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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: New Heroes IV Era! Making new resources!
Thread: New Heroes IV Era! Making new resources! This thread is 9 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 · NEXT»
Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted September 16, 2017 03:16 PM
Edited by Baronus at 15:22, 16 Sep 2017.

Baronus

Now we have New Heroes IV Era! Making new resources is possible. So Im opening new thread.
Here are my first proposals from this topic:
H4RH

I have idea to new units.
1. Elven swordsman.
We need only map seqences. If you want try to extract and minimalize battle sequence to fit to map. And we have new unit!
2. Red monster hidden in game. The same. Use walking seqence to map.
And we can replace two old units by new. I want to use it in my mod.
Two frames is enough. 1 Legs togheder 2 Legs separate. Its so smal that we need only small simulation.
8 sides and attack animation it need 32 pictures. HIV needs I think about 700!!! frames and dont look so nice like HIV because perspective. So we dont need 700! frames. We must think how to minimalize this work.
Shadow is still problem but Adding shadow to frame Its enough.

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radmutant69
radmutant69


Adventuring Hero
posted September 16, 2017 05:57 PM
Edited by radmutant69 at 18:01, 16 Sep 2017.

radmutant69 said:
I just started to make the Elven guy's sequences. I don't know yet how much time it needs but I hope I'll make it in some hours. Or not.


...and I started it again three times from scratch because I cannot properly resize/scale the images/layers. The result is an idiotic shapeshifter on the map what randomly changes it's size in every single moment when it's moving.

It's not as easy as I thought at first..

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted September 16, 2017 06:31 PM

So maybe little stop:-) I dont want to exploit you :-)
1 idea using elf archer def.
Dont do a lot frames. Find 2 frames def and try.
I dont know your technology?
You made layer by H4RH tool and then copy paste single image to def? Whay theres no shadow?

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trashid
trashid


Famous Hero
posted September 16, 2017 10:01 PM

radmutant69 said:

...and I started it again three times from scratch because I cannot properly resize/scale the images/layers. The result is an idiotic shapeshifter on the map what randomly changes it's size in every single moment when it's moving.

It's not as easy as I thought at first..


Try to use numerical resizing rather than resizing by hand. I don't know if there are action scripts in Gimp, but in Photoshop it could be made as automatic procedure for all the images at once.

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radmutant69
radmutant69


Adventuring Hero
posted September 16, 2017 10:42 PM
Edited by radmutant69 at 22:48, 16 Sep 2017.

I tried something like that but it hasn't solved the problem. It caused by the damn sword of the elf what prevents me from calculating the proper sizes.

I think I'll have to carefully resizing it manually while I constantly compare the size of the Elf itself in the layers. Or not

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trashid
trashid


Famous Hero
posted September 17, 2017 11:06 AM

I wouldn't advise that. What I am talking about is using percent values. If you are using GIMP and start resizing, a new window should pop up. Change the "px" into "percent" and type always the same values to both width and height. Use the same number to all the frames of the creature.
____________

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radmutant69
radmutant69


Adventuring Hero
posted September 17, 2017 11:15 AM

I'm such an idiot. Like a shapeshifter. You are right...

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trashid
trashid


Famous Hero
posted September 17, 2017 12:01 PM
Edited by trashid at 12:02, 17 Sep 2017.

Don't worry. If you have any other problems feel free to ask
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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted September 18, 2017 11:11 PM

Well at some point I'd love to replace the Mega Dragon with a recolored Sea Serpent (skills changed as well).
But for now I'll most likely start out by adding new objects.
This is a wishlist posted at CH, some time ago, when requesting mirrored objects, listed by priority:

1st creature dwellings (except those with South-facing entry like fae tree and squire's guild - see no reason to mirror those)
2nd Quest huts
3rd All one-way portal entrances and exits
4th All two-way portal entrances and exits
5th Miscellanious (Magi Windows, Tavern, Blacksmith, Sanctuary, Hexis' Garrison)
6th treasure buildings/creature banks
7th power up's (EXCEPT moral/luck boosters, alters and stat gems)
8th ship wrecks, derelict ship, gargoyle columns editdemonic trees)

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 19, 2017 03:28 PM

Something you must take into account is that crops don't work properly in .ora files.

The file still contains the elements that stay "outside the frame" and this destroys conversion for images that have outside-frame elemtns.

(for example, a layer displayed on a 52x52 frame can actually contain a 520x520 object in gimp, most will remain outsideview, but is still saved on the data)

SO, all layers should be "cropped" to only retaimn what is seen in the frame.

Otherwise you run into problems later.

Quote:
2. Red monster hidden in game. The same. Use walking seqence to map.


It's already done as a hero creature in my mod. But map version is giant.

The next map editor will include a pre-made one to place...
(and red monster actually only has attack frame, but I used it for all anims)


____________
CLICK on the image to discover H4 Greatest Mod!

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted September 19, 2017 07:54 PM

Red monster have one seq not clean because with old man and cant be used. Practically it needs paiting all unit. So we can made simply another unit than it.
My next ideas:
1. Modding exp. powerup looking as simply enlarge glass to have something beauty,
2. Luck booster stone statue looks weak too.

We must see for all non atractive objects to mod it.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 19, 2017 08:29 PM

Actually, I have a good idea about how to make some necessary new resources... and it is quite easy too...

We need sprites for replacing creatures, right?

H4 with both expansions includes 10 extra heroes that do not appear normally in game - 5 per every expansion. Also, two easter egg heroes (the Metal Guy and the Old Man).

In my mod some of these are used as normal heroes, so others become the "unused" ones (Blue wizard, male barbarian, knights, being some)

Plus, many of these heroes have different ranged and melee stances in combat, giving them double the sprites.

My idea is to use unused heroes as creatures.
Equilibris tested it first with their "red lich".

But there is a catch to edit: heroes only appear as a distinctinctive "mount" on the map. Creatures don't.


The metal guy has no mount (also some would say he "doesn't fit", although this doesn't show as much in H4 as it does in H3), so we will leave it out. If one wanted to use him as a creature, my sprite on that is ready.

We have the full combat sprites. With these, we can resize and make appropiate adventure sprites to use heroes as creatures.

So, rezising the combat sprites of heroes, they would look something like this on the map...



Then, with not so much effort, we can have up to 2 (male and female) x 2 (might and magic classes) x 6 (number of factions) = 24 possible extra creatures, and that's not even counting the melee vs ranged versions (for all might classes both male and female, it's +12) + extra heroes (11, some of them x2 because of archer and melee versions - although now I only remember the Spazz Maticus ones). So, with the appropiate adventure displays, it is up to 36 new creatures by resizing combat to walking frames on adventure.
____________
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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted September 19, 2017 09:10 PM

Yes. Metal guy is completly unusfull needs so big correction that its painting all new in fact.
Rather we should to use additional heroes as heroes...
1. Idea. Using battle heroes as units by adding map animation. But its a lot of people. So we dont need 32 new human units.
2. Black champion and goblin knight is in fact citadel hero converted to unit because game is unfinished. We can use it for hero and add 2 new units dont lose resources. It gives 33 heroes. Evil sorceress its citadel hero too. We can add horse to make map movement. Its 34 heroes. Good number will be 44 because duplication. We can simply add a lot of hero animations.
3. Some adventure objects can be used as units.
- eye generator has interesting animation. Can be a monster.
4. Tree of knowledge can be a nice ent HIV style!

5! NEW GREAT IDEA! We have 11 class of heroes. But All class is fited to faction. How about give 6x archers one to each faction? Archer elf, archer knight etc. The same knight. Elf knight, barbarian knight. In this way we can use all animations. And have different heroes. Only opposite factions cant recruit own heroes. So excluding it.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 19, 2017 11:37 PM

Of course we don't need that many humanoid units but it is up to the modders which to use and which not. Some may want to use the blue Order magician as a unit and others the Preserve archers... so converting any of them to adventure map size to replace mounted anim is probably a safe bet and much easier than making a new units from scratch.

Also, as much as I would like an ent, the Tree of Knowledge has only 1 facing and doesn't move. Even mirroring is insufficient. As you may have noticed, making H4 units is much harder than making H3 ones (h3 can be made from a simple gif and mirroring... they only have front and back walking, and standing is static, while H4 has at least 4 and up to 8 facings, each of them with their own animations). However, I think we can potentially extract and convert creatures from other isometric games such as Diablo II and Baldur's Gate II
____________
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trashid
trashid


Famous Hero
posted September 20, 2017 01:38 AM

Taking monsters from other resources would be possible, although H4 uses a lot of motion blur in animation - something nonpresent in the other games. If the animations are meant to be consistent, it would be good to learn how to apply this motion blur to creatures from other games, if it is possible in any way. Also, I think you NimoStar have thought of this too, it would be nice if some heroes 3 modders could lend their models to be used in heroes 4.
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 20, 2017 02:39 AM

Yes, I see you saw my posts and ascertained my intention. H3 modders many times do 3D creatures and heroes, fully animated (At least the creatures, since H3 heroes have only mounted walking and spellcasting animation), which would then only require changing the rendering settings (perspective and potentially lighting) to convert to H4 creature graphics.
______

Blurring animations is something which cannot be automated reliably today, at least from 2D frames, since it requires two points of data that are not present in them (at least in machine-readable form): Speed and direction. Each frame of an animation is a "still", and motion blur depended originally on the direction and speed of the movement of a rigged part on the 3D model.

That being said, blurring can be done manually frame by frame by things such as the photoshop finger (smudge tool), but would be a painstaking process.
The blurring was there in the first place because animation speed was slow (before expansions, max was +3) and the developers didn't include many frames, so it made things look more "dynamic". If the animations in the other games have more frames, the blur will be, I think, unnecessary. Consistency is a good thing, but probably the cost in human hours in correcting hundreds of frames, across tens of facings, is excessive for a bad effect that will be badly reproduced.

On the other hand, with 3D rendered creatures, "Blurring" can surely be automated with the right program and rendering settings, much as the original H4 developers did.
____________
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trashid
trashid


Famous Hero
posted September 20, 2017 03:39 AM

Yes, what you are saying is true, blur might be the substitute to the increased number of frames, but on its own it adds much to the unique, dynamic style of the Heroes 4. Drawing the blur by hand would be indeed a chore, very hard to recreate with many visual errors possible. Unless there would be a program that could compare frames and add blur based on their differences, but I doubt it.
Rendering 3d models seems to be the best option possible. But for now, as you have said, the unused hero models from the expansions could be used as creatures. The blonde archer elf hero fits well to the heroes 3 - like sharpshooter role in game, as I have tested it. For the mods changing whole factions, like yours, creature recolors and shrinking in size are an option.

Also I have tried using spell effects as creature graphics and wisps can be created from the orb-like mana bolt, if adventure map graphics and a portrait are to be made. They would use the imp's mana sucking effect as attack image. I would show a screen, but something made my heroes4.h4r files corrupt, even in a backup.
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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted September 20, 2017 08:15 AM

I think that making HIV units from models other games it so long time that fastest way is paint new one especially if someone can use 3d modeling program. Ripping is fast in HIII if you rip sprite to sprite but if you must capturing model frame by frame you must have special program to this game models. And ripped units are not very attractive. Hard to find correctly perspective if its sprite. And style of graphic animation must be the same. Hard work poor effect. I prefer units made specially for HIV even if are very amateur... HIV sprites are very big. 8 sides means 8X more work and plus map anims its about 12X more than HIII. All of this 500? 1000? pictures you must manually paste to defs! So now I sugest simply sequences 2 frames. 700 frames units at this moment its impossible work. In future maybe if we get special converter from 3d studio to h4d it will be faster.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 20, 2017 01:32 PM

I meant other games that also use sprites, not 3D models, although that is possible too. But I mean, Baldur's gate for example already uses sprites that are near identical in function to H4 ones, as does Starcraft for instance (mainly with organic units, because most mechanical ones don't have much animation - But the Zerg could be usable creatures, specially recolored and now with the HD version). Those "special programs" are already available, we don't speak of screenshotting every frame, but extracting from game files.
All disometric games use exactly the same perspective, it's something of an industry standard. So from Starcraft to H4 to Red Alert 2 to Diablo II, and much much more, all units are perspective-compatible - and in fact identical (if not always in style).

Sprites only have to be "converted", and though we only have image-to image method now (for either task),

If advances in namerutan's tools are to be made, we might be able to convert entire creatures with a few clicks.
"Combat actor" files are ones he had planned, the button is present but grayed out.

I fear, Baronus, your 2-frame proposal would greatly diminish the immersion of the game - unless ALL creatures would be replaced with such lackluster standards, it would break the suspension of disbelief to see a 2-frame creature vs the full-framed creatures in the same battle.

***

I have also seen this ability to use some spell effects, even projectiles, as "creatures", but most are very small and unimpressive - is it worth it to take out one of the present fully-featured creatures to include one of these? it's dubious except as an experiment...

My other idea was to create creatures from in-between animations such as the efreeti appearing as a column of flames when he moves. This column of flames could be made as a whole creature replacing the Efreet or other. Also the mini-bat the vampire turns into to fly. But I don't know if many more such transformations are available.
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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted September 20, 2017 01:53 PM

I think that spend mamy time to copy paste about 700 frames from another game and before extracting it is bad business. In result we have only the same unit in another game. After big work. How many units in this way can be added.
In present day real is building 2 frames animations but in this case is a lot of work too. I think it will be hard to build unit from 70 frames... You need more I think. 20 map and 80 battle. Maybe mirroring left and right side help something. But 100 pictures must be by hand paste to def.

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