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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Regarding the Magic System
Thread: Regarding the Magic System This thread is 9 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 · «PREV
Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted November 23, 2014 09:33 PM
Edited by Galaad at 21:41, 23 Nov 2014.

mvassilev said:
It can be, if the enemy hero has a large enough army and you only have one week's worth of units in your town

The day 7 attack strategy, hurts doesn't it ?
This is exactly why I have a strong enough secondary hero along with that army in the castle, making the max of battles as early as possible to gain experience and better stats. If you get attacked let's say week 3, and your "main" (I use brackets here because I usually have many of those) hero is far away, well, if he's far away he can't protect the castle if you see what I mean. Casting TP for me in such a situation is ridiculously easy and kills all you have to do to prevent it. I don't consider boring getting a secondary hero to fight against the top hero enemy. He's behind a castle, which is a huge advantage for defensive gameplay with arrow towers and overall protection, with preferably a 2/1 and half week/s of creatures (I usually have an extra of low tier tanks), so against the AI which is pretty dumb you can win everytime. Then your second hero gains lots of XP and saved the day. This kind of situations, that are source of extreme excitement to me, might be affected with the TP easy-pizzy stuff. I like to plan on long shots in strategy game, and I have a right to make horrible decisions that will lead to complete suicide too !

Quote:
or if you need to use your town's units to reinforce your hero's losses.

Hero's losses to me are replaced the day after the siege if battle won successfully, full night to recover mana, and ready on day 1 with fresh army and XP from the night

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted November 23, 2014 10:35 PM

mvassilev said:
Yes, I want to be able to avoid the annoying and frustrating parts of the game. Is that so wrong?


sorry lol, but I guess one man's annoyance and frustration is another man's rare opportunity to engage in planning and put his brain to work

might just be me, but I think what's really annoying and frustrating is a game so streamlined that it basically plays itself, and takes players like us for idiots - that applies to Heroes 6's easy-access resurrection, hero respecs, dumbed down economy, and yes, town portal

this was always supposed to be a fairly slow-paced and intellectual strategy game, not Call of Duty 23 lol

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 23, 2014 11:08 PM
Edited by Stevie at 23:09, 23 Nov 2014.

Mvassilev said:
Stevie said:
Would you like your own teleport spell to go right in front of the enemy's town Mvass? Nah, cuz then you'd have to conquer it... I know! Why don't we add a spell so you can conquer it too?
There's no need to be rude, Stevie.


Didn't meant to be rude, just wanted to point out like Verriker that the game should make the player think and strategize more. Teleport is just an easy and ridiculously cheesy way to avoid any kind of map play. You just conveniently teleport to defend every time your town's in danger. You won't ever consider creating secondary parties or postpone objectives with your main hero to come back and defend when there's such a risk free card that you can always play. That is poor strategy and poor game design.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted November 23, 2014 11:18 PM

verriker said:
alcibiades said:
The the lack of ability to transport yourself from one town to another but having to run from one end of the map and then back again manually completely destroyed any purpose or fun of playing large maps for me.


that's interesting lol, very surprised to hear this from you who I think usually knows what he's talking about design-wise,

I'd say the exact opposite: the H6 dumbass town portal feature where you can just hop and skip from town to town, collecting up all your forces with ease, annihilated the strategy of the game and completely trivialized the purpose of having a large adventure map

Well as you should well know, we as a community is far from a homogenous group and we like to play the game differently. I understand that Town Portal can be a bore for players who like to engage in even-leveled matches against other human players, because then indeed Town Portal does kill a large part of the tactical element of the game. But that was not the kind of games I enjoyed to play in H3. I liked to play huge epic-styled maps with storylines where it was never a question of beating the opponent on a 1:1 basis but rather a question of overcoming an AI put in place with massive advantages working for him, and where AI would often be locked in place waiting for you to come to him. But even in H5 where I generally played much smaller maps, life without a proper town portal was an utter drag for me.

But obviously the easy and only correct solution is to make Town Portal a feature you can turn on or off. Otherwise, there'll always be half of the fan group being left unsatisfied.
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GenyaArikado
GenyaArikado


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted November 24, 2014 03:00 AM

verriker said:
yeah guys you're right, the actual strategy part of this strategy game series is just too boring and taxing for me,
who could be bothered, let's cut it all down to reductive combat tactics and roleplaying elements instead lol


Opinions are like anuses. Everyone has one. In your case your attitude also smells like one. But it's alright, Heroes current developers dont care about your kind either way.

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted November 24, 2014 05:41 AM

GenyaArikado said:
Opinions are like anuses. Everyone has one. In your case your attitude also smells like one. But it's alright, Heroes current developers dont care about your kind either way.


well while commentary on the bad smell of other people's posts is incredibly rich coming from you,
I'd rather not indulge mindless personal attacks and instead have a worthwhile discussion actually explaining why you like town portal and why my "kind" (my "kind" lol? fans of NWC Heroes, or Scottish people? lmao) are wrong

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted November 24, 2014 05:46 AM

Play nice guys
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted November 24, 2014 08:13 AM
Edited by Galaad at 08:23, 24 Nov 2014.

GenyaArikado said:
Opinions are like anuses. Everyone has one. In your case your attitude also smells like one. But it's alright, Heroes current developers dont care about your kind either way.

Elvin said:
Play nice guys

... So basically it is ok to compare other forum members opinions to anuses and be "racist" towards NWC admirers. Nice
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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted November 24, 2014 08:51 AM

it's alright dude, my posts about TP were phrased disrespectfully as well so I'm sorry and I'll take care to improve my tone,
although Alc's reply to me is indeed about a million times more convincing than the nonsense anus talk of the other guy lol

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted November 24, 2014 08:53 AM

No it's not. You may be sour but you bring up valid points.
GenyaArikado has the habit of totally lacking any kind of respect in his posts and most are just direct offense when not animated gifs spamming from what I read.
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted November 24, 2014 09:14 AM

Galaad said:
... So basically it is ok to compare other forum members opinions to anuses and be "racist" towards NWC admirers. Nice


Without passing any judgment about what has been written in the previous set of posts, there is a generic saying:

Opinions are like asses; everyone has one and they all stink.

It basically means that whenever you have an opinion about something, it's not better or worse than anyone else's opinion. The irony is that it applies to the very post which stated it as well .

It might have been worded somewhat poorly and not everyone may be familiar with the saying at all, so it may come across as rather blunt.

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RMZ1989
RMZ1989


Supreme Hero
posted November 24, 2014 10:05 AM
Edited by RMZ1989 at 10:06, 24 Nov 2014.

Maurice said:

Opinions are like asses; There are good ones and bad ones.


There, fixed that for you.
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JoonasTo
JoonasTo


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted November 24, 2014 10:22 AM

The town portal of H3 was the best part of the singleplayer game in it by far.

Also one of the worst parts of multi
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Zombi_Wizzard
Zombi_Wizzard


Famous Hero
posted November 26, 2014 01:02 AM

while i agree that town portal is bad for balance reasons - it's one of those "op" things i miss in new heroes games. Spells like fly and dimension door were awsome, and mass frenzy....and blind as a tier 2 spell...

then there were things like view earth and scuttle boat ... and protections (those were good IF you got the right one against right enemy AND he didn't have any other than damage dealing spells).

which brings me in on subject of random spells ... imo highly situational spells like the ones mentioned above don't realy work with random spell system, coz you might get screwed bad. witle on the other hand if you have wery general spells (like haste), random spell system works very good and offers loads of replayability - you may never know what you get, but it's always usefull in one way or the other, and you need to adapt. If spell is situational there's no adapting - so you have destroy undead ... and there's no undead - how are you gonna adapt?  

opposite is true if you have system where you pick your spells - here "adapting" part is true for picking right spell at right time - so spells must be all situational as much as they can. Otherwise there's no replayability - you always choose same spells - which is why H6 didn't work.
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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted November 26, 2014 01:37 AM

JoonasTo said:
The town portal of H3 was the best part of the singleplayer game in it by far.

Also one of the worst parts of multi


Zombi_Wizzard said:
while i agree that town portal is bad for balance reasons - it's one of those "op" things i miss in new heroes games. Spells like fly and dimension door were awsome, and mass frenzy....and blind as a tier 2 spell...


nah dudes, we weren't talking about the Town Portal spell hue hue hue, that's fine IMO because it's rare and costly
we meant the Town Portal structure they're allowing people to build in all towns since Heroes 6, which sucks because it's cheap

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kayna
kayna


Supreme Hero
posted November 27, 2014 12:32 AM

To me there's two kind of HOMM players ; those that emphasis on the battle itself and those that tries to win via every other aspect of the game ( economy, expanding, etc ) I wont brag because my win ratio on normal maps isn't impressive but when I manage to hold off those map oriented people and then they see my army knocking at their door they often quit the game or press auto battle when the showdown finally happens ; considering how just one game can last a whole god damn day I say ..l.. 'em!

So yeah, I understand why map oriented people doesn't like the town portal cheese but as long as they early quit games or let their army be controlled by the AI I will completely disregard their opinions, I've wasted enough time on them as it is!

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Zombi_Wizzard
Zombi_Wizzard


Famous Hero
posted November 27, 2014 06:14 PM

kayna said:
To me there's two kind of HOMM players ; those that emphasis on the battle itself and those that tries to win via every other aspect of the game ( economy, expanding, etc )


Realy? Like it or not truth is a game of heroes is majority of time spent on strategic map and town building, and only a small margin spent on actual battles - those are important part, but usualy on small maps you get one decicive battle and that's it. Normaly the result will be determined before the battle even starts - like in all strategy and war games realy (and in real world tactics also). Yes sometimes gets realy close, and those times are interasting, but end of the day, winner will win because of desisions made on strategic map not on battle. And yes indeed! town portal, as it was in H6 ruined a lot of strategy. Knowing when to fight, and when not to, choosing battleground was always decicive factor in almost all historical battles.

kayna said:
I wont brag because my win ratio on normal maps isn't impressive


realy? i wonder why is that? Trust me and work on your "map orientation" and you will do much better. Or H5 and H6 had that great modes called  Duel - you can play that if you like only battle. Even i like battles very much, and play this mode from time to time - so if that's your thing - awsome. But those that like whole strategy package should be able to have it aswell.

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kayna
kayna


Supreme Hero
posted November 29, 2014 03:43 PM

*shrug* What I said is true. What you said is also true. Anyways. I liked the Heroes 6 lvl up system, where spells were equal to warrior techniques. The spells were slightly better but also costed mana. If people took the same spells in H6 it's because the skills and spells weren't balanced well enough, and armies weren't diversified enough ( with 2 different upgrades like the old times ).

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Zombi_Wizzard
Zombi_Wizzard


Famous Hero
posted November 29, 2014 09:20 PM

Well to me spells and skills should defenitley be seperate. A lot of people (including me) like random skills, coz it increases replayability. Can they be non-random and still work? sure. It all depends on skills. But atleast i think spell tree and skill tree should be seperate.

Skills are ment to give more passive bonuses to hero or army ... some of wich also makes your spells stronger. The reason (might) activated skills even exist is because, if not, then it would be like H3 and before, where might heroes would have nothing to do, or be forced to learn spells themselves.


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andy_dandy
andy_dandy


Adventuring Hero
posted December 17, 2014 08:38 PM
Edited by andy_dandy at 20:47, 17 Dec 2014.

Zombi_Wizzard said:
Well to me spells and skills should defenitley be seperate. A lot of people (including me) like random skills, coz it increases replayability. Can they be non-random and still work? sure. It all depends on skills. But atleast i think spell tree and skill tree should be seperate.

Skills are ment to give more passive bonuses to hero or army ... some of wich also makes your spells stronger. The reason (might) activated skills even exist is because, if not, then it would be like H3 and before, where might heroes would have nothing to do, or be forced to learn spells themselves.




Oh yes, Mr. Zombie. You're my man. Bring back 3 somewhat random skills to choose from each level up again. That system beats those static skill trees to the ground any day.

I admit I have some hopes for this now. After all the H3 hero stats will return to the game.

When it comes to the Magic system I'd really love to see a resurrection of the H4 one, that I find the most superior in the series by far, but I'm glad they have taken inspiration from H3 at least. That was a very good system too.

I hope they finally will make a worthy heroes game again with number 7, then we can look even further in number 8.

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