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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Leadership & Luck (HOMM3)
Thread: Leadership & Luck (HOMM3) This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT»
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 08, 2016 09:15 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 21:19, 08 Jun 2016.

Leadership & Luck (HOMM3)

What do you think about those skills?
While not the worst I often find those skills pretty mediocre.
I mean it's nice when positive morale or luck happens, but that is pretty rare since +3 is max.
Luck is actually a bit more usefull in HotA with negative morale introduced and Arch Devils giving -2 luck, still Luck is a skill I will rarely choose, unless the alternative is worse.

Now if we talk about Leadership and knights it seems they have way too much morale for their own good. If all troops are from Castle they will have +1, with Expert leadership add +3, with angels add +1 and if defending a Castle town with Brotherhood of the Sword +2. That is +7 morale, while +3 is max, kinda wasted morale there, but at least they are guaranteed max morale unless enemy wears Spirit of Oppresion or the bad morale artifacts from HotA.

The same can be said about Rampart and 2 of their heroes:
Normally you have 0 luck, but with the Luck skill that Ufretin and Melodia starts with add +3 at Expert, +2 if defending a Rampart with Fountain of Fortune, now if you have Melodia, you specialise in Fortune whichs add +3, that adds up to +8 Luck if Melodia.

If grail is build in Castle or Rampart morale or luck is boosted even more.

I guess my biggest gripe is Melodia, why would she ever cast Fortune, when she already has Luck? Her special is stupid and does'nt even affect the dragons anyway. Druids also have the biggest chance of learning Luck which is kinda wasted when defending Rampart.
But knights defending a Castle also have an excess of morale and thereby waste it.  

What do you think? Could/should knights and druids be redesigned? Or maybe just Melodia? Or do you think everything is fine?      

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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted June 08, 2016 09:56 PM

phoenix4ever said:
What do you think about those skills?

Morale as it is now is more powerful than luck, both as good for your own units or bad for your enemy. If luck would work in H4 it would be much more valuable than it is now.
The reason for high morale/luck for Castle/Rampart would probably be the thought of Castle facing Necropolis and Rampart facing Inferno, it's just a guess of mine though and the skills are indeed wasted on the heroes in the long run.
But I swear, the most annoying downside of H3 is neutral stack morale or the fact that all units, regardless of size and level got the same chance to get it.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted June 08, 2016 11:38 PM

Let me put it this way: there is a single major artifact that gives the equivalent to both Expert Leadership and Expert Luck, now magine u had one giving Expert Archery and Expert Offense... I think it says all about the utility of the skills.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted June 08, 2016 11:53 PM

Having excess of either means you're pretty much invulnerable to negative effects, unless your enemy has stacked up heavily on those. So, you could consider anything above +3 wasted ... until you face negative modifiers. Situational, but depending on situation, it might be useful.

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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
posted June 09, 2016 12:00 AM

I find leadership a lot better than luck, since I come across a lot of situations where I mix more than 3 factions together. Still, leadership isn't a priority since there are skills way better than it. Speaking about luck, I almost never chose luck, there's also the lack of negative luck in h3 (even though it is added in HotA), as well as negative modifiers. Just add a luck artifact and some map locations into the mix and you're already maxed.
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 09, 2016 12:19 AM

Maybe Leadership and Luck would be better if they wen't from -5 to +5?

I agree Leadership is better than Luck, because you can mix troops.
Only if playing a pure Necropolis or Conflux army, Luck would be better.

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HeymlicH
HeymlicH


Known Hero
posted June 09, 2016 05:51 PM
Edited by HeymlicH at 17:52, 09 Jun 2016.

Leadership is somewhat ok, but not great.

Luck is much worse. The Problem with luck is, how the bonus damage is calculated. You get an additional 100% damage. So, if you already have an attack Bonus of 150%, you get 40% more damage with luck. However, if you have an attack malus, you don't get the additional 100% - in that case luck is capped at double damage.


If luck was still working like it used to in HoMM1/2 it would be much more useful.

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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted June 09, 2016 06:12 PM

True, but imo luck would still be best if it worked like it does in H4.It would make luck more mandatory to have compared to now.

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TheThaumaturge
TheThaumaturge

Tavern Dweller
posted June 10, 2016 07:01 AM

How did Heroes 1/2 luck function that makes it so much better? Because I actually quite like luck in Heroes 3.
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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted June 10, 2016 08:50 AM

TheThaumaturge said:
How did Heroes 1/2 luck function that makes it so much better? Because I actually quite like luck in Heroes 3.

Dude, a freaking rainbow hit your unit, what else needs to be said?

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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted June 10, 2016 08:56 AM

In Heroes 5 both Luck and Morale coudl go all the way from -10 to +10, giving 5% chance for effect each. So you coudl stack as much bonus or debuff as you wanted.
H3 limit is artificial and on paper it has insignificant impact on game (though actual RMG chances seem to be much higher).
____________
The future of Heroes 3 is here!

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zaio-baio
zaio-baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted June 10, 2016 10:51 AM

Warmonger said:
In Heroes 5 both Luck and Morale coudl go all the way from -10 to +10, giving 5% chance for effect each. So you coudl stack as much bonus or debuff as you wanted.
H3 limit is artificial and on paper it has insignificant impact on game (though actual RMG chances seem to be much higher).

In h5 each point of luck/morale gives 10% chance to get luck/morale in battle, capped at 50%. So if you have 3 luck and 4 morale your army will have 30 % chance for 2x dmg and 40% chance to get 2x initiative.
Morale in h5 doenst give extra turn immediately, instead it fills the ATB bar of the unit that got morale by 50%, effectively doubling its initiative for 1 turn( its next turn will come 2x faster).

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted June 10, 2016 12:05 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 12:05, 10 Jun 2016.

Warmonger said:
...(though actual RMG chances seem to be much higher).
And I tought you were the guy who could awser if this is real or biased observation...

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HeymlicH
HeymlicH


Known Hero
posted June 13, 2016 03:07 AM

TheThaumaturge said:
How did Heroes 1/2 luck function that makes it so much better? Because I actually quite like luck in Heroes 3.


It gives you double damage (for real)

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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted June 13, 2016 08:48 AM

HeymlicH said:
TheThaumaturge said:
How did Heroes 1/2 luck function that makes it so much better? Because I actually quite like luck in Heroes 3.


It gives you double damage (for real)

The rainbow, it is all about the rainbow.

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Anil
Anil


Known Hero
posted June 16, 2016 06:08 PM

I think negative luck should be added.
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OldLich
OldLich


Hired Hero
posted June 16, 2016 06:18 PM
Edited by OldLich at 18:19, 16 Jun 2016.

A negative luck just adds equilibrium, it's good to have negative morale and neutral luck. You have to remember that bad morale AFFECTS the player to think that it is bad luck, even if it is just bad morale. I'm afraid it won't get the effect you want. It'll just confuse him.

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Eamon
Eamon

Tavern Dweller
posted June 18, 2016 12:02 AM

I've always thought they were kinda useless, as well as castle and rampart grails (comparatively). There are just so many easier ways to enhance them; artifacts, random objects that often give you extra movement if you visit them anyhow, just seems pointless to waste skill areas on them.

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Anil
Anil


Known Hero
posted June 29, 2016 12:36 AM

Morele is very good factor expecially for high level creatures. So why i think Necropolis is most overrated town in the game? Because they don't gain good morale.


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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted June 29, 2016 04:38 AM

Leadership is good and fits most 8 skill heroes, tough: Log,Off,Wis,Air,Ear,Arm and Arc are better.

Castle has advantage on speed whit AA being the fastest (after Phoenixes) some of your units will get another attack and if you have hasted/slowed you will act first and as "suprice attack" you benefit from leadership the most with the speed advantage. True, your morale could be +1 or even +2 without leadership but as others has pointed out, the enemy factor and mixed troop aligments is the direction you might want to look in to.

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