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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Shadow of Death - New Beginning, looking for build advices.
Thread: Shadow of Death - New Beginning, looking for build advices.
DecayWolf
DecayWolf

Tavern Dweller
posted November 05, 2018 10:07 PM

Shadow of Death - New Beginning, looking for build advices.

So, playing H3 campaign for the first time.

Gem starts with First aid and Wisdom.
Since I'm new and all that, I though the game would be minimally balanced.
I tried the following set up

Gem: First aid, Wisdom, Water Magic, Archery, Luck, Armorer, Logistics, Tactics.
Clancy: Resistance, Pathfinder, Logistics, Artillery, Earth Magic, Offense, Luck, Archery.

While Water has some useful buffs, it's a terrible school for a mage hero, which can easily acquire 20+ Spell Power, since these points will become wasted. I mean just compare the Spell Power scale from all other magic schools, for either single or AEO damage, it's so out classed. Overall I think Water is a solid pick for a ranger, since it doesn't require many points into Spell Power and Knowledge.

Clancy's artillery was utterly wasted, since I depend entirely on a castle which has a ballista... Nice game design... Not to mention it has a kinda crap damage...
I mean, I think Artillery is a good pick for certain factions, but for Clancy and this campaign is a waste skill slot.

Was on map 3, but decided to restart to try a new build.
Currently on map 2.

New Builds:
Gem: Wisdom, Fist Aid, Sorcery, Armorer, Earth Magic and Luck.

I choose Earth because it's one of the schools with the highest chance of appearing on the level up. It also has the highest 1 target damage and also a nice AEO damage. Mass slow is also broken OP. Further more Stone Skin + Shield have synergy with Armorer. My goal is to keep the enemies away and when they engage they'll take forever to kill things, while I murder them with implosion/meteor shower, simple and yet effective.

Still, I got 2 open slots, here is the reason of this thread, help me to decide.
Thinking about.

1 - Logistics.
2 - Archery or Estates.
The good about archery: Extra damage and good synergy with Implosion/Meteor Shower.
The bad: Only 1 ranged unit. Mage hero, so very low attack parameter (level 15 had only 1!).
Estate at least could be helpful.

I know Offense is better than archery for this faction, but the chances of getting Offense with a Druid is simply unrealistic to expect.

Clancy: Resistance, Pathfinding, Archery, Armorer, Water School, Estate.
Last two, possibly: Luck, Wisdom.

The idea for Clancy is having the strongest as possible general, with the support from the best magic buffs which doesn't require that many points into knowledge/spell power to be effective.
Also this build should be about hitting hard and fast. I know I should've taken Offense or Leadership instead of Estate, but I'm playing on the Impossible difficult (it's very easy actually), having extra cash early, is sort of helpful.
Further more, thus far, Gem is a better overall hero all around, when it comes to the big decisive battles I'd prefer to use her rather than him, so that means he would end contributing more with Estate, since he won't need Offense to clean and get stuff against naturals and minor enemy generals. Still I'm really unsure about this, I have a save file from before taking Estate, so if I need to roll back, I'll be abled to.

Why did I get Armorer over Offense/Leadership? There was a hunt with this skill. Clancy started with 7 Defense and 1 Attack, further more he has a higher chance of getting defense parameter than attack on level up and it seems Armorer also works against shooters.
Further more dwarfs and trees are dreadfully slow. So yeah, I won't say that Armorer was a bad pick over the above mentioned. He's quite powerful right now, honestly I just mopped the strongest army on the second map with him, with very very few loses, on 'impossible.'

It's kinda of a shame that both Gem and Clancy start with useless skills, or rather inferior choices...
I mean, for instance Logistics beats pathfinding, I'd prefer Armorer over Resistance at any day and so on. First Aid is actually very good early game for cleaning and later game for healing unicorns and dragons, still I'd prefer Archery instead for instance.

Not taking tactics because Gem has slow and Clancy will have Prayer. Also golden dragon is the third fastest unit in the game.
Anyways, opinions?
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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Famous Hero
posted November 05, 2018 10:33 PM

What i prefer for Gem:
Wisdom, First Aid, Earth, Water, Inteligence, Logistics, Armorer, Offense

Since she doesnt have a lot of Attack and Defense Offense and Armorer help. Water is better then Air(Prayer and Clone > Haste and Chain Lighting)

Sorcery and Luck are wasted slots on your Gem.

Clancy as support hero he should learn Wisdom, Earth, Logistics, Estates and Scouting.

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DecayWolf
DecayWolf

Tavern Dweller
posted November 05, 2018 11:05 PM

zmudziak22 said:
What i prefer for Gem:
Wisdom, First Aid, Earth, Water, Inteligence, Logistics, Armorer, Offense

Since she doesnt have a lot of Attack and Defense Offense and Armorer help. Water is better then Air(Prayer and Clone > Haste and Chain Lighting)

Sorcery and Luck are wasted slots on your Gem.

Clancy as support hero he should learn Wisdom, Earth, Logistics, Estates and Scouting.


I'd like to get Offense, but it's virtually impossible for a Druid.
Thus far I haven't been running in trouble of getting out of mana, due magic guild in towns. The battles also ends quickly. Dunno how it goes on level 4 and 5 spells, but thus far I've plenty of mana left.
Getting 2 magic schools certainty is tempting but, combats ends quickly and I feel each magic school have a lot tools variety to choose from and are self sufficient. I do see a point on getting clone though. How likely is for the AI to dispel/kill the clone?

For a Druid, choosing Water, they'll have to complement with another school, that's for sure, but for Earth can be a solo pick I think. I mean I do see the merit on some water spells, but then it will lead to a case scenario which I might use or not the extra spells, or having a passive which will always be working. For instance instead of Water magic, having to spend 1 turn casting clone, it seems better to always have an extra 50% range bonus from archery, with the extra turn I could use Earth spells, not only that, but also there ain't the risk of being dispelled.

Let's image a battle case scenario.
Turn 1. Mass slow.
Turn 2. Clone.
Turn 3. Mass Prayer.
Turn 4+ Meteorshower/Implosion.
(Possibly could add forgetfulness depending on the opponent. Bless ain't bad either.)

Now as pure Earth.

Turn 1. Mass slow.
Turn 2. Mass Shield.
Turn 3+ Meteorshower/Implosion.

Surely I'll be losing 4 attack and 4 defense, but I'll start killing and picking the key targets sooner, rather than later. The speed won't be as important, since the enemy will have to charge to me, plus they'll be slowed.
I think killing the enemy target before it moves, it's better than having +4 defense, which ain't that great.

20 Spell Power implosion = 1.800 damage. With Sorcery = 2.070, that an extra 270 per turn, plus it makes easier to 1 hit kill naturals on map cleaning. I'd agree the extra damage ain't very impressive, but that's about 2 non upgraded tier 7 per turn.

I didn't knew luck is capped at 3, nor did I knew the chance was so low.
So yeah, the luck pick is indeed a wasted slot. Wish I could add Offense at will.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted November 05, 2018 11:45 PM

I would'nt pick Archery for Rampart, only elves benefit from it (and ballista if you have one) and elves seems to always be targeted by AI.
Sorcery is almost never worth picking, the bonus is simply to low. (It might be worth picking a Sorcery specialist, but there are usually better heroes available.)

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DecayWolf
DecayWolf

Tavern Dweller
posted November 06, 2018 02:18 AM
Edited by DecayWolf at 02:51, 06 Nov 2018.

phoenix4ever said:
I would'nt pick Archery for Rampart, only elves benefit from it (and ballista if you have one) and elves seems to always be targeted by AI.
Sorcery is almost never worth picking, the bonus is simply to low. (It might be worth picking a Sorcery specialist, but there are usually better heroes available.)


The bonus for expert earth is +300 damage for implosion.
Expert sorcery with 20 Spell Power for implosion, gives 270 damage, plus it also works for any other spell and really helps on early game/maps to clean stuff with less spells/mana usage.
Surely going above 20 spell power is pretty easy actually, due artifacts and such, meaning it's very likely that sorcery bypass the 300 damage boost from expert earth, but with the possibility to work with every from every school. Not a bad skill I'd say.

I finished with the following settings:
Gem: Wisdom, First Aid, Earth Magic, Armorer, Sorcery, Logistics, Luck, Archery.
Clancy: Resistance, Pathfinding, Archery, Water Magic, Wisdom, Offense Armorer, Estates.

It's almost impossible to not pick Luck as a Druid, since the spawn chance on level up is extremely high.

Let's talk about the spells for mages:
Must have: One/Two magic of choice and Wisdom.
Optinal but useful: Sorcery and Intelligence.
Combat skills: Armorer, Offense and Luck.
Utillity: Logistics.

Offense is almost impossible to get and Luck is almost impossible to avoid as a Druid. Luck overall ain't completely wasted since it has a chance to double damage. The luck artifacts can be send to Clancy instead, so I can keep expanding in two fronts. Gem doesn't need an army to clean naturals at all, and in fact she can mope the floor against the enemy with a inferior army.
I had a similar mindset about archery, but then simply there isn't anything else to pick reliably. I simply cannot think about another skill that pretty much never will popup, further more I can simply add extra ranged units from other factions into my army. Also in my hands my archers never die, and they deal a hell lot of damage, even as a mage. Getting those extra 50% is really sweet.

The other choice would be intelligence, but I don't need it at all.
Maybe a second magic school, but then I'm minimalist when it comes to spending points into things that I'll not be using 100%. I'd rather to have passives working all the time, than give it to a opportunity chance.

Clancy on the other hand is almost as strong as he could ever be. But also very helpful early game and overall as kingdom manageament, due Estates.

Overall I'm happy with my new choices.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted November 06, 2018 08:25 AM
Edited by Elvin at 08:35, 06 Nov 2018.

Just finished that campaign on impossible. Archery was very useful, you keep facing armies bigger than yours so extra ranged damage helps a lot. Logistics is also a must because there is a lot of running around and enemies can often come from two sides. Earth was my first magic and rightly so, big enemy armies require some good defensive spells. Not to mention town portal later on. Air is also important, not just for haste but view air and lightning/chain lightning. Mass haste not to charge but to make sure you can finish off high level enemy heroes before they flee. View air to always know town and hero locations, very useful with all this cover of darkness. By then I had decided that I wasn't dealing enough damage so I picked water for mass bless. Clone and prayer also turned out great. Intelligence could have taken its place but I felt I had enough mana. Tactics is also nice but I gave it up for logistics, which took ages to appear.

In the end I also picked diplomacy but mostly because the other skill was bad Gave me a fantastic beginning on mission 3, I got free elves and almost 20 cerberi. Then lots of archmages. Then lots of gold dragons lol. Good stuff.

I didn't work much on Clancy, he is better off hiding in your main town where enemies won't catch him with his pants down. I hate it when the campaign gives you another hero to protect. It is very easy to be attacked out of nowhere from the fog of war with an enemy that has logistics, boots of speed or both. And Gem may not be close enough to intercept him. Instant game over and reload. I'll still use him to pick up stat boosters, huts and flag mines but not much else.

Ps you won't find town portal before mission 4, just so you don't go mage guild farming like me
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DecayWolf
DecayWolf

Tavern Dweller
posted November 06, 2018 08:57 AM
Edited by DecayWolf at 09:01, 06 Nov 2018.

Elvin said:
Just finished that campaign on impossible. Archery was very useful, you keep facing armies bigger than yours so extra ranged damage helps a lot. Logistics is also a must because there is a lot of running around and enemies can often come from two sides. Earth was my first magic and rightly so, big enemy armies require some good defensive spells. Not to mention town portal later on. Air is also important, not just for haste but view air and lightning/chain lightning. Mass haste not to charge but to make sure you can finish off high level enemy heroes before they flee. View air to always know town and hero locations, very useful with all this cover of darkness. By then I had decided that I wasn't dealing enough damage so I picked water for mass bless. Clone and prayer also turned out great. Intelligence could have taken its place but I felt I had enough mana. Tactics is also nice but I gave it up for logistics, which took ages to appear.

In the end I also picked diplomacy but mostly because the other skill was bad Gave me a fantastic beginning on mission 3, I got free elves and almost 20 cerberi. Then lots of archmages. Then lots of gold dragons lol. Good stuff.

I didn't work much on Clancy, he is better off hiding in your main town where enemies won't catch him with his pants down. I hate it when the campaign gives you another hero to protect. It is very easy to be attacked out of nowhere from the fog of war with an enemy that has logistics, boots of speed or both. And Gem may not be close enough to intercept him. Instant game over and reload. I'll still use him to pick up stat boosters, huts and flag mines but not much else.

Ps you won't find town portal before mission 4, just so you don't go mage guild farming like me


What's the max magic guild on mission 3? 3 again?

I like having 2 heroes. Gem doesn't really need a army to clean naturals and she can easily kill biggest armies than her own.
Clancy backed by all troops of the week + hired heroes troops, if propely built can expand on the opposite direction.
The only thing Gem really needs is a magic guild level 1 and that's it.

A perfect example where it comes hand is on the 3rd map.
You can send Clancy on the west, taking the dungeon path in order to utilize is pathfinding skill, leading to NW town, while Gem can take the east route, leading to NE town. So you'll end taking both towns a lot faster as if you were rushing with only 1 hero.
When it comes to conquering and defeating the enemy, once you defeat his first big army, anything else will become just fractions of it, which can't really keep up with you anymore, as long as you keep pushing.
So, it means that you can split armies and cover more ground quickier, once you've defeated the big army, that is.

I had a good rush on map 2, I've crushed the enemy so hard, on my second attempt, due build restart. It was a 1 sided game, he never see what came nor hit him.

Overall I like 2 heroes. Useful.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted November 06, 2018 10:32 AM
Edited by Elvin at 10:35, 06 Nov 2018.

Wasn't the underground in starting area guarded by lots of tier 3? I'd gotten beholders, a little painful to push through week 1 with a might hero. Or was that mission 4.. I played all 4 campaigns one after the other so I may be mixing things up.

I think mission 3 had up to lvl4 guilds if not 5.
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DecayWolf
DecayWolf

Tavern Dweller
posted November 06, 2018 05:30 PM
Edited by DecayWolf at 17:31, 06 Nov 2018.

Elvin said:
Wasn't the underground in starting area guarded by lots of tier 3? I'd gotten beholders, a little painful to push through week 1 with a might hero. Or was that mission 4.. I played all 4 campaigns one after the other so I may be mixing things up.

I think mission 3 had up to lvl4 guilds if not 5.


The monster guarding is a random dice roll, if they're higher tier they'll get less troops, lower more.
Against ranged troops Clancy ain't good at killing without taking loses, early. Against tough opponents such as Ogres he'll either need a good stack of centaurs with haste + bless to hit and run, there won't have enough time to have enough archers, since on impossible one would build them only week 2+.

Wood Elvens (most often), beholder, orcs and similar units rarely can get a kill against gem's dwarfs.
Only medusas, grand elvens, zealots, arch mages usually can get about 1 - 2 kills, but then dwarfs were worthless, so no problem at all.
If Gem manage to get a tougher unit from the map or recruit the tree then she'll be kinda immune to any lose against ranged. They're also decent at melee.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted November 06, 2018 06:09 PM

I don't carry dwarves or treants with Gem, they make her slower Centaurs and elves were enough for earlygame.
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DecayWolf
DecayWolf

Tavern Dweller
posted November 07, 2018 04:59 AM
Edited by DecayWolf at 05:01, 07 Nov 2018.

Elvin said:
I don't carry dwarves or treants with Gem, they make her slower Centaurs and elves were enough for earlygame.


Centaurs can't survive the enemy range volley. Archers if they don't kill everything they might take some causalities. Not to mention both of these units will be with Clancy.
It's just safer to carry tanky useless units, while she cleans everything.

Does units affect map movement speed? Mhmmmm...


_______

After some more testing, I'll change the build yet again.
Clancy. I felt like he really needs mass slow. Besides with Water Magic he'll have only Prayer and Bless, once he cast both, he'll become without meaningful action.
Giving him Earth Magic he will be abled to cast Prayer, Bless, Shield, Slow,  Stone Skin and maybe Weakness. Very strong for a might hero.
Estates traded for Earth Magic.

Clancy: Resistance, Pathfinding, Archery, Water Magic, Earth Magic, Wisdom, Offense, Armorer.

Gem. She could use more mana early game, when soling naturals without an army to back her, so she'll need to return less often to town, meaning more rush and things done. Later in the game, for what I've looked Implosion is quite expensive. Having extra mana will help kepping her as a killing machine.
Also as I've said earlier, she is a mage hero with very low attack score, plus Rampart only has a single ranged unit...

Archery traded for Intelligence.

Gem: Wisdom, First Aid, Earth Magic, Intelligence, Sorcery, Armorer, Logistics, Luck.

Still I'd have to say that I'm very tempted about Water Magic combo, but once I get meteor shower and implosion, I don't think I'll be doing anything else besides killing stuff, so better a passive, than something that I won't be using.
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted November 07, 2018 12:33 PM

DecayWolf said:
Does units affect map movement speed? Mhmmmm...


It does. The slowest unit carried by a Hero will be used when the game calculates the maximum number of movement points the Hero gets when the next day starts. Hence there's a tactic that moves all but the fastest creatures of a Hero to something else (Town Garrison, other Hero, Border Guard) at the end of the turn, so the Hero get maximum movement points on the start of the next day. Acquiring slower creatures doesn't affect the movement speed for that particular turn.

As for the skills of a Hero, especially campaign Heroes: Wisdom, Earth Magic and Logistics are pretty much mandatory. Other skills are mostly based on personal choice, but will not make or break your game as much as those 3 skills do.

Also, as a general rule, visit any and all Stat boosters that a map has and visit all Mage Guilds inside the Towns on the map. After all, your Hero(es) will transfer with all their stats and spells to the next map.

It's useful to have at least one secondary Hero with Scholar and Wisdom that transfers along, so you carry all learned spells up to Tier 4 through the campaign. Otherwise, you'd need to hire one with those skills on each map, increase Wisdom to at least Advanced and Scholar to Expert on that Hero, before you are able to spread spells around to all your other Heroes on that map.
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