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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: [MOD] In-Game Creature Info Page (for all H5)
Thread: [MOD] In-Game Creature Info Page (for all H5) This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · NEXT»
thGryphn
thGryphn


Famous Hero
posted November 02, 2016 02:59 PM
Edited by thGryphn at 11:34, 23 Dec 2016.

[MOD] In-Game Creaturepedia (for all H5)

This idea started with MMH5.5 in mind but I figured I can produce a version for the un-modded game as well.

It now has a name: Creaturepedia!

Doing this is not as easy as it might sound since a lot of creature info is buried within non-textual game files, specifically xml form .xdb files.

REVISED!!!

DONE!

UPDATED TO V9

Now also available for the Vanilla Heroes 5 TotE (3.1) game. I don't know why you're still not upgrading to MMH5.5, but below is the link...


Important Note: Aside from providing a full-featured creaturepedia, this mod also improves the visual quality of Town Build, Hire Creatures, Creature Info, Magic Guild, Combat Results, and Necro Raise screens.

MMH5.5 Creaturepedia v9

Polish version for v9 is pending.



Heroes V TotE (3.1) Creaturepedia v9

UPDATED TO V9



The mod features the following:

1) View a whole faction at the same time, 7 tiers organized in 7 slots. All 8 factions and Neutrals as a separate faction is included, which means all creatures are included.

2) Each slot by default compares the two upgrades at the tier. Exception is the Neutrals, obviously.

3) With a button, you can compare Upgrade 1 OR Upgrade 2 vs the base creature, and go back to comparing Upgrade 1 vs Upgrade 2.

4) Each slot is comprised of two sub-pages, which you can flip back and forth.

5) First said sub-page shows the stats (default), second sub-page shows the abilities.

6) List 11 creature stats: attack, defense, damage, initiative, speed, hitpoints, mana, shots, experience (per killed), growth per week, and cost.

7) List all abilities/characteristics with detailed descriptions, as well as the names and mastery of spells for "Caster" creatures, in tooltips.

8) One can switch between factions from within the page for quick browsing.

9) Since all texts and images are individually rendered, the visual quality is great at any resolution.

10) It can be accessed from the Creature Hire and Creature Upgrade screens from within the Town view (as well as from the Kingdom Overview), plus at the Creature Info page (the one that shows upon double-click on the creature). The last bit means it can also be accessed during Combat. One additional hint: you can double-right-click enemy creatures to display the Creature Info page during Combat

11) the version for Heroes 5 TotE (3.1) includes access to the Creaturepedia from the Town Build screen as well.

















Now back to my other life, which I assure you I have

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Promising
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted November 02, 2016 04:01 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 16:06, 02 Nov 2016.

Hi, your graphics look nice, but I have some doubt about the usefulness of this design.

First realize, you should not make something along the lines of dredknights manual or what the current creature hire screen already offers, because then it doesn't have a purpose!

The game elements that are currently missing are overview of the entire faction (H3) and the ability to see stats of 2 upgrades simultaneously on the screen.

This design only settles the second problem, but only marginally since you will first have to get into this menu and select the creatures from the drop down menus, while in the creature hire screen you can alternatively also swap quickly between right clicking 2 creatures. For an advanced player like me it would probably not be worth the trouble to open the screen, if i just want to compare 2 upgrades.

In order to really make something that the game is missing, IMO the player should be able to click a button in the hire creatures menu or townscreen and see immediately all stats from all UPGRADED creatures next to each other on screen.

When I was brainstorming about this I made this in excel to give an idea of the info i wanted to capture in one screen (I know this looks ugly, this is just to show what I mean). Creature portraits were supposed to be placed above the names and I experimented with highlighted cells to clarify the most important traits the player needs to consider.




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thGryphn
thGryphn


Famous Hero
posted November 02, 2016 07:16 PM

I see what you're saying but there is a huge roadblock for implementing that: I do not have a means to open in one click the faction page of the active faction.

I can put a button anywhere but the page the button opens will have to be static, same for any player across the game. I wish I could open the Haven page from within a Haven castle, etc. but I am not aware of any way to do that. Heck, if I did, I would use it when implementing the in-game skillwheel.

So, unless you know how to do that, I must unfortunately implement a page from which one can access any/every faction, which is exactly what I show above.

I see however that you would like to see a one-stop shop for the whole faction. There is value in its convenience for power players but if I do that it will have to be very cramped. Mind you, there are creatures with as many as 7 abilities and some creatures as many as 4 spells, and I would have to allocate that space. So it will be even more cramped than what you show...

The design I showed you does not resemble dredknight's app at all, I don't know where you got that... My purpose was to give as much info as possible about a creature, as a complete visual encyclopedia if you will. Some of this info is not accessible from within the game, especially info on creature spells. Details of creature abilities can be accessed in game but after another click or two...

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Promising
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted November 02, 2016 08:24 PM

I understand, but my plan back then was to have either 8 mini buttons in the hire screen or after you open the screen there will be 8 buttons.

when I said 'like dk's manual' I meant you have to click on the creature to get the info, which is what you also do in the hirescreen.

I wonder which creature has 7 abilities?, but for spells I would make it just say 'caster' and when you hover over it, it reads the spells in the tooltip. I also think we can skip the ability 'large creature' to reduce.
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thGryphn
thGryphn


Famous Hero
posted November 02, 2016 08:51 PM
Edited by thGryphn at 20:52, 02 Nov 2016.

So you wouldn't want info like what a spell does, how much damage it inflicts, etc?

More importantly, how about the base creatures? Ignore them completely? What if you're contemplating about whether to build the 5th tier creature OR the 6th tier creature, due to lack of resources? Plus, in some games, you can't upgrade for an extended period of time due to resource scarcity...

Further, you don't think it'd be useful to compare your creatures with the enemies' side-by-side? I think it would be... you know what they say about knowing your enemy



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magnomagus
magnomagus


Promising
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted November 02, 2016 10:08 PM

For contemplating between upgrading 5 or 6, you are still mostly interested in the stats of the creatures you are upgrading into.

Ideally I would prefer 8 mini buttons which go to 8 screens and possibly (but not necessarily) each of the 8 screens has a second screen that shows the unupgraded stats (not highest priority). It is the missing overview feature from H3 I find most important because it was popular and streamlines the gameplay.

This also allows you to have the overviews of all your enemies creatures very quickly available.

For spell statistics I would prefer a separate spell manual accessible from the mage guild.
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thGryphn
thGryphn


Famous Hero
posted November 03, 2016 10:14 AM

Alright, I don't have the graphical design yet (so visualize for now) but here's what I can have the page deliver:

1) See the whole faction (7 slots) and one empty slot (for optional comparison) on one page.

2) Each slot compares two creatures side-by-side, which are by default the two upgrades, organized in tiers.

3) With a button, you can compare Upgrade 1 OR Upgrade 2 vs the base creature, and go back to comparing Upgrade 1 vs Upgrade 2.

4) The comparison slots are comprised of two sub-pages, which you can flip back and forth.

5) First said sub-page shows the stats, second sub-page shows the abilities (for the compared creatures).

6) Ability descriptions, as well as the list of spells for "Caster" creatures, will be in tooltips.

7) The empty slot is for optional use, and you can select a tier (or creature in case of neutrals) from another faction.

How does that sound?


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magnomagus
magnomagus


Promising
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted November 03, 2016 12:32 PM

Overall that sounds good, but wouldn't there be a way to show the stats and ability list at the same time?

To be honest I would aready be happy with a static picture if that was possible, maybe you can save space on less flipping buttons.

I also wonder if the 8th slot isn't too complex, if it does more than showing the elementals, but all creatures it must have a huge choice menu, while there are already 8 faction buttons. I'm afraid it will look excessive (modifying for the sake of modifying), not like a retail product. At least I think the extra time and effort is better spend on a spell manual.
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thGryphn
thGryphn


Famous Hero
posted November 03, 2016 12:58 PM

magnomagus said:
Overall that sounds good, but wouldn't there be a way to show the stats and ability list at the same time?

To be honest I would aready be happy with a static picture if that was possible, maybe you can save space on less flipping buttons.

I also wonder if the 8th slot isn't too complex, if it does more than showing the elementals, but all creatures it must have a huge choice menu, while there are already 8 faction buttons. I'm afraid it will look excessive (modifying for the sake of modifying), not like a retail product. At least I think the extra time and effort is better spend on a spell manual.


Stats and abilities will not fit together unless I make things horribly cramped, most likely beyond legibility. I'd like the end product be aesthetically pleasing as well. Besides, I think it would work nicely: The first thing a player would  like to see is probably the stats, then one can compare the abilities with a click.

The 8th slot, because there will be space for it (visualize a 2x4 grid) and it would enable an additional feature. Rest assured it will not look bad at all: to begin with the 8th slot will show 8 buttons (for other factions and neutrals), and those buttons will disappear upon a selection. When the selection is being displayed, you can change the selection by bringing the same 8 buttons back.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Promising
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted November 03, 2016 11:36 PM

Well if it is REALLY not possible (not like skillwheel where some things were first impossible and then suddenly possible) then I guess this is the best we can do.

Since I don't need to do the work on the 8th slot, i guess it is not really my problem, but if you want to reduce it to just show the faction elemental then I'm already happy.
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thGryphn
thGryphn


Famous Hero
posted November 04, 2016 08:52 PM

First post revised with the new design...

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Promising
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted November 04, 2016 10:50 PM

This looks great!

But can you remove the power rating, since they have no relationship with the creatures stats. These numbers only serve to balance necromancy.
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thGryphn
thGryphn


Famous Hero
posted November 05, 2016 02:05 PM

OK, removed the power rating...

Here's a design decision I made, that I'd like to share... About the arrangement of tiers, instead of

1 - 2 - 3 - 4
5 - 6 - 7

I am implementing

1 - 3 - 5 - 7
2 - 4 - 6

I suppose the first one can be argued for as well but the bottom arrangement keeps the tiers close to each other actually close to each other in the grid. It also resembles the H3 ordering, just transposed



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magnomagus
magnomagus


Promising
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted November 05, 2016 03:53 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 15:54, 05 Nov 2016.

I'm sorry but I don't think I like that and it is not like heroes 3, the heroes 3 screen reads from left to right just like any text in western civilization.
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thGryphn
thGryphn


Famous Hero
posted November 05, 2016 06:07 PM

Well, in case of H3 where you have a 4 x 2 grid, it makes absolute sense to use left to right. Having 4 rows gives you the direct feeling of increasing tiers as you go down, finally reaching the glorious 7th tier.

When you have a 2 x 4 grid though, left to right arrangement does not feel natural. We're not reading text here, so I don't think that analogy applies. What we need is a logic behind the visual design and you have that with the second arrangement: things are arranged in columns and as you go left to right column-by-column, you feel that the tiers are increasing, finally reaching that 7th tier.

If you want a text reading analogy, this is exactly how you would read a multi-column text: read the first column first, and so on

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Promising
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted November 06, 2016 12:15 AM
Edited by magnomagus at 00:17, 06 Nov 2016.

Ok, I will just agree to disagree on this one.

I don't care about the logic behind it, it is just that my brains don't work like that since they are used to reading text.
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thGryphn
thGryphn


Famous Hero
posted December 01, 2016 02:05 PM
Edited by thGryphn at 14:13, 01 Dec 2016.

thGryphn said:
Alright, I found some more time to work on this, and I have two questions:


1) How to access the creature info pages?
To clarify, there will be 9 pages for 8 factions plus neutrals.

Placing 9 buttons on a game window is somewhat problematic: either the buttons will have to be tiny, which makes it extremely difficult for them to be descriptive, or I will have to get creative to extend the window, etc.

Somewhat easier implementation is to have a single button (like in the skill wheel), which takes you to a page where you select the faction. The only downside is that this means two clicks to reach the faction page.

So, which one: 9 buttons, or a single button?



2) From which page/window would you like to access the creature info page?

I'm thinking "Hire Screen" and "Build Screen" pages in town view, "Army and Stats" page in hero view, and the "Creature Info" page when you double-click a creature.

Would that be sufficient?





magnomagus said:
I don't like one button, because it doesn't allow the speed of reference needed. My initial idea was 8 buttons (same size and design as the skillwheel buttons) because I want them to be placed symmetrical (otherwise ugly). If you want 9, I'd say I want them all in a row (or a 9 tile square, but i've no idea where that's going to fit). This seems currently to only fit in creature upgrade window, but maybe it also fits in hire creatures if the 'hire creatures' text is reduced to 'Recruits' or an extra bar (background texture) with row of buttons is placed in the empty space next to resource bar and above the hire tab.

Personally I don't care about the hero screens, I think it will look redundant and i don't want the hero UI to slow down.

I don't know what you mean by tiny, are you talking about skillwheel size, is that impossible to manage?





thGryphn said:
I think I have a solution:




Expanding vertically wouldn't work because it clashes with the resource bar...



magnomagus said:
In my opinion this looks weird, you open the hire creature windows and suddenly it seems to be predominantly an encyclopedia of
all creatures in the game. Like the skillwheel mods I want it to look like either part of the retail game or otherwise like a subtle hidden feature.

Can we please first of all go back to the skillwheel button, since continuity in the UI is important.

also making the column bigger doesn't work for 4:3 and 16:10 format.

Lastly, i think this discussion needs to move the thread you specifically made for it.


Oops, sorry about posting these in the main thread, I really thought it was this thread

Reading your response again and again, I think you got the picture wrong. In that case, let me try to explain: This is the creature hire window that I extended slightly so that right from there the player can click on one of these 9 buttons and access the creature info page for that faction.

I don't know if it helps but see this:



Buttons can surely be arranged better, symmetrically. This was done as a hasty draft

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thGryphn
thGryphn


Famous Hero
posted December 01, 2016 05:27 PM

Skeggy said:
thGryphn said:

Expanding vertically wouldn't work because it clashes with the resource bar...



Perhaps two small buttons would be proper way to address certain issues, like the current small button for skillwheel, in the “Hire creatures” page.
One small button that opens domicile faction creatures page detailed info, and the other small button that reveals extended column with big buttons for all other detailed faction pages.
If there would be no problems, two buttons could be also added to hero “Army and Stats” info page.


I wish I could detect the domicile faction but I don't know if that's even possible. That is why we have only two alternatives: either

1) include a single button to open a page or frame of these 9 faction buttons, or
2) show these 9 faction buttons directly.

I am quite indifferent between the two, but magno likes to access the faction page in one click (latter option).

As I said before, extending the creature hire frame (which as you know is the same frame used everywhere) vertically does not work, so I decided to extend it sideways (by mere 60 pixels) to place the 9 faction vertically as pictured above...

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Promising
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted December 01, 2016 07:17 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 19:18, 01 Dec 2016.

Quote:
Reading your response again and again, I think you got the picture wrong. In that case, let me try to explain: This is the creature hire window that I extended slightly so that right from there the player can click on one of these 9 buttons and access the creature info page for that faction.


No, this was exactly what I understood, and already for the fact that it doesn't fit 4:3 it is already disqualifying.

EDIT: I also think the 9th buttons should be dropped if the elementals are already on the faction pages it is just excessive and unnecessary.



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thGryphn
thGryphn


Famous Hero
posted December 01, 2016 08:54 PM
Edited by thGryphn at 20:54, 01 Dec 2016.

magnomagus said:
Quote:
Reading your response again and again, I think you got the picture wrong. In that case, let me try to explain: This is the creature hire window that I extended slightly so that right from there the player can click on one of these 9 buttons and access the creature info page for that faction.


No, this was exactly what I understood, and already for the fact that it doesn't fit 4:3 it is already disqualifying.

EDIT: I also think the 9th buttons should be dropped if the elementals are already on the faction pages it is just excessive and unnecessary.





I don't know what you mean by "it doesn't fit 4:3". It fits any aspect ratio just fine. I widened the frame by only 60 pixels.

Are you sure you're getting this correctly? What doesn't fit is extending the frame vertically.

Mind you, this wider frame will not appear everywhere, but only where the buttons are meaningful to have.

If you understood the picture correctly, then it seems you're contradicting yourself. You said you don't want one button, but then you don't like to see the multiple buttons either?? You say you like the skillwheel mods, and they achieve that cleanliness by having a single button.

I'm trying to come up with solutions that agrees with you, but you really need to decide how you want this done. Describe it to me and I'll see if I can do it.

I had said before that I'm indifferent between having a single button vs multiple buttons but I am more inclined now towards having a single button on the interface. That button would take you to a menu of 9 faction buttons... It means two clicks to reach the desired faction but I think that's perfectly fine. It's not like it's going to take time to load. Just two simple clicks.

The elementals are not on the faction pages, and there are other neutrals than the elementals. So, I intend to keep the button for the neutrals.

Internals are coming along nicely. I have all the creature info parsed, sorted and written into new files using a 450+ line Matlab code. It's almost finished now, but I need to finalize the how the pages will be triggered... one button? or, multiple buttons?



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