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| Thread: Heroes 7 speculation and ideas |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 · NEXT» |
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted April 11, 2015 02:43 AM |
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HEROES 7 SPECULATIONS AND IDEAS
While we're still waiting for more and more information, I thought it would be interesting to create a thread in which we try to come up with our vision on how the end result will go. Make guesses - which heroes will make a return, what kind of stories will be told in campaigns by the councillors, and who will we play as in them, that kind of thing. 
Obviously, gameplay-related ideas are also welcome, but since there are already at least two threads in which this subject is discussed, try not to make this into a gameplay analysis thread, okay?
IDEAS SO FAR:
 FORTRESS EXPANSION (by Sligneris; this post)
 Story: troubles within Grimheim; Cyrus allying with humans and dwarves in order to slay Sandro;
Campaigns: Fortress, Necropolis, Haven, Sylvan, Academy
Characters: Cyrus, Sandro, Oleg, Godric, Markal, Anwen
Visuals: remake of Necropolis townscreen; Lamasu is remade or replaced with another unit; Haven moves away from the Wolf Duchy and brings back blue-white-gold theme
[Characters and campaigns in bold are the core of the concept, others are optional.]
[In this instance, campaigns should stay in this order.]
INFERNO EXPANSION (by Sligneris; brought up in this post and expanded upon, having its theme explored afterwards)
Story: War of the Fifth Eclipse; Alexei's death; Cyrus's character changed since Fortress expansion and he's no longer a protagonist; Isabel is marked by a Demon hero as a mother to the Demon Messiah.
Campaigns: Haven, Sylvan, Inferno
Characters: Cyrus, Alexei, Biara, Anwen
[Even if not playable, Academy remains involved in the story.]
SANCTUARY EXPANSION (by Sligneris; brought up and expanded upon)
Story: elves attempting to stabilize their nation after Queen Isabel's War; elven-naga alliance; conclusion of a several year long civil war in the Lotus Empire
Campaigns: Sylvan, Dungeon, Sanctuary
[Academy, Haven and Fortress should not play any important role in this expansion - they are too involved in the events of Heroes V add-ons.]
FORTRESS-INFERNO EXPANSION (by Articun; link)
Story: a war of the Lunar Eclipse
Campaigns: Dungeon, Fortress, Sylvan, Inferno
HEROES
Cyrus – the genius mage (Academy protagonist of Fortress expansion) (by Sligneris; this post)
Godric – the knight of the Empire (Haven protagonist of Fortress expansion, in charge of Emperor Oleg's forces) (by Sligneris; this post)
Biara – the daughter of Chaos (hero - either main or assisting - of Inferno campaign) (various; this post, and two others)
Anwen – the guardian of the forest (potential Sylvan protagonist of Fortress/Inferno expansion) (by Sligneris; this post)
Ylaya - the priestess of darkness (by Sligneris; link)
Gem - the eternal sorceress (by Sligneris and Kiryu; discussed, for two pages)
Mutare - the renegade Dragon Knight (by Sligneris, Kiryu and Articun; discussed, twice)
FACTIONS
Sanctuary - nagas from different societies (by Dave Jame; link)
CREATURES
Golden Dragons – the children of Elrath (by Sligneris; link)
My personal guesses... Hmn.
I have several reasons to believe that Necropolis campaign will place focus on the War of the Broken Staff - it's confirmed that it will take place before that war ended, as the Spider Cult is still present in the faction's ideology.
That being said, I'm really hopeful that Necro characterisation will be vastly improved - they were always ruthless and had little compassion, as demonstrated by Vein, but they didn't exactly have a reason to strive for any specific evil goals - they were just cultists/researchers of the Seven Cities. Now however, after their banishment many Necromancers will be dead-set on having their vengeance against the Wizards, which is always a plus.
I also kinda hope that Luna reappears again, with an improved portrait - while I think that a concept of a vampiric elf was nice, I really didn't like her artwork in Heroes VI, so I simply want to see another take on it.
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Another of my ideas would be having a Fortress expansion, which would skip through the timeline to around 80 years later. Ideally, in this expansion we would have Cyrus gather allies from Grimheim, the Griffin Empire and possibly Irollan in order to thwart Sandro's plans and ultimately destroy him. Cyrus would obviously have more of his CoH arrogant-but-skilled, a tad heroic persona. Well, I agree that it's kinda stealing the spotlight of the Fortress guys, so it would be fair to start with Fortress and then build everything up for the final, Academy campaign. So at least three campaigns - Fortress, Haven, Academy. Should Irollan be involved, there could also be Sylvan between Fortress and Academy.
Well... I admit I'm mostly short on the Dwarves in my ideas, as I can't exactly come up with the Fortress hero. I certainly can say that I would want to see Godric as the Haven hero - a paragon knight, still in his prime. It'd actually be a nice touch to use that opportunity to give Godric a reason for his apprehension to mages - for example, let Cyrus be forced to make a ruthless decision, a sacrifice that is regardless necessary for the Alliance to progress - you can't exactly slay Sandro while going strictly with a 'clean war'. Also, if there are Elves involved give us Anwen as the Sylvan hero so that I can continue to ship her with Godric =D Ahem...
[EDIT: Obviously, Godric would also be in charge of Griffin Empire soldiers that besieged Lorekeep - which would give Markal an even stronger reason for his grudge against him.]
It would be nice to see Markal in this add-on's ending - making an oath to have his vengeance against those who destroyed his master, rolling the plot up to Heroes V and making a callback to Raelag's appearance in Heroes VI ending at the same time.
Actually, just like Sylvan, Necropolis could also be a faction for this storyline - we would play either as Sandro himself, or as Markal, an apprentice under his tutelage. We can't give just any death to Sandro after all, so putting more spotlight on the villains by giving them a campaign would also work well.
At best five campaigns... Man, this is like another game altogether...
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Next expansion, with Inferno faction should fast-forward to the Fifth Eclipse in 951 YSD, a decade or two after Sandro's death. It was this war in which Alexei, Alaron and Cyrus fought and in which Alexei died.
Cyrus's character would vastly change, as Nadia would have already died by that time. Bitter and cold, aging leader of mages... it would be nice to see that change of heart play out between these two expansions. We could even confront him as a temporary antagonist this time! He can't die, obviously, but there's nothing preventing him from being involved.
But also, obligatory Inferno campaign! My first thoughts were Agrael and Biara, but frankly, playing whole campaign as them could be pretty boring. So they should either be careful to execute this one well, or it could actually be better to tell us a new story. Just... don't give us another Kiril. Or anything Kiril. I hate the guy. Still, Having Agrael and Biara appear, even if not as main characters would still be cool.
[EDIT: During Inferno campaign, we could play as a Demon, who in his loyal service to Demon Sovereign marked Isabel as a mother to the Demon Messiah, which was one of the important, but hidden events of that war. As for the personality of such a protagonist, he could be what Kha-Beleth once was - an idealist who truly believes that his people should be freed.] [EDIT 2: He would invade Greyhound Duchy and then lay a siege at its capital, Whitecliff - using this as distraction, he would sneak inside and perform the demonic ritual on Isabel. Biara could also reappear, assisting the protagonist in his mission, as she seemed to be knowledgeable about the whole Demon Messiah plan.]
Four campaigns this time, if we want to make all sides of this war playable in the story - Haven, Sylvan, Inferno and Academy, in whichever order. I feel like I'm putting too much focus on Haven and Academy, unfortunately... still, they are one of the most relevant faction there, soo... [EDIT: Either way, while Academy and Sylvan should be somewhat involved with the plot, it could be best not to give them it a campaign - kinda like Inferno didn't get one in H5 expansions.] [EDIT 2: If there's a Sylvan campaign it could be a nice touch to have a Sylvan protagonist confront Cyrus and point out how his personality is no longer is that of a hero who once saved the world. Anwen could fit into that role, possibly?]
Actually, now that I think about it, these two add-ons would together have more campaigns than the main game.  Now that's what I call an extension to the story.
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I... overdid it, didn't I?  You probably forgot the first section of this post by now, which explained this thread's purpose, so scroll up and read it again if you need to and post your own ideas. 
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted April 11, 2015 04:17 AM |
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No Agrael, just Biara. She was so snubbed by not getting a campaign on H5. She was more of a main character than snowing Isabel. Gimme that Fall of Shadya/Rise of Biara dlc at least.
Haven and Dungeon campaigns are surely after their H6 counterparts given the Justicar and Stalker descriptions. I agree with you regarding necro. Afaik the stronghold, academy and sylvan ones could be anywhere in the timeline.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted April 11, 2015 08:05 AM |
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What you write is exactly what I don't want when it comes to the story part.
No linikng to H5, no focusing on old characters, No exploring already know parts of the lore.
A game should expande it's world, not dwell in the known parts.
H5 story was bad, not bad in a funny way, just bad. Bad like a weak old carton of milk left on a sunny bench.
H6 was a cluster**** of badly executed ideas and and poorly writen characters but atleast it didn't make me want to drill my ears with every line of dialogue the "characters" spoke.
H5 didn't have an idea, it didn't have a story to begin with, the characters from the vanila game were all, every single one of them, created so, that they made me hate them from the moment I got my hands on them.
No Biara, No Cyrus, and pleas god help NO REALAG! Don't tell me you can't come up with an more interesting dungeon hero. I can.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted April 11, 2015 09:58 AM |
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Dave_Jame said:
H5 story was bad, not bad in a funny way, just bad. Bad like a weak old carton of milk left on a sunny bench.
the hell you on about? h5 was hillarious 
anyway, i believe the stronghold campaign will be about orc/beastmen liberation (again)? something else would be nice, like focusing on some heinous and outright evil stronghold warlord or whatever.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Alex_Yakub
Famous Hero
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posted April 11, 2015 10:51 AM |
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Here are my predicitions about campaigns:
Academy campaign will be about necromancer uprising.
Necropolis campaign will be about War of the Broken Staff, just like Sligneris said.
Stronghold campaign we pretty much already know, it will be about orc and beastman rebellion.
Haven campaign I'm not really sure about, although I'm pretty sure it will be somehow connected to the Wolf duchy, what with all this new Haven style.
Either Sylvan or Dungeon campaign will be about War of the Bitter Ashes, though it would be fun if they both were about it, and we would get a viewpoints of both sides.
I'd really love if we could get both Fortress and Inferno in one expansion, even though I know it is almost impossible  this two factions both were considered as viable options for 5th and 6th faction respectively, and I'm sure there are at least a few complete concepts of their units ready. Also, their factions both have fire as their symbol. Fortress campaign may be about dwarfs fighting either dark elves or demons. And I'd really love if Inferno campaign was about Kha-Beleth coming to power.
And if there was a hypothetical Sanctuary expansion, wich I'd really love, their campaign could be about nagas of Shanriya or something 
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted April 11, 2015 12:54 PM |
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GenyaArikado said:
Gimme that Fall of Shadya/Rise of Biara dlc at least.
I believe Biara to be older that this, so it wouldn't fit here... That is, unless we again have Biara tell a story from the past to someone, but that'd be a bit awkward. A scenario from the past, without a narrator would be more fitting, kinda the way most Heroes V scenarios were. It's my headcanon that Biara became a succubus prior to the Third Eclipse and was one of the most prominent assassins when it comes to finding Hidden Houses and slaughtering Dragon Knights within. It could after this that Kha-Beleth noticed her exploits and raised her to a quite high rank.
Dave_Jame said:
What you write is exactly what I don't want when it comes to the story part.
No linikng to H5, no focusing on old characters, No exploring already know parts of the lore.
A game should expande it's world, not dwell in the known parts.
No Biara, No Cyrus, and pleas god help NO REALAG! Don't tell me you can't come up with an more interesting dungeon hero. I can.
Did you play Clash of Heroes? It had plenty of decently-portrayed old characters like Godric, Cyrus, Findan or Markal. It gives us some perspective on Markal's personality - and that in the past, his acting wasn't as terrible.
We can argue all about whether Heroes V had any "idea" or not, but I'm not sure if we want to waste our time on that. I believe that it was a good story, but terribly written and I stand by that opinion.
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It's exactly focusing on the important historical events in the timeline that I want - Heroes VI would be so much better if we had two campaigns playing as Tuidhana, one as an Elf, one as a Dark Elf. Holy Empire's invasion on her lands could be used for Haven campaign and have a Knight loyal to Liam Falcon wonder about his loyalty.
We have a story in the past regardless, so why not focus of the most important parts of said past? I'd much rather have a game focus on destroying Sandro, rather than going from game to game and then - puff - Sandro's dead and we know nothing of it.
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Out of curiosity, what other Dungeon hero can you come up with?
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted April 11, 2015 01:13 PM |
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Sligneris said:
Dave_Jame said:
What you write is exactly what I don't want when it comes to the story part.
No linikng to H5, no focusing on old characters, No exploring already know parts of the lore.
A game should expande it's world, not dwell in the known parts.
No Biara, No Cyrus, and pleas god help NO REALAG! Don't tell me you can't come up with an more interesting dungeon hero. I can.
Did you play Clash of Heroes? It had plenty of decently-portrayed old characters like Godric, Cyrus, Findan or Markal. It gives us some perspective on Markal's personality - and that in the past, his acting wasn't as terrible.
We can argue all about whether Heroes V had any "idea" or not, but I'm not sure if we want to waste our time on that. I believe that it was a good story, but terribly written and I stand by that opinion.
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It's exactly focusing on the important historical events in the timeline that I want - Heroes VI would be so much better if we had two campaigns playing as Tuidhana, one as an Elf, one as a Dark Elf. Holy Empire's invasion on her lands could be used for Haven campaign and have a Knight loyal to Liam Falcon wonder about his loyalty.
We have a story in the past regardless, so why not focus of the most important parts of said past? I'd much rather have a game focus on destroying Sandro, rather than going from game to game and then - puff - Sandro's dead and we know nothing of it.
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Out of curiosity, what Dungeon hero can you come up with?
Add 1:
Yes I did, several times and NO they were not portrayed well. Most of them were sidekicks with 0 to no importance and not more thana few one-liners. The only one getting a back story there was Godric.
Add 2:
Well even if I am one of the people here who fallow the story rather closely I think it is more interesting to explore new things. What is more interesting for you? Getting to know the events you already know the result of, or finding a new story you did not know about yet?
I see the current Setting as flawed and the cure for this is not dwelling on the bad past (already known stories) but overshadowing them with good ones. If you focus a story on H5 you will bring up the dmg done by that game.
Add 3:
If I would take the existing characters, Eruin would be the best from the DE royal Bloodline
If I could be very broad, I would say a Minotaur hero of any kind.
If I would have to focus on the DE as a race and “be original”: A protagonist being a survivor of the wars under the mountain surviving a dwarven ambush, forced to venture deep into the heart of the world, dealing with those that dwell in the dark and getting to know the true meaning of darkness. Once he returns onto the face of the world he finds himself in the Irollan forest and makes it his personal quest to make his former brethren pay for what they have done to his kin. As The armies of Irollan threaten to put an end to him he is more and more blinded by the madness in his head until thanks to a gruesome event he realizes what for monster he became and runs away back into the deeps to be isolated with his madness leaving his armies behind to be slaughtered by the incoming elven forces.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted April 11, 2015 01:16 PM |
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Sligneris said:
Out of curiosity, what other Dungeon hero can you come up with?
A minotaur hero fighting to overtake the dungeon empire/whatever it's called. manages to carve out a small bit where Minotaurs reign on their own without DE influence.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted April 11, 2015 01:20 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
Sligneris said:
Out of curiosity, what other Dungeon hero can you come up with?
A minotaur hero fighting to overtake the dungeon empire/whatever it's called. manages to carve out a small bit where Minotaurs reign on their own without DE influence.
With Marzhin putting his weight behind Darkstorm.....
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted April 11, 2015 01:22 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
A minotaur hero fighting to overtake the dungeon empire/whatever it's called. manages to carve out a small bit where Minotaurs reign on their own without DE influence.
I'm exactly a fan of minotaur-focused Dungeon, but story-wise, it sound interesting. That being said, it couldn't work with Dark Elves in the lineup and I doubt that making a different faction out of that will be worthwhile. Especially since I'm not sure what should we expect the lineup to be? Minotaur times 6, like Heroes V's Dwarves?
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I'll copy my Necropolis idea so that doesn't get buried in that old post.
Expansions could greatly change Necropolis's visuals, as most of expansion plot would play after Spider Cult's fall. New Necropolis design would come with a Fortress expansion and give Necropolis less ordered, more sinister look, without the Spider symbolism - something fitting for expansion in which you confront Sandro and quite possibly play as him, or his apprentice.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted April 11, 2015 01:43 PM |
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Sligneris said:
I'll copy my Necropolis idea so that doesn't get buried in that old post.
Expansions could greatly change Necropolis's visuals, as most of expansion plot would play after Spider Cult's fall. New Necropolis design would come with a Fortress expansion and give Necropolis less ordered, more sinister look, without the Spider symbolism - something fitting for expansion in which you confront Sandro and quite possibly play as him, or his apprentice.
May I be a bit negative? Why would you want a re-skin.. when it would take almost the same effort to create a new faction?
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted April 11, 2015 01:49 PM |
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Edited by kiryu133 at 13:50, 11 Apr 2015.
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Sligneris said:
I'm exactly a fan of minotaur-focused Dungeon, but story-wise, it sound interesting. That being said, it couldn't work with Dark Elves in the lineup and I doubt that making a different faction out of that will be worthwhile. Especially since I'm not sure what should we expect the lineup to be? Minotaur times 6, like Heroes V's Dwarves?
well, combining it with your aide of alternate (but similar) lineups you could pretty much make the same one but replacing the DE's with it shouldn't be too hard. replace the DE's with evil eye and the other with something else. Wouldn't be too hard since there are only 2 core DE's in the lineup. Splinter-faction of minotaurs is a pretty good idea to shut people like me up
i guess an alternate champion would be nice (and maybe replace strider with manticore) like a minotaur chairot. that would be epic.
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted April 11, 2015 01:55 PM |
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Dave_Jame said:
Sligneris said:
I'll copy my Necropolis idea so that doesn't get buried in that old post.
Expansions could greatly change Necropolis's visuals, as most of expansion plot would play after Spider Cult's fall. New Necropolis design would come with a Fortress expansion and give Necropolis less ordered, more sinister look, without the Spider symbolism - something fitting for expansion in which you confront Sandro and quite possibly play as him, or his apprentice.
May I be a bit negative? Why would you want a re-skin.. when it would take almost the same effort to create a new faction?
There would be both a Fortress faction and a re-skin of Necropolis. Scrapping the Spider Cult seems to be a popular demand, so why not?
That being said... I also feel it'll be a bit weird to play all of these events with a Wolf Duchy...  That's my concern even about Heroes VII to be honest.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted April 11, 2015 02:22 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
well, combining it with your aide of alternate (but similar) lineups you could pretty much make the same one but replacing the DE's with it shouldn't be too hard. replace the DE's with evil eye and the other with something else. Wouldn't be too hard since there are only 2 core DE's in the lineup. Splinter-faction of minotaurs is a pretty good idea to shut people like me up :grin
Seems like the perfect excuse to expand the tiers to a 5|4/5|2
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
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posted April 11, 2015 03:19 PM |
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I could share here what I would do in hypothetical add-ons, but as there is always a chance that things will go my way, I think it's safer if I don't say too much
One thing I'd like, though, would be to close as many as the dangling plot threads as possible in Heroes VII, so that when we get to Heroes VIII or Might & Magic XI or whatever the future holds, we can have a "fresh start" in the post-Dark Messiah era, with new plots, new characters, maybe even new factions and continents.
Fingers crossed 
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted April 11, 2015 03:29 PM |
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@Marzhin: You got my support there.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted April 11, 2015 03:39 PM |
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You and me both!
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted April 11, 2015 03:50 PM |
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Marzhin said:
I could share here what I would do in hypothetical add-ons, but as there is always a chance that things will go my way, I think it's safer if I don't say too much
One thing I'd like, though, would be to close as many as the dangling plot threads as possible in Heroes VII, so that when we get to Heroes VIII or Might & Magic XI or whatever the future holds, we can have a "fresh start" in the post-Dark Messiah era, with new plots, new characters, maybe even new factions and continents.
Fingers crossed
Indeed, that's the idea behind what I wrote here - with most important past events resolved in Heroes VII and its expansions, it would be possible to move head-on towards the future in Heroes VIII.
I'm really hopeful in this regard.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 11, 2015 04:18 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 21:11, 11 Apr 2015.
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You people really believe that moving beyond Dark Messiah is enough of a change to set things straight? I don't think so. Sure, some rules of the universe might get shaken, but the overall Ashan atmosphere will stay. Instead of a good nail-biter plot where you can feel danger and the weight of what's at stake, where you can have a clear view of the bigger picture and where you can empathize with strong characters, you'll probably get another childish story where there's nothing of substance, no sentiment involved, no drama, no feel of impending doom, nothing. Just a feel good atmosphere where nothing can go wrong, like the biography of a comic relief character.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted April 11, 2015 04:22 PM |
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Please, it's as if Ashan's existence itself is related to any of that and the old universe is The Messiah. I actually think that Ashan has a bit better atmosphere than earlier settings and things you describe are subjective at best.
We're here to discuss ideas, so don't turn this into another "we hate Ashan" thread, please.
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