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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Worst hero class in HOMM3
Thread: Worst hero class in HOMM3 This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT»
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 17, 2016 11:14 PM

Worst hero class in HOMM3

Inspired by Orc's "Best hero class", I ask what is the worst hero class? Alchemist? Wizard? Witch? And what's perhaps more interesting, how could it be improved?
Even though I love Fortress as a faction I think I will say witch is the worst class, they get horribly bad skills, the lowest possible attack, a lot of power and knowledge, but no level 4 or 5 spells. The best way to do some damage as a Witch is pick up water magic and hope for bless to be found soon or picking up meteor shower, chain lightning or implosion somewhere, outside town.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 17, 2016 11:17 PM

Witch is a VERY bad class for fortress, but maybe they are not as bad for other towns if got in tavern (power+knowledge balanced is best combination - Inferno gets too much power but no knowledge, Tower too much knowledge but no power).

They mostly start with Wisdom. However their specialties are also mostly all bad, which cannot save them

I like alchemists in concept, and they have some useful specialties like +1 mercury : P
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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted October 18, 2016 01:32 AM

Any magic heroes really but Witch and Battle Mages shines here. Tough sometimes their value comes as secondary heroes. I buy magic hero to defend town if lv1. There are some hero specialities that give resources. Warlock, Wizard, Heretics and Necromancers can be deasent spell casters. Priest and Druid are somewhat useless even tough some has 'deasent' specialities. These good/neutral aligment magic heroes have hard access to fire what could give more damage spells. Meteor and Implosion are out of reach for some.

I dislike Witch and Priest probably the most.
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HeymlicH
HeymlicH


Known Hero
posted October 22, 2016 12:46 PM

ok, let's exclude magic heros, they all suck.So, the question would be: Which is the worst might hero?

The answer is: Knights and Alchemists.There is no point in discussing, which of these two might be a little worse or better, both classes are bad. Never pick a knight or alchemist as main. Yes, that includes Orrin and Neela. All other might classes have some heros that can serve as main.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 22, 2016 01:02 PM

Knights are good class -Valeska and Orrin score high in online tournaments, then both Orin and Neela are excellent heroes. Alchemists in general develop bad and come with tons of unwanted skills, but Neela is the exception.

You can't dismiss so quick an armorer and archery specialists, if you already played vs skilled opponents.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted October 22, 2016 03:20 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 17:38, 22 Oct 2016.

Salamandre said:
...but Neela is the exception.

The problem is: she isn't. When HotA crew decided to give her Tactics instead of Scholar she was the exception but not anymore. Ok, Armorer specialty is theorectically good but (as whe discussed the other day when I said I would like to play a Wizard with Archery specialty) the primay skill distribution is so bad it basically nullifies it and she has so many chances for bad magic skills  that you will frequently end up with another so so skill. This is far from good and yet I would still prefer to play with her to Ivor, Alkin or Jabarkas who develop way better but have no usefull specialty (assuming you are not from their original town).

P.S. I must admit that the fact that Neela is a pretty girl strongly influencies my preference, I hate to have poor-looking heroes .

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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted October 22, 2016 03:38 PM

Knights leadership may not be any equal to offence skill but it does help you. Alchemist secondary skill is somewhat useless tough. Knight att/def is also good.
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AlHazin
AlHazin


Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
posted October 22, 2016 06:13 PM
Edited by AlHazin at 14:33, 06 Nov 2016.

HeymlicH said:
ok, let's exclude magic heros, they all suck.So, the question would be: Which is the worst might hero?

The answer is: Knights and Alchemists.There is no point in discussing, which of these two might be a little worse or better, both classes are bad. Never pick a knight or alchemist as main. Yes, that includes Orrin and Neela. All other might classes have some heros that can serve as main.


If knights are bad might heroes than what about rangers? At least the knights have only necromancy restriction, while the rangers have it restricted + fire magic and are more defensive in their primary skills advancement. Knights are quite good.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 22, 2016 06:30 PM

Quote:
If knights are bad might heroes than what about rangers? At least the knights have only necromancy restriction, while the rangers have it restricted + fire magic


Not relevant, rangers have often nice specialties unlike Knights... also, Fire Magic is considered the worst of the four for competitive play, it scales really badly to late-game and skill doesn't provide much use (except with Berserk, but is easily nullified by a treasure-level artifact).

Quote:
ever pick a knight or alchemist as main


But as a starter hero, if according to you both Alchemist and Knights and all magic classes suck, which do you choose as a starter with Castle or Tower? You can only choose knight/priest or alchem/wizard.


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AlHazin
AlHazin


Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
posted October 22, 2016 07:11 PM
Edited by AlHazin at 14:34, 06 Nov 2016.

NimoStar said:
Not relevant, rangers have often nice specialties unlike Knights... also, Fire Magic is considered the worst of the four for competitive play, it scales really badly to late-game and skill doesn't provide much use (except with Berserk, but is easily nullified by a treasure-level artifact).


Maybe. But I'd still take Orrin over Ivor. Also in multiplayer, most "good" rangers are banned. The knight also has more chances to get any magic school than the ranger, except for Earth and the difference isn't big.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 22, 2016 09:22 PM

Quote:
Also in multiplayer, most "good" rangers are banned. The knight also has more chances to get any magic school than the ranger, except for Earth and the difference isn't big.


Orrin is a good one, but Castle archers aren't that good, while the Elf is very powerful.
Furthermore, there is Thorgrim and Mephala... specialties which are very good.

[Although some Rangers have this problem too (comparably few)], ALL Knights are crippled late-game because of Leadership, which becomes useless when artifacts and buildings will already give +3 morale / +3 luck every time, or worse still, the enemy uses Spirit of Opression.


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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 22, 2016 09:29 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 21:33, 22 Oct 2016.

Ivor is a whole galaxy by himself. In multiplayer games, rampart is the most selected starting town, as his centaurs and elves are the best, both for early exploration  and level up. And in this configuration, Ivor comes with some elves on his own (a max of 12 possible!) so naturally people select him as well. Rampart is the town with the best ratio win-loss in all tournaments, then Ivor comes as the best hero ever, statistically, due to rampart dominance.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted October 22, 2016 09:57 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 22:03, 22 Oct 2016.

bloodsucker said:
(assuming you are not from their original town).
Why do you think I add this? Rampart has at least three heroes way better then Ivor and yet many people (myself included) will consider him as starting hero just because of the extra elves.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 22, 2016 10:06 PM

Actually my answer was not directed to anyone in particular, but to all analyses about Ranger < Knight, and also to underline that towns diversity and balance is a more complex problem that only class vs class, HP vs HP and such.

The only thing which is definitive and on which we all agree upon is that magic heroes level up sucks.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 23, 2016 01:05 AM

THe future HotA releases will try to fix that, though, it has been stated, and it's a very high-fidelity project (in fact more purist than H3 original in some ways ).

But many people still play without mods mostly.

And I still believe rangers are better than knights because of specialties and starting skills, and also because I don't like leadership and it's lack of unique/late-game effect.
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Maag
Maag


Adventuring Hero
posted October 23, 2016 07:25 PM
Edited by Maag at 23:04, 25 Oct 2016.

Worst hero classes are probably witches, alchemists (with one big exception, Neela, who is among best heroes of game, imho equals Mephala). Wizards too ofc. Perhaps they are worst (contrary to their powerful class name).

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AlHazin
AlHazin


Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
posted October 23, 2016 07:42 PM
Edited by AlHazin at 14:36, 06 Nov 2016.

@NimoStar : Sure mate but still rangers are for me as good as knights but not better. They indeed have good specials, but in the "leveling-up" department knights have better choices (Ballistics, most magic school, offense...) ans better primaru advancement. And yes leadership sucks in the end for knights, but luck sucks just as much for rangers (even if it's not predominant it comes very often), as there is the Hourglass of the Evil Hour that will do the same. So... I don't know. We should maje a special thread for it.


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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 23, 2016 09:54 PM

As it's part of ths discussion I don't think we need a new thread, plus, that woukld be deserting this one :v

If lucks comes up, you can just not take it (unless the alternative is very, very bad)... however Leadership is there and you are stuck with it. As for ranger's abilities that come up, there's Earth Magic, Archery, Resistance... and hourglass of the evil hour is less commonly taken than Spirit of Opression. However, I do concede that morale is generally better than luck, as you can best control it and it counters negative morale, while in H3 there's really no negative luck. Still, luck plays a very minor part in rangers as it can be avoided, while in knights not only you always have it, but also it takes one of your starting secondary skills, and makes knights overall much less varied with the skills to choose from both starting and in advancement. Rangers have a lot of variation, while knights very little :/ thus my marked preference for the first over the latter.
Also, the starting pikemen of knights make them slow, while rangers start with fast centaurs and (maybe) elves - dwarves can easily be left to guard. If you leave starting pikemen t guard with knights, you are left with basically no army to go around and fight creatures. Thus rangers are superior
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HeymlicH
HeymlicH


Known Hero
posted October 24, 2016 09:12 AM

@knights vs Rangers: The problem with knights is, that they can learn all 4 magic schools, while Rangers can't learn fire magic. Because of that, Rangers are guaranteed to learn earth magic, while knights may end up getting earth very late or not at all. Of course it is fine to give Orrin 3k Exp to see what happens, and if he is offered earth at lvl 4, make him your main. But if he gets something else, I wouldn't invest any further into him.

As for tower: Neela sucks, sorry. She never gets the right skills, it is really annoying. With tower the best choice by far for a starting hero is Cyra, or if Diplo is banned just get Aine and hope for a ranger.

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Maag
Maag


Adventuring Hero
posted October 24, 2016 03:25 PM
Edited by Maag at 15:38, 24 Oct 2016.

HeymlicH said:

As for tower: Neela sucks, sorry. She never gets the right skills, it is really annoying. With tower the best choice by far for a starting hero is Cyra, or if Diplo is banned just get Aine and hope for a ranger.


Weird. I pick her always with Tower and use her as main until end of game. She rarely fails me. From all the games i remember only very few, where had to choose useless secondary skill. I made long post somewhere to explain it. She has Scholar, which is pretty weak, but better, than most other useless skills, like Mysticism, Eagle eye, Learning, Navigation, etc.
In the other hand, if hero starts with 2 secondary skills, that means in the beginning u have much more options to choose "a must" sec. skills.

As strange as it feels, when i play Stronghold, using Crag Hack, he only has Offense. U basically get it to expert very fast and then u are offered 2 new skills, if both are useless, u end up one useless sec. skill slot. But i often have even 2 or 3 useless skills with him, by end of development and that is something, what really annoys me, EVEN when he every other aspect triumphs.
Using Hack i usually avoid in the beginning to choose "Adv. Offense", instead hoping for other crucial skills, like Earth, Air, Logistics, etc.. but often get Luck, Estates, etc. instead...


Coming back to Tower i would like to mention that Cyra is Wizard, Aine also. They get less attack and defense than Alchemists, afaik. Plus Diplo really is banned in 90% or more multiplayer games, so that is not really an option. Aine is just good for secondary hero to earn money.
The only Wizard, that is playable is Solmyr and that also only in the beginning, to clean up area. Do not make magic hero to your main.

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