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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Battle of the Bluebirds - The Phoenix / Magic Bird issue
Thread: Battle of the Bluebirds - The Phoenix / Magic Bird issue This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT»
alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted September 19, 2014 10:21 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 22:21, 19 Sep 2014.

verriker said:
nobody batted an eyelid to have two powerful bird creatures in Heroes 2, because they were very clearly distinct, but the way Ubisoft managed to write themselves into a corner here sucks

Yes exactly, as you say yourself back then, the creatures were 1) different colour and 2) different level, which does make quite a big importance when it comes to how they come across both visually and with regards to the role they fill in-game.

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DarkLord
DarkLord


Supreme Hero
Fear me..
posted September 19, 2014 10:36 PM

they are 2 giant birds, one has ability to "ressurect"
so are they similar , yes they are!
vote for Strenght! or Fury at least
blue phoenix made me anti _ Balance

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Royin
Royin


Adventuring Hero
posted September 19, 2014 10:40 PM
Edited by Royin at 22:43, 19 Sep 2014.

So when the Phoenix upgrades it goes from Blue > Red?




Edit: I'm a bit sad that people base their vote on the color of one of the units. Racism I say!

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fuChris
fuChris


Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
posted September 19, 2014 10:48 PM

I actually think that if both birds get into the game then they will be quite different size. The magic bird doesn't have to be big at all. Just remember small things can pack quite a punch!
____________
"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted September 19, 2014 10:52 PM
Edited by OhforfSake at 22:54, 19 Sep 2014.

Are they both modeled after the peacock or pheasant?

Edit:
Funny thing, sometimes the modeling after the most harmless, odd looking, creatures can give some of the best results. In my opinion the most impressive creature ever made in the Heroes series is the Ancient Behemoth.

The Behemoth, if you change its head, looks a lot like a sloth (claws and posture match).
____________
Living time backwards

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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted September 19, 2014 11:33 PM

Chicken fight!

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cleglaw
cleglaw


Famous Hero
posted September 19, 2014 11:41 PM
Edited by cleglaw at 23:50, 19 Sep 2014.

community have spoken about this before, that we dont want blue themed phoenix. im really heart broken now. people who say phoenix not fititng in sylvan is now justified in my eyes. i see no connection between light-nature. same goes for the sun deer.

light-sprit? really? is this the kind of phoenix i get? its like a joke, feels like a haven spy in sylvan. i am angry!


i just changed my vote to stregth, unicorn is even better then i had dreamed of and is looking like the most connected one to the nature. i dont care if streght has %22.

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Pavijan
Pavijan


Adventuring Hero
posted September 20, 2014 12:08 AM

cleglaw said:
i see no connection between light-nature. same goes for the sun deer.


What are you talking about? Light creates life. Nature=life.

However, as it grows older and more powerful, the sacred bird loses its silver feathers and grows a golden and blazing plumage.

I can't believe! It's exactly as I wanted! Turning my vote back to Balance.

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cleglaw
cleglaw


Famous Hero
posted September 20, 2014 12:28 AM
Edited by cleglaw at 00:43, 20 Sep 2014.

light is elraths not sylanna, after playing h6, i see sun deer as more fitting as a haven unit. and phoenix to asha, making them neutral in sides.. in the end none of them looks close to slyvan.

ps: thanks Stevei for teaching me how to delete my double post.

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 20, 2014 12:32 AM
Edited by Stevie at 00:35, 20 Sep 2014.

Pavijan said:

However, as it grows older and more powerful, the sacred bird loses its silver feathers and grows a golden and blazing plumage.


Marzhin said:
blizz said:
@Marzhin does that mean Phoenix will be a Moonix then?


Upgraded version at least is very likely to be, yes.


Dev talk.

For the ones double posting: Go to that response and select Edit -> Click on the "Delete" button on the far left -> Press Submit.

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lokdron
lokdron


Famous Hero
posted September 20, 2014 12:33 AM
Edited by lokdron at 00:36, 20 Sep 2014.

Pavijan said:
cleglaw said:
i see no connection between light-nature. same goes for the sun deer.


What are you talking about? Light creates life. Nature=life.

However, as it grows older and more powerful, the sacred bird loses its silver feathers and grows a golden and blazing plumage.

I can't believe! It's exactly as I wanted! Turning my vote back to Balance.


Er problem is its still fundamentally connected to asha that is people's problem with it. The same descirption pretty much states it has nothing to do with Sylvan. It should not be in a faction dedicated to the dragon god of earth. The phoenix should be a neutral recruitable or a summon creature that's it.

The units should all be from within said faction. At least the deer lives in the forest maze and is connected to the dragon god of earth. The phoenix does not have said connection.

I would rather strength win than balance but that's out of the window now.

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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted September 20, 2014 12:36 AM

Did nobody else noticed the the glaring lack of information about how the phoenix ended up in sylvan or what its ties are to elven people in its description?????
please don't tell me that "phoenix represents nature life blah blah" i am asking an entirely different thing.
EVERY OTHER sylvan unit that has been featured had a brief note about how and why it belongs there...
but the phoenix description offered nothing!AT ALL!
how weird was that?
can you guys log into the mmh7 site?

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lokdron
lokdron


Famous Hero
posted September 20, 2014 12:39 AM
Edited by lokdron at 00:40, 20 Sep 2014.

ChrisD1 said:
Did nobody else noticed the the glaring lack of information about how the phoenix ended up in sylvan or what its ties are to elven people in its description?????
please don't tell me that "phoenix represents nature life blah blah" i am asking an entirely different thing.
EVERY OTHER sylvan unit that has been featured had a brief note about how and why it belongs there...
but the phoenix description offered nothing!AT ALL!
how weird was that?
can you guys log into the mmh7 site?


Exactly that's why balance votes are dropping and people in the comments are realizing the creature has nothing to do with Sylvan. They just hurt the phoenix's case with that description and balances chances.

Even if I am in the fury camp they should of made a description that helped justifying it to be within the sylvan faction.

I honestly think they added it to get older fans on board but when you examine the lore the phoenix has no reason to be within the faction. When I first saw it in the line up voting let just say I was confused for awhile.

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Royin
Royin


Adventuring Hero
posted September 20, 2014 12:52 AM

lokdron said:
Pavijan said:
cleglaw said:
i see no connection between light-nature. same goes for the sun deer.


What are you talking about? Light creates life. Nature=life.

However, as it grows older and more powerful, the sacred bird loses its silver feathers and grows a golden and blazing plumage.

I can't believe! It's exactly as I wanted! Turning my vote back to Balance.


Er problem is its still fundamentally connected to asha that is people's problem with it. The same descirption pretty much states it has nothing to do with Sylvan. It should not be in a faction dedicated to the dragon god of earth. The phoenix should be a neutral recruitable or a summon creature that's it.

The units should all be from within said faction. At least the deer lives in the forest maze and is connected to the dragon god of earth. The phoenix does not have said connection.


The suggestion of a Phoenix doesn't come out of the blue. It was part of the Sylvan faction in Heroes 1 and 2. I can think of many units that 'didn't fit in' for H5 and H6 but they eventually grew on me and it never was a big issue.

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 20, 2014 12:56 AM




Do you need more arguments?


About the Cycle of Life and Death argument which allegedly supports Phoenix in Sylvan:

-Undead have the Cycle of Life and death too AND they worship Asha directly, not Sylanna. So from that point of view, the undead are better hosts for the Phoenix.

-Even Demons have the Cycle of Life and death. They die and are reborn in Sheogh. But they're patronized by Urgash and not Asha, still Primordial affiliated.

-Haven worships Light by which's power they can Heal and Resurrect, also life and death; And in the Phoenix's description it is also mentioned that is a creature of Light.


So if that life and deat Cycle argument is granted, there are at least 3 factions that fit it equally if not even better.

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lokdron
lokdron


Famous Hero
posted September 20, 2014 12:57 AM
Edited by lokdron at 01:03, 20 Sep 2014.

Royin said:
lokdron said:
Pavijan said:
cleglaw said:
i see no connection between light-nature. same goes for the sun deer.


What are you talking about? Light creates life. Nature=life.

However, as it grows older and more powerful, the sacred bird loses its silver feathers and grows a golden and blazing plumage.

I can't believe! It's exactly as I wanted! Turning my vote back to Balance.


Er problem is its still fundamentally connected to asha that is people's problem with it. The same descirption pretty much states it has nothing to do with Sylvan. It should not be in a faction dedicated to the dragon god of earth. The phoenix should be a neutral recruitable or a summon creature that's it.

The units should all be from within said faction. At least the deer lives in the forest maze and is connected to the dragon god of earth. The phoenix does not have said connection.


The suggestion of a Phoenix doesn't come out of the blue. It was part of the Sylvan faction in Heroes 1 and 2. I can think of many units that 'didn't fit in' for H5 and H6 but they eventually grew on me and it never was a big issue.


Yeah problem is that we are in Ashan now lore wise the phoenix does not fit at all. The deer I can accept since its home is based in the forest maze and deer are commonly connected with nature and the forest. Problem is that with the phoenix its own description pretty much says it does not belong in the faction.

There are loads of people in the comment section wondering why Phoenix is an option since now they released its lore details. As I said the phoenix option in my opinion is to hook older fans that's it it has no other reason to be there.

Since fundamentally lore wise it goes against the faction it should be about sylvanna and the earth/forest not about Asha. Hell Phoenix would make more sense being in necropolis! The cycle of death and rebirth fits them more better. The phoenix in my opinion should be a neutral creature that can be recruitable or a summon.

When I first saw the voting the phoenix choice confused me on great levels as someone who follows the lore. Personally I am blaming the lore details that is now released is partly the reason why balance dropped somewhat in terms of votes and strength went up.

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Royin
Royin


Adventuring Hero
posted September 20, 2014 01:03 AM

lokdron said:
Royin said:
lokdron said:
Pavijan said:
cleglaw said:
i see no connection between light-nature. same goes for the sun deer.


What are you talking about? Light creates life. Nature=life.

However, as it grows older and more powerful, the sacred bird loses its silver feathers and grows a golden and blazing plumage.

I can't believe! It's exactly as I wanted! Turning my vote back to Balance.


Er problem is its still fundamentally connected to asha that is people's problem with it. The same descirption pretty much states it has nothing to do with Sylvan. It should not be in a faction dedicated to the dragon god of earth. The phoenix should be a neutral recruitable or a summon creature that's it.

The units should all be from within said faction. At least the deer lives in the forest maze and is connected to the dragon god of earth. The phoenix does not have said connection.


The suggestion of a Phoenix doesn't come out of the blue. It was part of the Sylvan faction in Heroes 1 and 2. I can think of many units that 'didn't fit in' for H5 and H6 but they eventually grew on me and it never was a big issue.


Yeah problem is that we are in Ashan now lore wise the phoenix does not fit at all. The deer I can accept but the phoenix its own description pretty much says it does not belong in the faction.

There are loads of people in the comment section wondering why Phoenix is an option since now they released its lore details. As I said the phoenix option is to hook older fans that's it.


I'm sure they have a creative writer on the team who can fit it in the lore if that is your biggest concern.

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lokdron
lokdron


Famous Hero
posted September 20, 2014 01:06 AM
Edited by lokdron at 01:13, 20 Sep 2014.

Problem is that fundamentally it doesn't fit and no twisting of writing is going to help they released the lore on the unit today. It says its connected to asha.

All the other units got info on how they are connected with said faction with the Phoenix I don't see it. Personally I was quite interested on how they would justify it when we finally got to creatures part 2. As stevie said the phoenix would even fit in other factions better.

Still what happened today was the opposite people are now switching their votes. Even if I am a fury supporter they did nothing to help the phoenix but damaged the chances of balance winning.

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Royin
Royin


Adventuring Hero
posted September 20, 2014 01:13 AM

lokdron said:
Problem is that fundamentally it doesn't fit and no twisting of writing is going to help they released the lore on the unit today. It says its connected to asha.

All the other units got info on how they are connected with said faction with the Phoenix I don't see it. Personally I was quite interested on how they would justify it when we finally got to creatures part 2.

Still what happened was the opposite.

"The Phoenix is one of the most powerful spirits of Light. It embodies the primal life-force, indomitable, and ever-reborn. A young Phoenix is recognizable to its silvery feathers that scholars interpret as a sign that the Phoenix channels some of its Primordial powers from Asha herself. However, as it grows older and more powerful, the sacred bird loses its silver feathers and grows a golden and blazing plumage."

Mind you the scholars think it is connected to Asha because of the silvery feathers. But apparently the upgrade makes the Phoenix 'golden and blazing' which contradicts the scholar's previous interpretation.

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 20, 2014 01:14 AM

Royin said:

I'm sure they have a creative writer on the team who can fit it in the lore if that is your biggest concern.


Oh really? Cuz they had the perfect chance to do just that and totally blew it. The timing was there and we got absolutely 0 on how it's linked to the faction.

Face it, no matter how you look at it, Phoenix does NOT fit Sylvan.

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