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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: So what could somehow redeem H7?
Thread: So what could somehow redeem H7? This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT»
Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted March 21, 2016 07:12 AM

Where is the "dispose of Erwan and his cronies" point? You're trying to cure a cancer without removing the mutated tissue that kills the whole organism, how's that expected to work? Everything can be fixed on technical and conceptual level - at least to a good extent - but not when you have the wrong man in charge. No amount of good work can save e product from excessive management stupidity.

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Lord_Immortal
Lord_Immortal


Famous Hero
posted April 05, 2016 05:24 PM

What could redeem Heroes VII?

It is wrong to think that Heroes VII cannot be redeemed. It can. But will it be redeemed by the developers? That I know not.

. To be quite honest, I would classify it as a game that I like, not a top choice, but still something I like. Heroes VII has a lot of potential which needs, however, to be used in the best way possible.

However, Heroes VII's road to redemption is a very long one.

Let me start by the most obvious, the Heroes VI borrowed models. Let me state this clearly: THERE SHOULD BE NOT A SINGLE UNIT IN HEROES VII TO BE IDENTICAL TO HEROES VI.

Second, the Factions. We need, first of all, the Four Missing Factions from Ashan's Lore: Inferno, Fortress, Sanctuary and Ylath's faction (which we will agree to call Ylath in this post). This will not only provide a Lorewise-Complete game but would also enhance other aspects of the game.

Before announcing my idea about the Missing Four I would like to state that, we need changes in the existing factions. First of all, let me state that I would like in some factions to introduce inter-changeable Core or Elite units (One or two interchangeable units for each faction). Inter-changeable means that can be chosen only one among those units but not both.

1 Interchangeable (1 core):
NECROPOLIS: Zombies interchange with Spiders.

ACADEMY: Gremlins interchange with Kabirs.

STRONGHOLD: Gnolls interchange with Goblins(Javelin throwers).Also, basilisks become just basilisks, without Riders and more similiar to Heroes III ones.

HAVEN: Haven undergoes many changes (due to the YLATH faction). First, Paladin->Sun Rider is a CHAMPION UNIT now similiar to Heroes V & VI ones. Glories make a return as Elite units and Wolves are inter-changeable with Griffins. Angels need a redesign. So the new haven lineup is:
CORE: Crossbowmen, Legionnaire and Wolves/Griffins
ELITE: Glories, Abbots and Guardians
CHAMPION: Paladins/Sun Riders OR Angels/Archangels.

2 Interchangeable units (1 core & 1 elite):

SYLVAN: In Sylvan, Dryads interchange with Pixies.

Blade Dancers should be degraded to Core and Emerald Knights be set instead of them as Elite. Deers interchange with Unicorns.

DUNGEON: Dungeon is the faction that probably needs the most Overhaul. Let me state this clearly. Striders should be completely removed while the Medusi should be completely remodeled into a more fit-for-elite looking troop (and since we are going to have Sanctuary we are going to have Coral Priestessess too so they should be different. Let me publish (for Dungeon) my verison of the troop tree.
CORE: 1)Assassins 2)Troglodytes 3)Stalkers OR Lurkers
ELITE: 1)Minotaurs 2)Faceless OR Manticore 3) Medusa
CHAMPION: Same


As you may see, I have tried to make the interchangeable troops have some similiarities (such as keeping them ranged or flyers or in the Case of Griffins&Guardians keeping them both as Offensive units) so that factions won't suffer from the lack of flyers/ranged etc despite different choices. Alternative units differ in their strategic use. They offer a diversity between Offensive/Defensive or Magical/Nonmagical etc.

This being said, I would like to announche my ideas for the Missing Four. For the moment, I will include only the Lineups and will explain more in future posts.

INFERNO(1 interchangeable in Elite):
CORE: 1) Maniacs->Demented ; 2) Succubus->Lilim
3) Hellhound(1 head) -> Orthrus (2 heads) -> Cerberus (3 heads) [a special thing I thought for Inferno is to have 3 upgrades for this unit].

ELITE: 1)Juggernauts OR Tormentors ; 2)Hell Steeds->Nightmares ; 3) Efreeti

CHAMPION: Pit Fiends OR Arch Devils.


FORTRESS(1 interchangeable in Core):
CORE:
1)Defender->Protector
2)Javelin Thrower ->Harpooner OR Axe-Thrower-> Axe Master
3)Bear -> Mountain Bear(no riders)

ELITE:
1)Rune Priest -> Rune Master
2)Berserker->Ulfheadnar
3)Fire Giant -> Son of Arkath
CHAMPION:
Fire Wyrm->Lava Wyrm OR Valkyrie->Divine Valkyrie


SANCTUARY (2 Interchangeables to not restrict it to Asian theme but offer more classical sea-associated creatures
such as the Sea Elves(pirates), Tritons, Mermaids and Sea Serpents)
CORE:
1)Shark-Man->Shark Warrior OR Sea Elf->Sea Elf Captain
2)Kappa -> Kappa Shoya
3)Reef Priestess -> Coral Witch
ELITE:
1)Triton -> Merling (Like M&M8 tritons)
2)Ashigaru->Samurai (Male naga with swords similiar to Kenshi/Kensei)
3)Mermaid->Siren OR Snow Maiden ->Yuki-Onna
CHAMPION:
Kirin->Sacred Kirin OR Sea Serpent->Sea Monster

YLATH (Humans mostly)
CORE:
1)Militia -> Militia Captain (Like M&M:X ones) OR Thief(M&M7) -> Rogue (Like Heroes III one)
2)Brigand -> Raider (Like M&M:X Ones)
3)Rogue Mage -> Freemage (Again M&M:X)
ELITE:
1)Cavalier->Cuirassier (Redesigned)
2)Rukh -> King Rukh (Rukh is an alternative name for a Roc)
3)Whirlwind -> Cyclone(a powerful elemental like-creature similiar to Heroes 5 Air Elementals or M&M 6 Air Elementals)
CHAMPION:
Landsknecht->Swordmaster (Redesigned) OR Thunderbird -> Mighty Thunderbird

To be continued...

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted April 05, 2016 06:23 PM

No, the problem is as long as the previous games have some better core features than this one, changing/adding assets won't cut it. What I think is h7 could be improved the way you are suggesting IF its gameplay was solid (=superior to h3 and tote) to start with, which is not.

Zenofex is right, the people directly responsible should be doing something else than working on a game they can't and don't want to understand, maybe that they don't even like.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 05, 2016 06:49 PM

I don't think it works that way. I doubt the team applied for specifically making Heroes 7, is rather Ubisoft who hired them because probably they were successful before. Then when you need to work to survive, you take offers then that's it, you do your best.

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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 05, 2016 06:54 PM

sal's right. sadly, that's the way the industry works. you never get to choose what you're working on. unless, i guess, you know someone connected with what you want to work on, and they have the power to put you in the position. i doubt that happens often, though.

the errors, i think, mostly come from the directors of the project. they tell the workers what they want, and they are the ones that ultimately give the green light to content made by artists and whatnot.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted April 05, 2016 07:00 PM

No, Ubi hired Limbic because they worked on H6's expansion and made MMX, other than that they make browser games and are not familiar with the series in general. But they also listen to a lead, who only aims for profit and pushing his fan fiction for fame, Erehwon del Bretonia.

Ubi probably doesn't know (and don't give) crap about Heroes and delegate the task to incompetents.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 05, 2016 07:03 PM

Well, your last comment nailed it. Is not Erwan to blame, he only accepted an job offer, who wouldn't.

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted April 05, 2016 07:11 PM

Salamandre said:
Well, your last comment nailed it. Is not Erwan to blame, he only accepted an job offer, who wouldn't.


well I mean I am the junior QA manager in telecommunications company, I would accept the job as senior QA manager no problem,
if someone was retarded to offer me the job to become head of the legal department I would probably say no because I am unqualified, will look like a fool and will drive the company into the ground lol
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 05, 2016 07:16 PM

Did they? Also I see Heroes 7 is quite maps prolific in mapsforheroes, 28 maps already posted, while there are only 60 for H6 in all. (768 for H5, thats nice)

So, while you guys eat each other here, people make maps then those playing say is good, no bugs. I guess this means Erwan will be up for H8 too then. Not that I care, I found all their respective games beyond mediocrity, H6-7 then MM X but I also understand what means a job and you don't refuse jobs.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted April 05, 2016 07:18 PM

No one is saying people should refuse jobs, but I find it easy to say Erwin is not to blame when he's been working on the brand for the last ten years and still doesn't know **** about the games. Developers not studying previous games success is also not free of charge, IMO.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 05, 2016 07:22 PM

I did mean you can blame him for individual incompetence, which is criticism, but we can't tell he should refuse the offer, this is nonsense, sorry.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted April 05, 2016 07:24 PM

But who said that? He should get fired is what I meant. H6 was hated, MMX failed, and H7 is not exactly a success either. Bad for the IP, bad for the fans, bad for the company, everyone is loosing.
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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted April 05, 2016 07:25 PM

Salamandre said:
So, while you guys eat each other here, people make maps then those playing say is good, no bugs. I guess this means Erwan will be up for H8 too then.


sorry Sal man I really respect you but I'm not even going to dignify that with a response lol
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 05, 2016 07:30 PM

Well, H7 doesn't even start on my computer, so H8 would be like going to moon. For me, everything after H5 are only concepts, all they do is keeping the forum alive and kicking, so I want Erwan for H8, that will make many fun readings, like now.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted April 05, 2016 07:37 PM

Lol, well, ever since the game is out there is more activity in the h3 and h5 parts of the forum and at some point people will stop bother at all, so no more fun readings for you. If you want the forums really kicking back, we need a new Heroes game, one that is worth it. Then people will start discussing strategies again, create mods and so on, but I doubt interest is that big if things stay the way they are.
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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 05, 2016 07:43 PM
Edited by fred79 at 19:45, 05 Apr 2016.

Galaad said:
No, Ubi hired Limbic because they worked on H6's expansion and made MMX, other than that they make browser games and are not familiar with the series in general. But they also listen to a lead, who only aims for profit and pushing his fan fiction for fame, Erehwon del Bretonia.

Ubi probably doesn't know (and don't give) crap about Heroes and delegate the task to incompetents.


you would probably know more about it, since i don't pay any attention to ubisoft heroes games. that's distressing, that something that was a failure, is seen as profitable to a company(so much so, that they rehire the people who were partially responsible FOR that failure(s)). i wonder why? oh yeah, people buy the junk.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted April 05, 2016 07:49 PM
Edited by Galaad at 19:51, 05 Apr 2016.

fred79 said:
i wonder why? oh yeah, people buy the junk.

Yeah...
We did try to warn them though (hit "best").

But look, how did I buy H6? I was barely following the forums, and as a fan of Heroes I saw the new title in the shop, I just bought it. That is probably the case of most players.
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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 05, 2016 07:54 PM

yeah, i know. it takes time to be a savvy consumer. i blew so much dough needlessly in the past, because i either didn't do any research beforehand, or wasn't able to; because research for that product didn't exist at the time.

it's only now that i can't afford anything(or when my cash was dwindling), that i scrutinize every little detail before i purchase anything. being poor can teach lessons, for sure.

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 05, 2016 08:13 PM bonus applied by Brukernavn on 05 Apr 2016.
Edited by Stevie at 18:51, 10 Apr 2016.

Lord_Immortal said:
What could redeem Heroes VII?

It is wrong to think that Heroes VII cannot be redeemed. It can. But will it be redeemed by the developers? That I know not.

. To be quite honest, I would classify it as a game that I like, not a top choice, but still something I like. Heroes VII has a lot of potential which needs, however, to be used in the best way possible.


You know, I'm human so I must admit, whenever I read posts like this they kinda tend to get to me, because I seriously cannot understand the foolishness behind some people's hopes and dreams. And one thing more I don't understand is how in spite of everything we've seen so far surrounding the Heroes 7 drama, from production to product, people can still muster the boldness to make claims of recovery. I don't think you know too much about me but I tried my HARDEST to like the game and I couldn't. Before long there wasn't even a point to it anymore, because it was increasingly apparent that nothing significant would change.

If I were to explain it to you in a quick analogy, to me Heroes 7 is akin to the latest junk food on the menu you could order at your nearest Ubisoft's. When they decided to make the meal, they wanted to appeal to the greater public of both old and new customers and that resulted in bunch of incoherent goals jumbled together which they advertised as "the best of fast food ever". For the ingredients they reused the expired contents of Heroes 6, some little and unsubstantial "new" bits here and there, and as a bonus a hefty dose of developer salt, et voila! - the culmination of over 10 years of franchising. The philosophy and code made for a shoddy frame so that when you took it to your mouth a lot of content would break away. The smell of cheapness filling your nostrils told you the whole story before you even took a bite, only that a 60 pre-order wasn't exactly cheap (100 if you wanted your favorite pokemon too which some didn't even get), so you felt compelled to eat it, you HAD to get it down your throat because you paid for it. You took a bite with caution not knowing what to expect anymore, chewing the hard and unsavory parts with disgust, desperately hoping for at least SOMETHING good, searching for that flavor with the tip of your tongue, but then it hit the stomach and none was had! You looked around you and saw some people doing the same as you, the smarter ones asked for their money back, some oddballs actually enjoying it (or so they claimed), and some outside starting a commotion and asking for the creative junk director to be fired. But then this employee comes at your table to tell you how you haven't eaten it all yet and that there were some good bits in there, promising to bring over even more good stuff in the future. But even after all that, unsatisfied and with no hope left, you arrive at the obvious conclusion that the thing in front of you is and will always be a pile of junk.

Now you're the one who comes to me to preach about redemption, and I'm asking you simply, what are the signs? What are the fruits of their laborious efforts up until now? You realize that the game is 7 major patches in and there's still nothing significant to show for it? Now they're running their mouths again about how the skillwheel changes are gonna be the salvation of the game, but if we're to believe that how many salvations up until now does that make? Not to mention that there are people more in the know than you and me who already gave up hope even for that, prominent one being Natalka who after just a few weeks as a VIP called it a lost cause. Some other people simply turned away from it, JJ plays AoW3, Elvin returned to Heroes 5's duel map, and I find myself right there as well, because why would I want to eat bad junk food rather than enjoy some other more delectable dishes?

You seem to live under the impression that Heroes 7 is an uncut and unpolished diamond, but think again if you've seen any shining edges to validate it as a diamond to begin with, because my guess is that what you're holding in such high regards is an overpriced clump of coal ready to be cast away into the fire.
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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted April 05, 2016 08:36 PM

i m thinking a ritual that involves feathers, a human sacrifice, incantations and possibly some robes for the mess, could redeem heroes 7. them that elvin and lets see how they react.
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