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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Best fourth level creature
Thread: Best fourth level creature [ This thread is 2 pages long: (1) 2 ]
Thunder
Thunder


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted April 13, 2002 12:42 PM bonus applied.
Edited By: Thunder on 15 Apr 2002

Best fourth level creature

So I did put together a test map to decide which creature is the best. I have to say that there were some luck factors like morale and battlefield obstacles included. The battles were fought on dirt (neutral terrain and no movement penalty).


BLACK DRAGONS

Macigal immunity of Black Dragons ensures that Lightning from the Thunderbirds won't affect them, neither does the spells from Faerie Dragons or ability of Bone Dragons and Ice Demons. Breath attack didn't help in these fights.

3 Black Dragons versus 6 Devils: Victory, 1 Black Dragon remains.
3 Black Dragons versus 6 Dragon Golems: Victory, 1 Black Dragon remains.
3 Black Dragons versus 9 Thunderbirds: Victory, 2 Black Dragons remain.
3 Black Dragons versus 6 Angels: Defeat, 3 Angels remain.
3 Black Dragons versus 6 Behemoths: Defeat, 2 Behemoths remain.
3 Black Dragons versus 12 Champions: Victory, 1 Black Dragon remains.
3 Black Dragons versus 6 Bone Dragons: Victory, 2 Black Dragons remain.
3 Black Dragons versus 6 Titans: Victory, 1 Black Dragon remain.
3 Black Dragons versus 6 Faerie Dragons: Victory, 3 Black Dragons remain.
3 Black Dragons versus 6 Phoenixes: Defeat, 4 Phoenixes remain.
3 Black Dragons versus 6 Hydras: Defeat, 2 Hydras remain.

Victories: 14
Defeats: 8

TITANS

Chaos Ward worked efficiently against Chaos creatures. Their power overall has dropped dramatically when compared to HoMM2 or HoMM3, where they were among the top creatures.

6 Titans versus 6 Faerie Dragons: Defeat, 3 Faerie Dragons remain.
6 Titans versus 6 Behemoths: Defeat, 4 Behemoths remain.
6 Titans versus 6 Bone Dragons: Defeat, 5 Bone Dragons remain.
6 Titans versus 6 Phoenixes: Victory, 4 Titans remain.
6 Titans versus 6 Devils: Defeat, 4 Devils remain.
6 Titans versus 9 Thunderbirds, Defeat, 6 Thunderbirds remain.
6 Titans versus 6 Hydras: Victory, 5 Titans remain.
5 Titans (Yes, only 5 as Black Dragons attacked right after Hydras) versus 3 Black Dragons: Victory (Morale!), 2 Titans remain.
6 Titans versus 6 Golem Dragons: Defeat, 2 Golem Dragons remain.
6 Titans versus 12 Champions: Defeat, 4 Champions remain.
6 Titans versus 6 Angels: Defeat, 2 Angels remain.

Victories: 4
Defeats: 18

HYDRAS

Although Hydra had bad results, it fared surprisingly well compared to the fact that  their area attack was of no use. So their results did show only a flawed image of their true strength.

6 Hydras versus 9 Thunderbirds: Defeat, 4 Thunderbirds remain.
6 Hydras versus 6 Angels: Defeat, 5 Angels remain.
6 Hydras versus 6 Devils: Defeat, 2 Devils remain.
6 Hydras versus 6 Bone Dragons: Victory, 1 Hydra remains.
6 Hydras versus 6 Dragon Golems: Victory, 3 Hydras remain.
6 Hydras versus 6 Faerie Dragons: Defeat, 6 Faerie Dragons remain.
6 Hydras versus 6 Behemoths: Defeat, 3 Behemoths remain.
6 Hydras versus 6 Titans: Defeat, 2 Titans remain.
6 Hydras versus 6 Phoenixes: Defeat, 2 Phoenixes remain (due to rebirth).
6 Hydras versus 12 Champions: Defeat , 8 Champions remain.
6 Hydras versus 3 Black Dragons: Defeat, 2 Black Dragons remain.

Victories: 6
Defeats: 16

DRAGON GOLEMS

Mechanical ability worked well against Bone Dragons as their Fear ability won't work on Dragon Golems, and thus the Dragon Golems were able to retaliate normally. Negate First Strike ability was handy against Champions. I'm surprised of the bad results against Angels.

6 Dragon Golems versus 6 Bone Dragons: Victory, 3 Dragon Golems remain.
6 Dragon Golems versus 6 Devils: Defeat, 1 Devil remains.
6 Dragon Golems versus 6 Faerie Dragons: Defeat, 3 Faerie Dragons remain.
6 Dragon Golems versus 9 Thunderbirds: Defeat, 5 Thunderbirds remain.
6 Dragon Golems versus 6 Phoenixes: Defeat, 2 Phoenixes remain.
6 Dragon Golems versus 6 Behemoths: Defeat, 2 Behemoths remain.
6 Dragon Golems versus 3 Black Dragons: Victory, 1 Dragon Golem remains.
6 Dragon Golems versus 6 Titans: Victory, 3 Dragon Golems remain.
6 Dragon Golems versus 6 Hydras: Victory, 4 Dragon Golems remain.
6 Dragon Golems versus 6 Angels: Defeat, 6 Angels remain.
6 Dragon Golems versus 12 Champions: Victory, 4 Dragon Golems remain.

Victories: 9
Defeats: 13

ANGELS

Not so powerful as they were in HoMM3 anymore. They are able to resurrect themselves now. The ability I used a lot.

6 Angels versus 6 Behemoths: Defeat, 1 Behemoth remains.
6 Angels versus 6 Devils: Defeat, 1 Devil remains.
6 Angels versus 6 Bone Dragons: Defeat, 4 Bone Dragons remain.
6 Angels versus 6 Faerie Dragons: Defeat, 2 Faerie Dragons remain.
6 Angels versus 6 Phoenixes: Victory, 2 Angels remain.
6 Angels versus 9 Thunderbirds: Defeat, 6 Thunderbirds remain.
6 Angels versus 6 Hydras: Victory, 3 Angels remain.
6 Angels versus 6 Titans: Victory, 4 Angels remain.
6 Angels versus 12 Champions: Defeat, 2 Champions remain.
6 Angels versus 3 Black Dragons: Victory, 3 Angels remain.
6 Angels versus  Dragon Golems: Victory, 5 Angels remain.

Victories: 11
Defeats: 11

DEVILS

Devils got some lucky victories due to the icing ability of Ice Demons (against Faerie Dragons was one), which Devils are able to summon. Life Ward ensured almost certain victory against Life creatures.

6 Devils versus 6 Phoenixes : Victory, 3 Devils remain.
6 Devils versus 3 Black Dragons: Defeat, 1 Black Dragon remains.
6 Devils versus 6 Angels: Victory, 2 Devils remain.
6 Devils versus 12 Champions: Victory, 2 Devils remain.
6 Devils versus  6 Hydras: Defeat, 3 Hydras remain.
6 Devils versus 6 Dragon Golems: Defeat, 3 Dragon Golems remain.
6 Devils versus 6 Faerie Dragons: Victory, 2 Devils remain.
6 Devils versus 6 Titans: Victory, 3 Devils remain.
6 Devils versus 6 Behemoths: Defeat, 4 Behemoths remain.
6 Devils versus 6 Bone Dragons: Victory, 2 Devils remain.
6 Devils versus 9 Thunderbirds: Defeat, 6 Thunderbirds remain.

Victories: 12
Defeats: 10

CHAMPIONS

Their numbers helped them most. Jousting bonus and First Strike were also factors that helped them to victory.

12 Champions versus 9 Thunderbirds: Defeat, 4 Thunderbirds remain.
12 Champions versus 6 Devils: Defeat, 3 Devils remain.
12 Champions versus 6 Faerie Dragons: Defeat, 4 Faerie Dragons remain.
12 Champions versus 6 Bone Dragons: Defeat, 3 Bone Dragons remain.
12 Champions versus 6 Phoenixes: Victory, 5 Champions remain.
12 Champions versus 6 Behemoths: Victory, 2 Champions remain.
12 Champions versus 3 Black Dragons: Defeat, 2 Black Dragons remain.
12 Champions versus 6 Titans: Victory, 4 Champions remain.
12 Champions versus 6 Hydras: Victory, 7 Champions remain.
12 Champions versus 6 Dragon Golems: Defeat, 3 Dragon Golems remain.
12 Champions versus 6 Angels: Defeat, 4 Angels remain.

Victories: 8
Defeats: 14

BONE DRAGONS

Their Fear ability functions like the no retalition ability, except that it won't work on mechanical creatures or creatures immune to magic. They also took less damage from Titans shots, so the Fear ability didn't backfire against them.

6 Bone Dragons versus 6 Phoenix: Victory, 4 Bone Dragons remain.
6 Bone Dragons versus 3 Black Dragons: Defeat, 1 Black Dragons remain.
6 Bone Dragons versus 6 Hydras: Defeat, 3 Hydras remain.
6 Bone Dragons versus 6 Angels: Victory, 4 Bone Dragons remain.
6 Bone Dragons versus 9 Thunderbirds: Victory, 2 Bone Dragons remain.
6 Bone Dragons versus 12 Champions: Defeat, 6 Champions remain.
6 Bone Dragons versus 6 Faerie Dragons: Defeat, 5 Faerie Dragons remain.
6 Bone Dragons versus 6 Dragon Golems: Defeat, 3 Dragon Golems remain.
6 Bone Dragons versus 6 Titans: Victory, 4 Bone Dragons remain.
6 Bone Dragons versus 6 Behemoths: Defeat: 3 Behemoths remain.
6 Bone Dragons versus 6 Devils: Victory, 4 Bone Dragons remain.

Victories: 9
Defeats: 13

FAERIE DRAGONS

Bow before the majesty of Faeries!  Only creatures that they didn't have chances were Black Dragons. And now you can wonder why I think Faerie Dragons are superior choice over Phoenixes. Their Magic Mirror made Thunderbird's ability to backfire.

6 Faerie Dragons versus 6 Phoenix: Defeat, 1 Phoenix remains.
6 Faerie Dragons versus 6 Devils: Victory, 4 Faerie Dragons remain.
6 Faerie Dragons versus 6 Angels: Victory, 2 Faerie Dragons remain.
6 Faerie Dragons versus 6 Bone Dragons: Victory, 5 Faerie Dragons remain.
6 Faerie Dragons versus 12 Champions: Victory, 4 Faerie Dragons remain.
6 Faerie Dragons versus 9 Thunderbirds: Victory, 5 Faerie Dragons remain.
6 Faerie Dragons versus 6 Dragon Golems: Victory, 5 Thunderbirds remain.
6 Faerie Dragons versus 6 Behemoths: Victory, 6 Faerie Dragons remain.
6 Faerie Dragons versus 6 Titans: Victory, 4 Faerie Dragons remain.
6 Faerie Dragons versus 6 Black Dragons: Defeat, 3 Black Dragons remain.
6 Faerie Dragons versus 6 Hydras: Victory, 6 Faerie Dragons remain.

Victories: 18
Defeats: 4

PHOENIXES

Rebirth ability helped them to victory surprisingy seldom. Fire resistance helped against Black Dragons, a lot. Breath attack was of no use, once again.

6 Phoenixes versus 6 Devils: Victory, 1 Phoenix remains.
6 Phoenixes versus 6 Bone Dragons: Defeat,  3 Bone Dragons remain.
6 Phoenixes versus 6 Angels: Defeat, 2 Angels remain.
6 Phoenixes versus 9 Thunderbirds: Defeat, 5 Thunderbirds remain.
6 Phoenixes versus 12 Champions: Victory, 2 Phoenixes remain.
6 Phoenixes versus 6 Behemoths: Defeat, 4 Behemoths remain.
6 Phoenixes versus 6 Dragon Golems: Victory, 3 Phoenixes remain.
6 Phoenixes versus 6 Titans: Victory, 3 Phoenixes remain.
6 Phoenixes versus 3 Black Dragons: Victory, 4 Phoenixes remain.
6 Phoenixes versus 6 Faerie Dragons: Defeat, 1 Faerie Dragon remains.
6 Phoenixes versus 6 Hydras: Victory, 3 Phoenixes remain.

Victories: 10
Defeats: 12

BEHEMOTHS

Behemoths ability to do massive damage ensured their way to second trophy. They fared surprisingly well.

6 Behemoths versus 3 Black Dragons: Defeat, 1 Black Dragon remains.
6 Behemoths versus 6 Hydras: Defeat, 1 Hydra remains.
6 Behemoths versus 6 Angels: Victory, 3 Behemoths remain.
6 Behemoths versus 6 Phoenixes: Victory, 1 Behemoth remains.
6 Behemoths versus 6 Faerie Dragons: Defeat, 6 Faerie Dragons remain.
6 Behemoths versus 12 Champions: Victory, 4 Behemoths remain.
6 Behemoths versus 6 Titans: Victory, 2 Behemoths remain.
6 Behemoths versus 6 Devils: Victory, 4 Behemoths remain.
6 Behemoths versus 6 Dragon Golems: Victory, 1 Behemoth remains.
6 Behemoths versus 6 Bone Dragons: Victory, 3 Behemoths remain.
6 Behemoths versus 9 Thunderbirds: Defeat, 1 Thunderbird remains.

Victories: 15
Defeats: 7

THUNDERBIRDS

Thunderbirds and Behemoths were both without the breeding pit bonuses, and this is engouraging fact for might fanatics as they both seem to be rather good. Thunderbirds' lightning ability was nasty.

9 Thunderbirds versus 3 Black Dragons: Defeat, 1 Black Dragon remains.
9 Thunderbirds versus 6 Angels: Victory, 4 Thunderbirds remain.
9 Thunderbirds versus 6 Hydras: Victory, 4 Thunderbirds remain.
9 Thunderbirds versus 12 Champions: Victory, 3 Thunderbirds remain.
9 Thunderbirds versus 6 Phoenixes: Victory, 5 Thunderbirds remain.
9 Thunderbirds versus 6 Dragon Golems: Victory, 7 Thunderbirds remain.
9 Thunderbirds versus 6 Faerie Dragons: Defeat, 5 Faerie Dragons remain.
9 Thunderbirds versus 6 Titans:  Victory, 3 Thunderbirds remain.
9 Thunderbirds versus 6 Devils: Defeat, 2 Devils remain.
9 Thunderbirds versus 6 Bone Dragons: Victory, 5 Thunderbirds remain.
9 Thunderbirds versus 6 Behemoths: Victory, 3 Thunderbirds remain.

Victories: 16
Defeats: 6

RESULTS

1. Faerie Dragons (18)
2. Thunderbirds (16)
3. Behemoths (15)
4. Black Dragons (14)
5. Devils (12)
6. Angels (11)
7. Phoenixes (10)
8-9. Dragon Golems (9)
8-9. Bone Dragons (9)
10. Champions (8)
11. Hydras (6)
12. Titans (4)

1. Might (31)
2. Nature (28)
3. Death (21)
4. Chaos (20)
5. Life (19)
6. Order (13)

MANTISES

Binding ability halves the damage the binded creatures do and makes them immobile. Great ability against Champions.

6 Mantises versus 3 Black Dragons: Victory, 4 Mantises remain.
6 Mantises versus 6 Devils: Defeat (due to the icing effect), 3 Devils remain.
6 Mantises versus 6 Sea Monsters: Defeat, 2 Sea Monsters remain.
6 Mantises versus 6 Bone Dragons: Defeat, 1 Bone Dragon remains.
6 Mantises versus 9 Thunderbirds: Defeat, 3 Thunderbirds remain.
6 Mantises versus 6 Behemoths: Victory, 2 Mantises remain.
6 Mantises versus 6 Titans: Victory, 5 Mantises remain.
6 Mantises versus 6 Dragon Golems: Defeat, 2 Dragon Golems remain.
6 Mantises versus 12 Champions: Victory, 3 Mantises remain.
6 Mantises versus 6 Angels: Draw!
6 Mantises versus 6 Phoenixes: Victory, 4 Mantises remain.
6 Mantises versus 6 Faerie Dragons: Defeat, 5 Faerie Dragons remain.
6 Mantises versus 6 Hydras: Victory, 4 Mantises remain.

Victories: 7
Defeats: 6
Draws: 1

SEA MONSTERS

Devouring ability works on everything. Sorta like old Gorgons' stare. They swallow everything, especially Black Dragons.

6 Sea Monsters versus 6 Faerie Dragons: Defeat, 3 Faerie Dragons remain.
6 Sea Monsters versus 3 Black Dragons: Victory, 3 Sea Monsters remain.
6 Sea Monsters versus 6 Hydras: Defeat, 3 Hydras remain.
6 Sea Monsters versus 6 Phoenixes: Victory, 2 Sea Monsters remain.
6 Sea Monsters versus 6 Titans: Defeat, 2 Titans remain.
6 Sea Monsters versus 6 Devils: Victory (even though Monsters got iced), 1  Sea Monsters remain.
6 Sea Monsters versus 9 Thunderbirds: Victory, 2 Sea Monsters remain.
6 Sea Monsters versus 6 Bone Dragons: Defeat, 3 Bone Dragons remain.
6 Sea Monsters versus 6 Behemoths: Defeat, 1 Behemoth remain.
6 Sea Monsters versus 6 Mantises: Defeat, 2 Mantises remain.
6 Sea Monsters versus 6 Angels: Victory, 3 Sea Monsters remain.
6 Sea Monsters versus 12 Champions: Defeat, 7 Champions remain.
6 Sea Monsters versus 6 Dragon Golems: Victory, 4 Sea Monsters remain.

Victories: 7
Defeats: 7


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HappyPike
HappyPike


Known Hero
Pikeman
posted April 13, 2002 01:04 PM

Awesome study!!!  Thanks Thunder.

Quote:
I think it's weird that one of the best homm3 creatures becomes one of the worst.... TItans are ended up last!?


I am surprised too... Titan is always my fav unit. I am using Titans in the Emilia campaign now... I don't feel it's THAT useless. They are unstopable if you cast Mirth, (Mass)Precision, and Bloodlust on them.  
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HALT
HALT


Known Hero
Knight of Justice
posted April 13, 2002 01:08 PM


Looks like black dragonsí rules!
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Jenova
Jenova


Famous Hero
posted April 14, 2002 03:44 AM

In the case of the Titans and other shooters, who went first? If the Titans throw their arrows, they get a free shot without retaliation. Also with the Fairy dragon, how did you play the battle? Did you use spells or Melee?

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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted April 14, 2002 04:16 AM

Quote:
In the case of the Titans and other shooters, who went first? If the Titans throw their arrows, they get a free shot without retaliation. Also with the Fairy dragon, how did you play the battle? Did you use spells or Melee?


Thunder probably let the stacks do the best thing.

Most of the times the Titans would have gotten one or even two free shots because not many of the creatures can traverse the battlefield in the first round.

With this result Fairy Dragons obviously used spells. If they hadn't they would likely have ended up with 0 victories and 18 losses. The attack skill of the Fairy Dragon is that of a level 3 so they're not efficient at all in hand to hand combat.


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Slava14
Slava14


Promising
Famous Hero
I am 16 now....
posted April 14, 2002 05:24 AM
Edited By: Slava14 on 14 Apr 2002

yeah!!! I knew T-birds RULE

As said you should also add sea monster and mantis.

Mantis will definately destroy Champions, as they won't have any of their advantages (no Charging because he'll be binded, no 1st strike because Mantis also have it).

Also some questions:

Did you fight the battles, or it was Auto-Combat?
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Thunder
Thunder


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted April 14, 2002 08:22 AM

I fought battles myself. Titans had bad results, but shooters are now harder to block and Titans will benefit more than the most of the other 4th level creatures (except Hydras) when there is more than one stack of creatures on each side. As some have noticed, blocking creatures can be lured from blocking shooters by attacking them from the behind, so when they turn from the shooter stack (only if they are able to retaliate) shooters are free to shoot again.

I'm going to test the Sea Monster and Mantis, but I will post their rankings separated and am not going to add any wins or losses to those creatures that can be recruited from towns. Mantis can also be recruited, but their growth is only 1 per week (in creature portal). Needless to say that they wouldn't manage well with growth like that.
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dz
dz

Tavern Dweller
posted April 14, 2002 08:53 AM

wasup i did some testing my self too
basiclyi took diferent aproach, i selected number of creatures, whitch equals each other by hit points.

for example  1 DEVIL has 210hp
            1 BONE DRAGON has 275hp

So 275DEVILS = 210BONE DRAGONS

i took a map and did some tests because it takes too much time so far i did test with FAERIE DRAGONS vs ALL OTER 4TH level creatures
i lined up 13 F.DRAGONS each group equal of their oponents hit points and 13 other level 4 creatures all in groups of 220 (F.DRAGONS HP)i did around 30 battles between each pair
some by my self some in quick combat mode, also switching computer/human players so diferent creatures get 1st turn here is results:


210F.DRAGONS vs 220MANTIS PREATY CLOSE FIGHT IN GENERAL
F.DRAGONS 20WON / 5LOST WHERE F.DRAGONS WINS # LEFT ALIVE VARIES FROM 39 TO 175(LOTS MORALE), WHERE MANTIS WINS THERE IS FROM 8 TO 14 MANTIS LEFT

275F.DRAGONS vs 220PHOENIX NOT A COMPETITION F.DRAGONS WON ALL 18 BATTLES WHERE I HAD FROM 186 TO 267 F.DRAGONS LEFT

220F.DRAGONS vs 220DRAGON GOLEMS NOT A COMPET. F.DRAGONS WON IT ALL, AND WAS LEFT FROM 149 TO 157 F.DRAGONS ALIVE

210F.DRAGONS vs 220TITANS SAME THING F.DRAGONS WON IT ALL AND WAS LEFT FROM 82 TO 122 F.DRAGONS ALIVE

250F.DRAGONS vs 220HYDRAS SAME SH**T OR EVEN WORSE F.DRAGONS WON ALL BATTLES AND WAS LEFT FROM 226 TO 245 F.DRAGONS ALIVE

400F.DRAGONS vs 220BLACK DRAGONS WOW ALL BATTLES WON BY BLACK DRAGONS OF WHITCH FROM 177 TO 182 WAS STAYING ALIVE

150F.DRAGONS vs 220CHAMPIONS NO TALKS HERE ALL WOMN  BY F.DRAGONS. ALIVE LEFT FROM 131 TO 139

230F.DRAGONS vs 220ANGELS THIS ONE WAS 1 OF MORE INTRERESTIN 1NS TOO F.DRAGONS WON 16 AND LOST 9 WHEN F.DRAGONS WON THERE WAS FROM 48 TO 169 F.DRAGONS ALIVE
WHEN ANGELS WON THERE WAS FROM 24 TO 59 ANGELS LEFT ALIVE
A LOT DEPENDNG ON MORALE AND LUCK

275F.DRAGONS vs 220BONE DRAGONS. F.DRAGONS WINS IT ALL AGAIN SURVIVNG FROM 244 TO 252 ALL TIMES EXPT 1 TIME THERE WAS 207 F.DRAGONS LEFT

210F.DRAGONS vs 220DEVILS. F.DRAGONS WON 18 TIMES, DEVILS WON 3 REALY HARD TO EXPLAIN BUT SOMETIMES DEVILS SMACKED F.DRAGONS REALY GOOD WHEN DEVILS WON THERE WAS FROM 46 TO 66 DEVILS LEFT ALIVE, THEN F.DRAGONS WON THERE WAS FROM 115 TO 155 LEFT

240F.DRAGONS vs 220BEHEMOTHS ALL TIME F.DRAGONS WON WITH ALIVE # FROM199 TO 234

275F.DRAGONS vs 220SEA MONSTERS ALL IME F.DRAGONS WOM WHERE WAS FROM 234 TO 243 F.DRAGONS LEFT

170F.DRAGONS vs 220 THUNDERBIRDS ALL TIMES F.DRAGONS WON WHERE WASLEFT FROM 99 TO 153 F.DRAGONS

SO SUMARY :
WON ALL BATTLES =  9
WON MOST BATTLES = 3
LOST ALL BATTLES = 1

IT IS NOT BAD AT ALL BBUT BLACK DRAGON KICK A$$

ILL MAYBE DO OTHR CREATURES TOMOROW

LET ME KNOW WHAT OU THINK ABOUT THIS    
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Slava14
Slava14


Promising
Famous Hero
I am 16 now....
posted April 14, 2002 11:39 AM

@ Dz: Did you use summon Ice Demon with Devils?
Also, don't Cap so much..
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bjorn190
bjorn190


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
posted April 14, 2002 12:13 PM

Quote:

I think you should get a QP for this one!



Well, I think he deserves a penalty for this post.. =P  *tossing, but is right*

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dz
dz

Tavern Dweller
posted April 14, 2002 02:33 PM

sorry about caps i wrote it yesterday around 5am or so, no sleep so couldnt write nice. also about DEVILS yes ofcourse, that is the only way for devils to do something, and if succesful ice eomon and some morale freezes up fearie dragons at least twice devils wins if once they loose
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jondifool
jondifool


Promising
Adventuring Hero
extinct but alive!
posted April 14, 2002 05:19 PM

greetings

Good work thunder

One question ? Did you use wait-hit fly or move away, against hydras to take the no retaliation out off play when posible?

Champs would fare better as well against more targets because they can charge from one stack to another!!  

If the Faire was split in a 1 and 5 stacks wouldn't it have won the last 2 fights (except against blacks offcause!) simply casting confusion! (well properly not significant because alot of thing change if splitting up other stacks also so forget about that).

Doesn't walkers need more thing going? Or how is your impression!

Maybe Try test mantis some like 3 against 6! There special is awesome!! (true to the avalability off the summoning portal!)

with regards
jondifool
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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted April 14, 2002 08:14 PM

Well not only do you look at who is the most powerfullest but also how many you get how effective they are when you cast a certain spell on them
Lets see
Fairy Dragons have35-50 damage
220 HP
15 att
29 def
13 move
7 speed
flying spell caster with magic mirror.
The more Fairy Dragons you have the more powerful the spells will be (Same with Genies)actually doubled unless you have certain skills.
Can be a little tough using them in a siege mode until walls are broken or creatures are on top.

Phoenix 45-65 damage
275 hp
28 att
28 def
15 move
12 speed
Flying,rebirth,breath att,fire att.You can use a spell of rebirth anytime you wish for ressurecting your phoenixes.
The more phoenixes you have the more powerful you ressurction spell will be but can only use it once per battle.
Also if you lose all your phoenixes & you not cast the rebirth spell, it will cast it automatically on a set # of HP.

Dragon Golem 36-55 damage
220 HP
34 att
34 def
12 move
9 speed
First Strike,negate first strike,mechanical.
With the power they have then can do some damage & since you get first initiative with the right spells they can do some damage.

Titan 34-50 damage
210 HP
32 att
32 def
7 move
6 speed
16 shots
No melee penalty,chaos ward.
Titans are great shooters which are hard to build & hard to get a good # of them but can be tough with the right spells.
WIth the no melee penalty they are good ranged & hand to hand fighters.

Hydra 28-60 damage
250 HP
30 att
26 def
7 move
6 speed
Multiple att,no retalliation
Hydra always been my fav 7th & 4th lv creature.
Hydras can be deadly if you can use them to your advantage.
With thier damage rate if you can try to cast bless but can be tough getting the spell also Reflex works great on them too.

Black Dragon 55-110 damage
400 HP
40 att
40 def
15 move
7 speed
Immune to speels,breath att,flying.
Black Dragon have the best stats but damage rate can vary.
I think we all know about the black Dragon but can be plain for you can not make them more powerful.
They may have more HP & att & def are a little higher but with only a few coming in they can be hard to get to make them powerful enough orless you have time.

Champions 24-36 damage
150 HP
25 att
25 def
10 move
6 speed
charge & first Strike
Champions can be tough for the come in twice the # then usual 4th lv population.
Since they have the first strike & you get so many of them they can do good damage with the right spells.

Angel 40-65 damage
230 HP
30 att
34 def
15 move
10 speed
Flying,resurrection
Basically the angels are the same not one of the best units like in part 3 but still solid.
with a set # of hit points to resurrect once per battle they are pretty reliable.

Bone Dragon 45-65 damage
275 HP
30 att
30 def
13 move
5 speed
Terror,Skeletal,Flying,Undead
Bone Dragons sure have grew powerful then in 7th lv comparisons in previos heroes.
Only bad thing is they are slow but Terror can act as a no retaliation which puts fright to a creature.
Hard to use the range attack since they have the skeletal bonus.
Bone Dragons can be a key to a victory with a little help from other creatures & we know NEC has the right spells

Devil 34-50 damage
210 HP
33 att
33 def
50 move
7 speed.
Teleport,summon demons,life ward.
Devils are great to have also in your party.
since they can move anywhere they want on the screen they can put a good hurt on ranged attackers.
Too bad no more no retaliation they will be too tough then lol.
Also they can summon demon 1 per every devil you have.
If you have demonology I think it is you can summon more demons then the # of devils you have, & believe me Demons are tough

Behemoth 55-80 damage
240 HP
36 att
34 def
7 move
6 speed
Strength
Behemoths are probally one of the best protectors for ranged creatures & very powerful with thier bonus they can do great damage to one creature.
WIth the right spells no one will want to go near those behemoths lol.
Cant believe they show their buns

Thunder Birds 28-40 damage
170 HP
30 att
30 def
13 move
6 speed
Flying lightning attack
These creatures can be extremely powerful & not really studied their special lightning att.
What I seen it works almost all the time unless immunity & the more thunder birds you have the more powerful the thunder strike will be & probally the damage would be even greater with the right sec skills.
Also if you use the right spells they can be greatky a challenge, but most 4th lv creatures can wear them down good especially Dragons

Mantis 34-50 damage
210 HP
34 ATT
34 def
13 move
8 speed
Flying,First Strike,Binding.
These Fierce creatures can be one of the deadliest even to the black dragons.
SInce they have the first strike they have the first initiative & plus with the Binding they wont be able to move.
If you use the right spells they can be seriously deadly & they are solid units too.

Sea Monster 45-65 damage
275 HP
35 ATT
34 DEF
9 move
5 speed
Devouring
Theses creatures are awefully slow but do not underestimate them not only are they solid but they can devour even dragons.
They are tough to kill but usually only in the water unless customized.
Kill them quick if you cherish your units.
I only encountered them once so dont know the full details how they work but they can devour ANY unit so be very careful

Well those are only my opinions & my fav just for me is always the hydras for many reasons but of course it depends on what castle you are facing & the map which creatures are the best.
I also like Phoenixes too.




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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted April 16, 2002 04:20 AM

Oh did you know if you use a spell called Farenheighten ism your thunder birds gain plus 5 on thier power
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DonGio
DonGio


Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
posted April 16, 2002 05:06 AM

Hey, Thunder, maybe you need to learn how to fight:

You managed to lose with the black dragons the hydras, only to lose with the hydras against the black dragons!

OK, no pun intended, and it was a great post. Of course, it doesn't cover the full aspect of 4th level creatures (do the relations remain identical if you increase the numbers (this should have an impact, especially on those 'no retal' and 'first strike' creatures, and also, off course, how they fare against other level creatures), but that would take a lot more work.

But why are the victories/defeats sum not the sum of the battles listed? Have you played each battle twice (or more?), or is there another explanation?

Play well
DonGio
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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted April 16, 2002 05:17 AM

Yes that is going to take alot of work to see how effective 4th lv creatures can fare with others in dif lvs
I have some facts but will post them later like Medusas can be a real threat to 4th lv creatures especially ground creatures like behemoths.
I killed one behemoth with like 30 medusas & killed an extra one.
That just one example of many & only 2nd lv creature. Mayhaps we can post some I deas or make a thread about great strategies
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Thunder
Thunder


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted April 16, 2002 10:22 AM

Don, as I said there were luck factors (Damage Range and Morale). And Hydras were lucky against Black Dragons. I don't doubt my Heroes skills in the least. I waited slower creatures like Hydras out with faster creatures. Example: Behemoths got morale boost in the first round, Phoenixes move farer, Behemoths move closer. Behemoths didn't got morale boost in the second round, Phoenixes wait Behemoths out, Behemoths move closer, Phoenixes attack and Behemoths retaliate. On the third round Phoenixes got morale boost and attack Behemoths (Behemoths won't retaliate, as they already retaliated before their turn came), Behemoths attack Phoenixes retaliate and so on.

Every creature had 22 battles (except Mantises and Sea Monsters), meaning two battles against every creature (Black Dragons had two battles against Hydras).
Black Dragons attacked in every fight under their name and were attacked in other fights (not that it means much who is the attacker).





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Istanbul
Istanbul


Hired Hero
posted April 17, 2002 06:44 AM

Black Dragon

The combat will never be as easy as it is in the duels. Because of high stats, to avoid retal, we're likely to try taking down level 4s with magic direct damage & ranged attack.
We'll always experience that the specials of Black Dragon will kick in when its a hard battle.
Heroes 3, Ancients were able to knock down almost all level 7s in close combat but this wouldnt make them best level7...

Just look at stats, no more word necessary, Black Dragon is best by far.

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Columbus
Columbus


Hired Hero
posted April 17, 2002 07:29 AM

Great job

Very impressive and useful work

Still I would point out a few additional things to consider

1) For some reason you get 2 black dragons in the dragon lair when you build it. You start with one of pretty much everything else. Thinking back to TOH HoMM3 maps where you usually had your big fight in week 2 or 3 that's a pretty significant factor.

2) If you build a creature portal and set it to mantises you get no starting creatures and produce two per week.

Adding the 1st to 3rd units changes the dynamic considerably. Someone mentioned hyra's multi-hex attack. Black dragons and Phoenixes also have multi-hex attacks and Fairy Dragons cast multi-hex spells

Can't wait till multi-player

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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted April 17, 2002 09:01 PM

2) If you build a creature portal and set it to mantises you get no starting creatures and produce two per week.
Actually once you build the portal you dont have to put the marker on the mantisis, every single creature in the portal will all grow in their usual #'s
Try Wasports they can be tougher then you think


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