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Heroes Community > Turban Tribunal > Thread: addressing an ongoing issue
Thread: addressing an ongoing issue This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT»
artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted May 09, 2017 01:18 AM
Edited by artu at 01:31, 09 May 2017.

verriker said:
I personally think it is a bad idea and even unfair to go down the slippery slope of enforcing vulgarity and so called "family friendliness" unless it is clear cut in the rules and can be pinned down, bear in mind that the CoC and even Heroes Community were founded when puritanism and the backwards "think of the children" mentality was much more rife and normalized in the western world, however in 2017 I would say internet culture has for sure become more mature and moved on a bit from such Victorian nonsense lol

this cultural glitch really stemmed from zealots with nothing better to do who are fading away over time as our society slowly grows up out of the dark ages,
after all how stupid do we think children are, bear in mind it is the internet, does anyone think a reasonable family will care or will any reasonable person will be valid to persecute another merely for posting harmless text describing something to do with one's genitals, for sure a clear cut case like posting pornography is far too much but if I or other posters would talk or joke about genitals or sexual issues for whatever reason without harming anybody, the only rational thing is to allow to do that else it is very subjective and open to interpretation what actually deserves a punishment or not, prioritising one person's unreasonable values over another's lol

for sure it is Valreiy's forum and in that respect I do not question a rule but I am merely saying the concept of the rule is way past its sell by date lol

I really wouldn't call the early 2000's Victorian. I mean, I know you are not being literal and it's a metaphor but I think, in many aspects, the early 2000's were quite more liberal than today. Just like the 60's were more liberal than the 80's, in a way: The everyday life of some regular youngster was probably less formal in the 80's but the political trends that was popular and praised were more conservative. In the early 2000's, everybody was so optimistic about the upcoming internet age, "the end of history" with the Cold War recently over, (now everybody's mumbling about the Third World War), the mosaic of ideas and cultures without borders and so on but despite the expectations, all of this also created a new (actually not so new) and very populist conservatism as a reaction, because the change is huge and fast. In the long run, conservatives almost always end up defending what the progressives of 50 years ago defend, so it will somehow resolve. But I'm not so optimistic about the short-run. Authoritarian conservatives are the new trend everywhere and they have significant amount of masses supporting them. I wouldn't expect any "Renaissance" soon.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted May 09, 2017 01:54 AM

LizardWarrior said:
he didn't write a 2000 word essay about how he's gonna have oral sex with a chocolate statue.
Case in wich I would appoint him for a QP, at least if the description was as good as his best objects. It's the VW, for AronRa's sake.

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 09, 2017 02:10 AM

another great point. in was in the vw, ffs. which is spam central.

Quote:
you know... blind people probably have wayyy better orgasms than most people. their sense of touch has gotta be off the charts. it'd be like when a girl gets her clit pierced: she can just walk across the room and achieve orgasm.

*gets a sharp pencil to poke out own eyes*


that was the offending post that caused a penalty.

and this was cor's reaction: locking the thread, penalyzing me, and then posting this-

Quote:
It's like how many times do I need to remind you of the rules here, fred?



in the vw. spam central. it doesn't get any more spam than what i posted. i wish i had the care to go back and find all the other stuff i got penalyzed for. but there isn't a link to penalties. only qp's, of which 4 of them are no longer valid. because of 2 rage posts in the old random thoughts thread(in the vw), 1 of which was displayed above, and for me describing(humorously) what i would do to a chocolate statue. ALSO in the vw.

it's one thing to get penalties for insulting someone in an osm discussion. it's quite another for getting penalties in the vw(spam central) over what was meant to be amusing and harmless.

looking back at the old hc, where it was pretty much the wild west in all the forums, it's plain to see what's going on now.

and it's plain to see WHO is being targeted. over ASSHATTERY in the vw.

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 09, 2017 02:45 AM

i just checked the last available-to-view penalty i got for my two rage posts, from omega. i would say that the 2nd rage post penalty(my reaction to his initial penalty) was justified, but then i realize that i had EDITED the inital rage post, to be more c.o.c.-friendly(despite my overflowing rage). and when i was STILL penalyzed for it, that resulted in my rage exploding even further BECAUSE I HAD EDITED THAT POST TO MAKE IT MORE PALATABLE DESPITE MY OWN FURY.

back then, i was willing to meet the mods halfway. even in absolute, shaking rage. and i was STILL PENALYZED. even when i TRIED, while i was blind with RAGE, to stay within the c.o.c.

and some people here are telling me to subdue myself even further...

the question is, what difference would it make? they would just find another reason to penalyze me. they've proven that REPEATEDLY.

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Celfious
Celfious


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Mickey cult member
posted May 09, 2017 04:36 AM

stay 5 steps away from. profanity and provide yourself right.

if they penalize you for talking about rainbows and angry snowmen then you'll have a solid example.
____________

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted May 09, 2017 08:10 AM

fred79 said:
and if i WAS warned(see the paragraph below), it was for something even MORE insignificant than what i was actually penalyzed for. so, when it comes to penalties being given to me, why do you not just delete the post, or ask me to, or even GET ME TO EXPLAIN MYSELF, thus PREVENTING a penalty?

This is more or less what I suspected. Depending on whether one wishes to give the benefit of the doubt, that post can be interpreted as pushing one's luck OR as a casual post with a harmless intent behind it that is arguably no worse than previous ones despite not being exactly proper. Fred has occasionally been a bit of a troublemaker but he might not have realized that this was an actual breach just like not all of us considered it as one.

You can say that he(or some of us) should have seen it coming or you could have given him the benefit of the doubt and asked him to remove it and then see what his intentions are. I know that this is a taxing process akin to 'babysitting' that no mod is obligated to go through but in retrospect, it might have worked out better. Like I said, not all of us realized that this was a cause for penalty.
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Being human is a roller coaster ride of emotions during rainstorms and sunshine, sprinkled with moments when you can almost reach the stars.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted May 09, 2017 02:51 PM

fred79 said:
i realize that i had EDITED the inital rage post, to be more c.o.c.-friendly(despite my overflowing rage). and when i was STILL penalyzed for it, that resulted in my rage exploding even further BECAUSE I HAD EDITED THAT POST TO MAKE IT MORE PALATABLE DESPITE MY OWN FURY.


Fred, I remember perfectly this moment because it was hilarious that despite your edit, your post was STILL breaking the CoC.
If you don't believe me I can send you a screenshot by HCM (yeah I do take screenshots when I think a post might get deleted or smth...).

Come on man, no one is telling you to subdue, but you should realize that, even if some mods may have a bias against you, you kinda called for it, in fact you made it very easy for them if you're right in your assessment, break the CoC: penalty.


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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 09, 2017 10:20 PM

sure, send me the screenshot. but from what i remember, it wasn't penalty-worthy.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted May 09, 2017 10:35 PM

Sent.
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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 09, 2017 11:44 PM
Edited by fred79 at 23:45, 09 May 2017.

i'm going to post this here, because it needs to be public, instead of merely hcm(which it was initally, as a response):

"snow this/that with a big rubber dick" is much better than what i HAD posted previously(before i edited the op to fit the c.o.c.), which was "i want them to be fed feet-first into a vat of hydroflouric acid, or burned alive, in front of their loved ones", or something to that effect. and i changed that. and it made no difference. obviously.

the word "dick" has been used countless times, by various members. cor himself has posted that word before. and as you can see, he got a qp for that post. and UNDERSTANDABLY SO.

Quote:
Popular at stadiums and other places filled to the brim with the just the kind of human beings you love to be standing next to when your dick is hanging out


"snowing with a big rubber dick", is still in the same ballpark. especially considering that the word DICK isn't in the wordfilter.

and as i've said before, there are no 5-year-olds here at hc. besides that simple fact, ANY CHILDREN capable of getting online, can find FAR WORSE anywhere on the internet(INCLUDING HERE AT HC, FFS). WORDS that aren't IN the wordfilter shouldn't be able to be penalyzed regardless, ESPECIALLY since i petitioned to have them ADDED, and was IGNORED. just like the word "goddamn".

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted May 10, 2017 01:29 AM
Edited by Galaad at 01:49, 10 May 2017.

fred79 said:
"snow this/that with a big rubber dick" is much better than what i HAD posted previously


Dude, I'm pretty sure targeting a group of people and saying very genuinely you want them to be "****** with a big rubber dick", as funny as it sounds, is against the CoC...
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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 10, 2017 01:52 AM

and meanwhile, all the serious anti-ukrainian/muslim talk is fine? as long as we're discussing groups, and all. at least people getting snowed by a big rubber dick is humorous, and lacks the vehemence of say, being killed in front of their families.

but whatever. my point(s) has been made. if anyone refuses to see what i'm saying, then that is on them.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted May 10, 2017 03:03 AM
Edited by Galaad at 03:05, 10 May 2017.

Look man it's very simple, mods already said before these threads they were annoyed with the "not erotically subtle" type of comments, and it didn't start with you (if you remember, "a magical thing inside you!"). While in the absolute, these posts don't warrant penalties (I don't think so), you posting in this fashion so crudely straight after Cor asked the whole subforum not to do this can easily be seen as provocation, needless to say if you have bad past history with him it goes even less in your favor.
Personally I think you didn't realize that and were just clumsy and didn't mean any harm, and as such the sanction was too harsh even more that you didn't see it coming (and none of us to be fair, or almost, judging from the reactions) and this whole thread (and drama) could have been avoided, but sometimes you need to try and see things from the other side too. Mods said earlier they repeatedly asked you to not do some kind of things in PM, are they lying?
If not you can't complain of the sanction.
I understand your position, I understand the Mod Squad position. I think it is all a misunderstanding and I suggest to settle this and turn the page.

IMHO the better solution at this point would be to remove the clit penalty as a sign of good faith for Fred, who I am sure meant (and means) no harm, as he has proven more than once to be a great asset to this community -that is, when he doesn't rage rampage or uber drama queen (), but that's also why we like him.
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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 10, 2017 03:23 AM
Edited by fred79 at 03:40, 10 May 2017.

i'm very tired. this is wearing me out.

THE

ONLY

TIME

I

AM

WARNED

IS

WHEN

I

GET

A

PENALTY.

besides that,

THEY

PENALYZE

ME

WHEN

THEY

FEEL

LIKE

IT.

it doesn't get any clearer than that. that's the nut of the issue, all summed up. everything i've said before this, can be summed up into those two sentences.

======

edit: do you know the last time i was legit warned by mods? it was years ago, when cor deleted something i said in a thread, and he warned me about "bypassing the language filter". i had used the black slang version of the n-word; and i had done it humorously, as the entire post was mimicking an inner-city black youth. i don't THINK i got penalyzed for that, but regardless, cor had gotten on me like i had been TRYING to bypass the word filter. like that was actually my GOAL. INSTEAD of my just posting like a black inner-city youth, ironically.

even THEN, cor was wrong. but, THAT is the last instance where i can remember actually being WARNED(and the "offending content" deleted) without a penalty. years ago, galaad.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted May 10, 2017 05:42 AM
Edited by Elvin at 05:44, 10 May 2017.

If you ask me that case was more about the spirit than the letter of the coc. Nobody would bat an eye if you said Dick Tracy or used it in a more.. innocent context - just like basterd sword is not an offensive or otherwise naughty term. Maybe that is why Val did not find the wordfilter update so important, because the issue is not always about the word but more about the way it is being used. Also whether there are any kids left in heroes community is kind of a moot point, considering that we are guests here. It is within Val's rights to request that we follow certain guidelines just like it is our right to voice our suggestions or complaints. But in the end the terms of stay are up to him.
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Being human is a roller coaster ride of emotions during rainstorms and sunshine, sprinkled with moments when you can almost reach the stars.

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PandaTar
PandaTar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
posted May 10, 2017 06:36 AM

This. Is. Getting. Weary.

So, Fred, what do you really want?

Itís a bit long, but read carefully. I hope my efforts were not in vain.

I was re-reading the CoC to find something. Only I failed to find a statement pointing out that a Moderator must warn someone, who broke the rules, before applying a penalty. Is that stated somewhere? As it is, I still find Ö bad that someone needs being warned multiple times to get a point. Reading posts above, thereís too much ďI didnít knowĒ and ďI didnít meanĒ. I conclude thereís a lack of communication skills. Is that the problem? One often breaks the rules because communication is based on Ö rule-breaking? Whatís wrong? Whatís the recurring issue? People picking on you all the time? Every mod is ganging against you? Or people sneaking online at different moments to combine answers Ö what really was that? Yeah, I wrote that post before it was edited and deleted. Which comes to an important point.

Pay attention, because itís important.
You cannot measure all outcomes when it comes to Internet and other people. ďWhat does that mean, fool of a panda?Ē It means that, whatever you write here, cannot be unwritten. Given the glimpse of time, the small opening, the fastest of a blink, and someone have read it. Itís similar to when someone runs over a biker and the biker dies. Can the driver Ďunraní and the biker prompts back into life?

Thereís this quote of yours in this very thread:
fred79 said:
i just checked the last available-to-view penalty i got for my two rage posts, from omega. i would say that the 2nd rage post penalty(my reaction to his initial penalty) was justified, but then i realize that i had EDITED the inital rage post, to be more c.o.c.-friendly(despite my overflowing rage). and when i was STILL penalyzed for it, that resulted in my rage exploding even further BECAUSE I HAD EDITED THAT POST TO MAKE IT MORE PALATABLE DESPITE MY OWN FURY.
back then, i was willing to meet the mods halfway. even in absolute, shaking rage. and i was STILL PENALYZED. even when i TRIED, while i was blind with RAGE, to stay within the c.o.c.

Then, thereís this one from another thread, the one regarding words you wanted to filter or suggest filtering, it seems:
fred79 said:
sure, delete the issue. why not. that'll fix the problem. surely. just sweep it under the rug.
and then the next time somebody gets a penalty over a word, we can just forget that this thread ever existed.

You, yourself, understands the power of what Iím trying to point out here, although you contradict yourself because of convenience. Why? Iím not really asking this. Itís figure of speech. Iím stating, because it shows. You can go back and edit these posts, but they were already read, they already impacted and they got their message delivered, no matter what. Thus, quoted. You cannot quantify the impact your words have at given moment, and you cannot equally undo that same impact only by deleting. The permanence of a penalty given to you even after you edit something is completely understandable and Iíd vouch for it promptly. You said yourself actually, valid, because you cannot change its impact upon those who already read that. Can you really quantify, judge and measure the extent of your words? If they already offended someone, or did something that cannot be reverted, can you be sure of yourself that you can simply, using your own words: sweep under the rug? You know the answer.

This, leads to another issue.

Thereís no filter for context
It seems youíre too focused on what words, spellings should be banned or blocked. Context is much more important Ė aside crude language, curse and slangs that exist only for such purpose. But one can be completely obnoxious and break rules by speaking normal and simple words. How can you measure the impact of the words or a context? Can you measure Ďfarewellí? ĎItís over.í? ĎI donít believe you.í? These normal words can break someone apart. Can end lives even. You canít judge yourself that whatever you spoke here is harmless. You are always under constant judgement and appraisal.

What would happen if someone appeared here right now and said that they felt completely offended by your remarks and that they ought to have you punished sooner, even fiercer? And worst, post it here in this thread instead of going in a more civilized manner and taking the matter to the mods? Which is how it is stated in the CoC, by the way. So, suddenly their judgment that your words were offensive donít count? Why? Are you special? Or are they? Do we need things to be said to be true? Canít we operate on preventive strategy rather than remediated?

Itíll be up for a third party to find balance and judge as such, and Iím sure (even after many of the quotes and things you wrote that shows your side; because I really donít have the whole context; which shows how important it is), nobody here wants to or needs, really, to spend time, such as Iím wasting mine right now, with online Ďconspiraciesí.

Cool down, read all your posts again and try to picture yourself. Iíll be frank, and Iíll sound harsh, and if I really offend, I accept being penalized. My perception, mine, is of a deranged person, letting something like this escalate and accusing others for their own assumptions, trying to find meaning in breaking rules and cowering behind exceptions, as if one justifies the other. Even worst, letting your own assumptions invading other rights, other people, like me, to feel the forums as a trustworthy and cosy place, a place of minimal order. My impression here is getting stained. You are placing in check the balance I feel here and then, I feel annoyed by it. How do we balance that, now? I am biased now and then, somehow, my opinion lose its power? Thatís the answer? Because I feel this is something thatís crossing your mind right now. Youíll, somehow, conclude that I want you out of these forums. Is that the way around it? Iíll say youíre wrong, but itís up to you to assume so.

You can read back the other message I posted here in this thread, the last one in the first page, and I guarantee itíll remain there, I wonít delete it or edit it, that I had already expressed that I prefer going by the book. You will also notice that, in spite of my Ďharshí position, I wrote a P.S. regarding a genuine, although you might not believe me, but genuine I say it was, concern regarding your psychological profile by then, by stressing that opening other threads about you could stress your mind. Even if supportive, could also be taken in a context of provocation, aggravating your feelings, placing more wood in the fire. So, even there, you see the power of context, not tied to spelling of words, but the meaning behind them.

You see, as much as you want to tag words as improper to try not writing them, itís the context that gives them meaning. Thereís no point in writing down a thousand words if you donít mean them or use their meaning through other figures of speech. Youíll get penalized again. Learn how to communicate, pay attention to inflections, such as these you like to use by capitalizing words. These are inflections, tools of communication. They can offend. Or else, they can praise.
Something I missed here that we have in CH, which I thought it was the same case here, so I was mistaken. I'll quote my innate forum rule here:

Quote:
Moderating complaints
I have a question/complaint about the moderating on this forum!
Send a Private Message (PM) to a moderator or admin with your question or complaint. Do not use public threads to discuss the moderation of this forum. Such posts might get deleted, and repeated offences might lead to a warning or, at worst, a ban.


In memory, since I joined it back in 2003, before it had its own domain, I only saw 1 ban. Forums were more active back then, of course. The Ďoffenderí that time started breaking rules, one after the other. Sometimes moderators missed context, then the guy kept saying why someone didnít got penalized here, or there. But you see, whichever happened, made so that the others who he used to point the finger have never repeated an offense, even a few were penalized. Meanwhile, he used every single example he could, from different sources, to keep breaking rules. This gave him a deliberation. A deliberation of testing rules. Isnít that? So, penalties came. Rage because of them. Not soon after, the ban. Was that necessary? Was that really something that needed to prove anything? Do we require you to prove anything here? Do I, a third user, need to write some bad joke with dubious interpretation (because you need to know how to communicate in a worldwide community and be wary of many different tones people can take from you) and see how far I go? Why canít my jokes or my statements be clear of these Ďsuspiciousí words? And if they donít, why do I keep doing them? Is there something to be revealed? Do I, again, need to prove anything to someone here? Am I special? What is it? What do I have to gain with that? Does that prove I care about what people think about me?

What do anyone here have to gain with you being banned or being penalized? Why do all of us have to get stressed and involved in your misjudgement of wording or recklessness? Again, because you created this thread, globally, involving all of us, thus affects us. It didnít have to come all this way. It didnít have to make me lose personal time, trying to point out, how far you reached and how annoyed I am with it. And itís not about whatever wording you chose. I already said that in the previous post: I donít mind that language. But the fact that, indirectly, you tried to influence and involve others and me into this debacle, it indirectly tried to bias my standing point in your favour as well, as much as you accuse other people from being biased against you. It didnít go that way.

Do you see what you are doing? Do you understand it? Do you think itís worth meddling with other people, people who live very different lives and have very different perspectives, meddling with their right to have a forum strict to its own rules? Do you think everyone thinks itís normal having to be warned for improper content? Do you think everyone thinks itís alright to do what we think itís right in spite of othersí sake? Or without even the word of the one who brought this forum together and wrote those same rules you are breaking? Really, I do believe only you think you are being hunted down here.

Whatever disagreement you have with mods, take to the mods, solve it with them or with Valerity, when he appears. His absence, as you may notice, is quite constant. Which shows that he has a life outside this place. Other mods also have their personal lives.

I also know that you think yourself was/is ignored, as well as you ignored rules, again. So, 2 other topics generated this thread itself, and you can find it in CoC:

Philosophy of Anger
Explains precisely how this thread escalated. And how other threads, even without improper language, usually escalate to some nasty levels, in my perception. I can assure you that I would be a bit more strict in that regard, but Iím not a mod. I donít like discussing some issues in this forum. I think itís too permissive (yeah, can you imagine that? CH is much more strict. We didnít have much problems with rule breaking there since almost ever). Sometimes there are Ö things people say here in some political, religion and ethnical threads that I downright donít like, even feel prejudiced. I donít know if people mean in the way they write. When we only write, we miss important context, body language other tools for communication. Thatís why I ignore and avoid going down some lanes, besides the impression I have that some people cannot agree with disagreeing either. Others may and can act differently. And some others may perceive things differently as well.

I do believe the mods try to find a balanced picture upon things around here, even if you believe you are being chased or whatever. Still, that simply makes sense. When I was in the school, teachers used to be on the watch upon rule-breakers and slack their attention upon the rest. Knowing so and persisting Ö why? Is there a motive? Are you giving someone motive to accuse them of chasing you? Is that what you want to prove here? Is that the perception you want to pass along? Become, as some already call you, a Ďdrama queení?

What do others think of me and how can I change it?
Now this ... do you think you care about what people think about you? If you think and want to say you don't, think again. The moment you involved all of us into this, because you did and the least you should do is assume it properly, you care. Somehow, it became important to point this out and see how far it went. So, here we are. Talking about rules, how rule breaking can escalate, how one can start feeling being hunted down by all mods (you are aware of that, right? Everyone else is wrong?), and everyone that says otherwise is biased and against you? Do you know how that sounds like?

Again, read all your posts, try finding your centre, be calm, try to understand how far your actions can go, that they can affect other people, offend them in means you didnít foresaw or intended, and that it doesnít make you a bad person, although, when recognized, must be shown (or penalized or pointed out) somehow. We are prone to mistakes. You were not banned. But you are not without guilty either. You hide your actions behind an incessant wave of excuses to give you moral to keep doing things you donít need to do. We donít need to read a cheeky remark regarding a chocolate fetish. You can best this sort of jokes or lines. You donít need to step that way to be funny. Minion said himself that he finds you pretty funny, even after you jumped on his neck for stating his opinion. Sees how you are reacting already? Is this worth it? Does that prove anything? If you leave now the boards, or anything, we, from far, far away, are we going to be affected? Do you want us to be affected? Do you want to invade our lives in that way to have you way around a point? Have you asked our permission to affect us? Is, indeed, everyone against you?
Do you understand? Thereís not point in escalating this matter. Thereís no point involving a whole community in your business. You are misjudging heavily people here, specially the mods. You are not considering our opinions and accusing us of taking sides and trying to take you down. You are overestimating your importance in our daily activities, and thus forcing us to react to this Ö matter. If no one can disagree with you, why even open a thread about it?
Really, breathe, take down some time to think and be at ease with the possibility that you need to change, and this is not even something that requires much effort at all. As much painful as some things may feel, you can choose changing in spite of everything else. Mods have a tough job, to judge things in a neutral position, as far as neutrality and their conception around it goes. Be as it may, they are not also omnipresent and perfect. And really, they all have issues back at their real lives, they have jobs, families, real German shepherds digging their gardens. People here are not willing to take the little time they have to commute with others, to be mean. Thatís a scenario you built here, a scenario it looks like you want to be true for a reason or a result that has no sense, purpose and wonít bring any joy to anyone. You are hurting people here and yourself. Mods offered and accepted, and were voted, to take an unpaid responsibility to try having things civil at certain point, trying to commute peacefully together with a plethora of different minds.

You donít need to prove anything here. People have already their opinion on this matter, and it might get worse as time goes by actually. Itís not worth. Itís not your due to decide changing rules accepted by third parties, other people, even if you consider it obvious that some words are harmless. If you think the squad is against you, wait for Valerity and expose your situation. Wait for him and behave meanwhile. If he takes so long to reply itís because he is busy with his own issues. Which is why he has mods to help him. Mods were chose by his own judgements, to abide the rules he chose here. If you think the mods are against you or biased, you are, indirectly, stating that his choices are biased as well. Then, no one better to talk. Just donít expect him being as lenient with all this as the other mods or members around here. Donít expect him to open a thread and ask you to return, and woof around. Still, he can do the unexpected, canít he?

Again, breathe, rest your mind and focus on better things, turn the page, evolve and move on. There was no need for all of this. Even less for a 34 yo guy such as myself, trying to give a council, as harsh as it sounds, to a stranger. But alas, if I didnít care, I wouldnít have posted this parchment of a text. So try to read this with good eyes and think on improvements. You understand? I know youíll be mad, probably will want to shout at me. If you need to express a more severe reply, you may confide it through PM and I promise itíll stay there.

Or you may try to see the good intent I had here, and move along. I am sure that, even if you donít believe, and Maurice and Corribus can say Iím wrong, but I am sure that if everyone here accepts they might have committed mistakes and turn the page, you standing on line and they reconsidering something they might have missed, I cannot vouch or say what, well, Iím sure nobody here wants to have a place where they cringe when they have to visit. So, itís up to everyone to strive for the better tomorrow.

____________

Heroes-based proposal thread Ė On hold, while I'm writing my book. =)

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 10, 2017 12:49 PM

@ panda: well, that was a lot to read. what i gleaned from it, is that you're annoyed with me, and somehow i forced you to read anything in this thread, or about this situation. which is preposterous. nobody is putting a gun to your head and forcing you into this. i've kept this issue to this thread, and the "wordfilter upgrade" thread(minimally). i'm not posting a thousand threads on it and spamming the forums like frostysh was. so you have no reason at all to be here.

i understand you have well intentions, of course. but you don't know what you're talking about. and, you're not the only person to question my sanity(or whatever) in this. you're not even the first person to question my sanity over any discussion i've ever had here. people don't understand me and a lot of things i discuss(or my perspective), simply because they're not paying attention to the same things i am. not that you've been around long enough to even KNOW what i'm talking about, since this goes back pretty far(although, the problem has grown to overly-stressing proportions recently). i tend to clash with people when they misinterpret either my intent or my point, let's just say that.

the problem HERE, is that people who have power here are doing that very thing. and that's what i'm speaking up about. it's not like i can just ignore it; i'm being targeted. that you don't see that, is because you either A: weren't here before when it happened; and/or B: weren't paying attention when any of it did or lack the behind-the-scenes knowledge to assimilate what is/has happened.

i don't blame you, understand. to someone who doesn't know what's going on, and is only taking this at face value without any prior knowledge or attention paid to the subject; it WOULD appear that maybe i'm off my rocker and am blowing up over nothing. crying like a baby, as it were.

but i'm not. i'm very adamant about this, because i know what's going on. i wouldn't BE so goddamn angry about this stuff, if i didn't.

that said, you HAVE to have seen things going on elsewhere, that break the c.o.c.  now, some questions i pose to you, to get you to understand(should you have no prior knowledge of what i'm talking about), is why isn't any of THAT being targeted? and why is it, up until NOW, that what i have posted for quite a long time(if you have been paying attention at all to what i've posted since you've joined) is SUDDENLY NOT OK?

i'll tell you why. because cor is usually pretty inactive on this forum. the only reason he'd be suddenly active again and TARGETING me(like he has before, but admittedly we've had ups and downs relationship-wise), is because somebody(or somebodies) has been whispering sweet nothings in his ear. now, since i know(KNOW, not THINK) that 2 other moderators(possibly 3; as i'm not sure about omega), have problems with me, and one user IN PARTICULAR has been working with the mods to TARGET me(remember, he and a mod stopped being friendly with me at the same time, over the exact same thing, under the exact same circumstances, mostly occurring through hcm), it is safe to assume that cor isn't in this alone. kiryu has an issue with me(which can be seen if anyone was paying attention to our back-and-forth, though admittedly a good bit of it was through hcm), as well as maurice(mostly behind the scenes, since his postings are more moderator-oriented). and there's that one member, who is absolutely overjoyed over what is happening. he's proven that, again and again, despite the fact that he claimed we were going to continue being friends through out last hcm's. and other people have picked up on his vehemence. because it is pretty STRONG.

so, to recap: 3 moderators(possibly 4, but i'm unsure), and one member specifically is targeting me.

and, you can see what's happening because of it. maurice already stated that there is something wrong with me, mentally. and now you. i think someone else mentioned it, as well(artu? he's mentioned that before, anyway. lol). and because i'm so adamant about making my point regardless of the fact that so many aren't/haven't been paying attention to what's been going on(or couldn't because of some content being in hcm's), i can see more people jumping on that bandwagon.

so, pretty much, i'm my own worse enemy in this situation; since this seems to be spiralling ever downward. no matter what i do, no matter how much i try to make my point, i only play into those 4 people's hands. so, snow it. i'm going to try not to fight anymore, and just leave. it's snowing WRONG, but whatever. i can't change the president, congress, agencies, the u.s.a., or anything else that is wrong, either. all i can do is just retreat further into myself, and try to forget as much as possible so that i'm not completely consumed by my hatred.

which is a little late, to be honest.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted May 10, 2017 01:06 PM
Edited by Maurice at 13:09, 10 May 2017.

fred79 said:
... and a mod stopped being friendly with me at the same time, over the exact same thing, under the exact same circumstances, mostly occurring through hcm)...


I know I wrote that I wasn't going to reply to you anymore, but I just can't stand the slandering you've perpetuated in this specific issue, so I am going to address it.

On january 15th, you made your post targetting the people from that other game you were playing. Two days later, I sent you a PM, a calm and open approach (I even used a few " " in them to lighten up the mood), no hard words, no accusations. I extended my hand to you with it, hoping to make you calm down and see reason.

In your reply, you basically gave me the middle finger and that HCM from you can pretty much be summed up as you telling me to go fornicate with myself. You reaffirmed that statement in the follow-up HCM we exchanged. Not only did you completely not take the hand I extended to you in good will, you actually felt the need to sink your teeth into it. Yeah, that was when you lost me. I'm still waiting for an apology, but I doubt it will ever come as I doubt you even realised just how you came across.

I have no idea what transpired between you and Stevie, but if you reacted to him in a similar fashion, I can fully well understand he didn't quite appreciate that, either.
____________
The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 10, 2017 01:36 PM
Edited by fred79 at 13:52, 10 May 2017.

maurice, you had already made up your mind about the issue, before you even decided to hcm me. don't even try to deny that.

as far as my responses went, you took that for a middle finger, pointed at you? when i was only trying to get across my pov on the situation? you OBVIOUSLY misinterpreted my hostility over the situation, into hostility towards you. which there WASN'T ANY. not even in my final hcm to you in the matter. all i felt was disappointment, regarding our back-and-forth. i had THOUGHT you knew me(and the situation then) better than you did(and even when i shared something deep about myself to help you to understand where i was coming from, even when i OPENED UP to you, you pushed that aside like that meant nothing to you, and kept going with what you had ALREADY DECIDED before you hcm'd me). but you didn't, and you have been trying to use your misinterpretation against me ever since.

YOU turned your misinterpretation(and your lack of listening skills) into what you think it was: hostility between us. because you didn't even BOTHER to listen to me. you just kept repeating yourself. the ONLY reason i thought of you as an enemy after that, was because i was WATCHING YOU trying to use your mod powers(in a subtle way, of course) AGAINST me.

Maurice said:
I have no idea what transpired between you and Stevie, but if you reacted to him in a similar fashion, I can fully well understand he didn't quite appreciate that, either.


what transpired between him and i was different, since his tact was pretty awful, to be honest. i ended up becoming quite angry with him because of what he said, and i ended our friendship, but he asked that we both forget what happened, bury that hatchet, and continue being friends. and i agreed, only to be betrayed by him almost immediately; and continually antagonized and snowed with, since then. and he has been using mods to help. if he didn't contact you to try and bend your ear, then he contacted others, make no mistake.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted May 10, 2017 01:51 PM

Can't you guys just ******* shake hands, forget about the issue and get back to normal?
Fred I'm pretty sure as long as you don't break the CoC you won't get penalized, and if that happens you will obviously get some support from the community like you did here EVEN THOUGH you're acting like a cry-baby. You know that I appreciate you a lot and I am very sad you want to leave, but imo you've turned this into a bigger case than it really is. Moderators are not forced to be your friends, and I am not convinced you are trying to see the issue from another perspective than yours. Just give it a try, come back and post like you do 99% of the time, I could bet things will go just fine.

Ps. If you disagree with the interpretation of the CoC from the Mod Squad, you will get a better chance to get your voice heard by posting a constructive post about it and how you would redefine the CoC than opening threads or posting comments that you (should?) know in advance  are on a dangerous zone according to the established rules.

Again, I hope you can take on yourself for this one and give another shot to a community with which there is a mutual appreciation for the most part.
____________

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