence, he says you forfeit them if you do this and that.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted September 28, 2014 12:01 PM |
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@sal
Bak argued that life in prison is cheaper than death penalty because the latter requires more expensive trials. So Iran is not a good example of why death penalties are cheaper.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted September 28, 2014 12:02 PM |
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Edited by Baklava at 12:05, 28 Sep 2014.
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What Artu and Gen-man said.
My studies don't include countries other than the US because it's getting pretty hard to find the death sentence elsewhere in the civilized world anymore. Take a look at this map.
(Belarus? More like Yolorus amirite)
Orange countries officially have the death penalty but it hasn't been applied in the past 10 years. Blue ones banned it. Red ones... well, you get the drill.
As you can see, there aren't that many representatives of democratic states exhibiting capital punishment. Basically, USA and Japan are the only developed democratic countries that still cling to the thing.
Swift justice aside, even this doesn't mean it's more economical to kill people off. A prisoner in a third world jail costs his country far less than a US prisoner costs the US. You couldn't make these kind of financial studies for these other countries on the list. It's untransparent enough in the US, now imagine going around Iran, asking to view state fiscal records publicly.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted September 28, 2014 12:58 PM |
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 28, 2014 01:35 PM |
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Baklava said:
Take a look at this map.
the green countries, i'm guessing, is a free-for-all where anyone caught even loitering is beaten to death by a pack of little kids with wooden mallets? 
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted September 28, 2014 01:53 PM |
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Personally I don't really believe in deterrence, if you're keeping people in line with fear then you're doing something wrong. It may seem necessary to maintain the vast diverse population, but that don't make it a good system.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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