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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: Worst town in HotA?
Thread: Worst town in HotA? This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT»
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 05, 2019 09:52 AM

Poll Question:
Worst town in HotA?

Of course it depends, but what town do you think is the worst in HotA?

Responses:
Castle
Rampart
Tower
Inferno
Necropolis
Dungeon
Stronghold
Fortress
Conflux
Cove
 View Results!

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Known Hero
posted October 06, 2019 12:00 AM

I would go with Dungeon.

Perhaps I started thinking this in a wrong way, but in Hota standards, Dungeon is definetly on the losing side when you think about how it all comes together in Hota. I simply mean that they didn't receive much of anything in Hota.

Necropolis and Conflux were heavily nerfed in Hota, but they're were really strong in SoD. Conflux is still strong, as long as the map played is at least semi-rich. Necromancery were halved, but I would also look at the bigger picture; there are far bigger maps now as well. And necro has always been in it's strongest in big maps.

Excluding these two towns, I would say other towns received more than they lost: Inferno received a ton of goodies, and Tower's life were made way easier by making the town easier and cheper to build.
Stronghold can get more meat to their army from Cyclop stockpiles, and they're the only ones who can upgrade them etc.

But then there's Dungeon.

In fact, Hota took some starting troops off. This was a consirerable hit to Shakti especially, who lost like over 25% of his units.

Overall, Dungeon lacks the "that's op" factor other towns can have or build. They can't build big spooky stacks of Demons for example. One thing that could somewhat get out of hand in Sod was Portal of Summoning, but even that recieved an indirect nerf: more dwellings overall, less chance for Dungeon ones.

Dungeon's creatures have nice abilities, but I wouldn't rank any of creatures being like the "best creature" in a spesific tier in a game. I'm not even sure if they have second best candinates either.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 06, 2019 07:18 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 07:36, 27 Oct 2019.

I don't think Dungeon is that bad, the biggest problem is building Beholders and dragons in impossible maps. Dungeon has excellent heroes, excellent special buildings, two decent shooters with no melee penalty and Minotaur Kings and Black Dragons are awesome. (Harpy Hags could almost be considered their 3rd shooter)

I am also surprised someone voted Castle the worst town, but perhaps he/she meant the most plain/boring?...

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted October 06, 2019 10:58 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 11:10, 06 Oct 2019.

Didn't vote but I think Fortress was somehow downgraded by all other creature banks. Maybe the biggest advantage of Fortress was the easy upgrade of all those Wyverns, making for an unstopable stack. Now many towns have the same chance and while I'm happy with that I think it made Fortress less powerful. It's one of the towns I leave behind when choosing opponents to create random maps, so maybe it's the one I fill it's the worst but I can't put my finger on it.
One of these days I started a map with Cove, five days later took a Castle. Immediately stopped develop Cove, expect for the Pirates I didn't had yet, and bet full on the Castle. But without the pirates and the nymphs I wouldn't had open that path... What I know is, as soon as I have a Castle, a Tower and a Conflux, it doesn't matter with which town I started it, my main's army is always composed of the same creatures.
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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted October 06, 2019 03:03 PM

1- Tower
2- Castle
3- Rampart
4- Stronghold
5- Inferno
6- Cove
7- Necropolis
8- Fortress
9- Dungeon
10-Conflux

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Djangoo
Djangoo


Adventuring Hero
posted October 29, 2019 03:17 PM
Edited by Djangoo at 15:22, 29 Oct 2019.

Well first I have to say tough choice cause overall the town balance in the base game is very good and even better in HotA.

Probably Conflux vs Fortress. If playing random maps I think Fortress is worse because of very bad terrain, but I chose Conflux because they have the hardest of all starts on day 1 with no shooters and upgraded Pixies effectively removed from the game (I would have preferred a different kind of rebalance, even though I acknowledge that this is not an easy task, Conflux town is just a mess...)

ALso I disagree with Dungeon worst town, you get tons of upgraded harpies on day one, which are basically ranged units. With them you can clear amazingly fast if done correctly, also Mana Vortex OP.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
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Retired Hero
posted October 29, 2019 04:58 PM

I facepalmed at Fortress votes.

Inferno is the weakest statistically - it's extremely behind Castle/Cove in Damage/population and EHP/population offering nothing to compensate.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 29, 2019 05:23 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 17:23, 29 Oct 2019.

I must repeat Dungeon is not weak in any case. Their specials are amongst the best in the game (Mana Vortex and Veteran Academy + summoning portal, AND artifact merchant), and they have essentially three shooters, all of them with no melee penalty.

Also, none of their creatures are slow.
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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted October 29, 2019 06:02 PM

Doomforge said:
I facepalmed at Fortress votes.

Inferno is the weakest statistically - it's extremely behind Castle/Cove in Damage/population and EHP/population offering nothing to compensate.


Demon farming aside Inferno has got multi-hex damage Magogs and Cerberi, fast and offensive 6th and 7th level. The only problem I see is the weak heroes and high price level.

Fortress comes with wimpy flyers, slow and low-attack archers, slow powerstack units, offensively depends on Ballistics or Portal, special structures are only useful when under siege. Some good heroes though.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 30, 2019 02:06 AM

While Fortress lineup is certainly hard to grasp with the weakest ranged in the game and the slowest tier 7, it has over Inferno that their creatures are attack "casters"

Dragon Fly = Dispel and Weakness with every attack
Basilisk = Petrify
Greater Gorgon = Instakill
Wyvern = Poison (Not so useful because of probability and time, but still)
Hydra = Multi-attack (not a spell, but possibly strongest overall attack in game)

Inferno only has Pit Lord's Demon resurrect, even then it's a wasted turn not attacking unlike with Fortress's assault-spells. In all, Fortress would steamroll Inferno in direct combat, if not many demons were farmed.

And inferno is almost as little mobile as fortress. Still only one lvl2 shooter, and two "fliers" (tho efreet and devils are naturally much beefier than serpents and wyverns, the rest of units are significantly weaker and none except magogs and devils got any boost with hota)
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 30, 2019 07:44 AM

Someone voted Cove as the worst town, well that is ...interesting.

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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted October 30, 2019 11:32 AM
Edited by Ghost at 11:34, 30 Oct 2019.

Yes their HoMM opinions. You and DF don't know about opinion anything! Because you can't bring the question, and then you criticize/explain them. You're such.... All know your repeated thing/matter.
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 30, 2019 01:42 PM

Are you mad Ghost?
I'm not critisizing, I'm just wondering, especially because Cove is voted the strongest town in my other poll.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted October 30, 2019 01:58 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 14:02, 30 Oct 2019.

gatecrasher said:
Demon farming aside Inferno has got multi-hex damage Magogs and Cerberi, fast and offensive 6th and 7th level. The only problem I see is the weak heroes and high price level.


Oh, there's more than just weak heroes and stupid pricing.

THe whole lineup is dramatically underpowered statistically.

Like I said, take a full inferno population, add +40% damage and you have Castle population now. Whcih is also more durable. Logic...? Such a huge disparity is quite hard for me to understand, to be honest. 40% in a game like this is huge.

Demon farming is notoriously annoying and frustrating. In addition to playing vs. the opponent, you also have to play vs. the neutrals with all the calculations. Personally, I find it way too much work for the benefit it brings.

gatecrasher said:
Fortress comes with wimpy flyers, slow and low-attack archers, slow powerstack units, offensively depends on Ballistics or Portal, special structures are only useful when under siege. Some good heroes though.


Not just good - Beastmaster is up there with Barbarian for the title of best class, and Tazar in particular is amazing.

Even though (as mentioned before) the additional power banks changed what was originally pure Castle&fortress priviledge, Fortress still enjoys getting free snowball wyverns and combining them with their own wyverns for a powerful stack. It's no longer slow if you bother to upgrade, painful as the process is.

Fortress actually has the biggest offensive potential of all towns - if you manage to make Mighty Moos attack tier 7s and Hydras score at least 2 hits per attack. This is what I like about the town in particular: two battles with fortress may have two entirely different outcomes depending on your skill in utilizing Hydras and Gorgons. A highly tactical town, easy to develop, powerful heroes, great synergy with hives. It comes as a complete package of being able to quickly gather forces despite resource shortages, strengthen themselves "on the go" and having mighty heroes later on when you can fix the lineup weakness with other towns' units.

HotA made Stronghold somewhat better than fortress by making Cyclops easy to get + adding wolfrider pickets (whcih is quite an absurd creature bank, to be honest) but Fortress remains an upper-tier town. This is why I feel people voting it as weakest are somewhat misguided.

Inferno and Dungeon get the shaft.
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 30, 2019 05:46 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 18:05, 30 Oct 2019.

Creature statistics isn't everything in town classing.

In Inferno's case, they can still be the best town in the game provided you have two of them with Castle Gate and town portal is banned, giving you uncontested map control which no other town can compare.

With Dungeon, I already said it - "weak hp per week" is a lousy metric considering they have extra Summoning Portal and basically three shooters with no melee penalty, which also lets them easily win battles vs neutrals fast and without any loss of creatures.

Plus, Black Dragons may also be the best creature in the game, total spell immunity is no bargain bin ability.

In contrast, speaking of stats, Rampart may produce lots of HP but many of them are stuck in extremely slow creatures like Dwarves and Dendroid which aren't convenient to take into armies due to adventure map speed loss.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted October 30, 2019 06:27 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 18:27, 30 Oct 2019.

NimoStar said:
In Inferno's case, they can still be the best town in the game provided you have two of them with Castle Gate and town portal is banned, giving you uncontested map control which no other town can compare.


Ah well, when we start throwing "ifs" then how about extremely poor maps where Fortress strives and Cove/Tower/Castle suffers?

I'd say it's best to compare without conditions...

NimoStar said:
With Dungeon, I already said it - "weak hp per week" is a lousy metric considering they have extra Summoning Portal and basically three shooters with no melee penalty, which also lets them easily win battles vs neutrals fast and without any loss of creatures.


To make proper (reliable) use of summoning portal you have to flag only specific dwellings, avoiding ie. trog/harpy dwellings, which makes early game harder since you can't "unflag" them and you kinda need them to cover for Dungeon's resource hunger.

NimoStar said:
Plus, Black Dragons may also be the best creature in the game, total spell immunity is no bargain bin ability.


It's a double edged sword, honestly. I personally find dragons overrated a bit for the insane costs of their dwellings if you include mage guild level 2+3 you may not even need.

My favorite T7 are those who can be accessed early, even if upgrade is problematic: Behemots, Giants and Hydras. Giants especially since they upgrade into a fantastic T7 while being very cheap to build (only 5000 gold for the building, that's amazing). Hydras not so much (unupgraded they are too slow to be of real use).

And of course Angels due to their superiority (Archangels are obviously the best creature there is and week 1 angels is doable on many maps + they come from griffin banks).

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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted October 30, 2019 06:44 PM

Stats say nothing about power of towns because they are created without any multiplayer experiences and the game is much more than stats.

Inferno seems like the weakest town to you if you compare tier vs tier units because it is not a straightforward frontal assault town like Cove or Castle.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted October 30, 2019 07:19 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 19:20, 30 Oct 2019.

Otuken said:
Stats say nothing about power of towns


And what would happen if you further reduced them by 20-30%?

You'd be very quickly reminded that you need the numbers behind your troops

There is a reason offense is considered a must have skill, you know. it "only" adds 30% to your melee damage. The disparity between Castle/Cove and Inferno is greater than that by default (melee+ranged).

Otuken said:
Inferno seems like the weakest town to you if you compare tier vs tier units because it is not a straightforward frontal assault town like Cove or Castle.


No? I'd say Cerberi, Demons or Efreet are pretty straightforward offensive creatures. Hota buffed Archdevils a lot but the number one problems with them (cost) remains... I'd be more OK with this town is base devil dwelling was made significantly cheaper. They can even weaken the basic devils if they wish.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted October 30, 2019 08:04 PM

Doomforge said:
I facepalmed at Fortress votes.

For me both Fortress and Inferno have their pros and cons but I prefer to beat weak heroes and get access to Efreet Sultans and Archdevils, then beat strong heroes for +1 of defense, Dragonflies and upgrade the wyverns I may have got from hives.
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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted October 30, 2019 08:43 PM

Stats say nothing because it is not a game that just concluded with a final meeting between all tiers of your starting town units (per x) vs all tiers of your opponent's starting town units (per x).

Inferno has tons of advantages over both Castle and Cove. Inferno has one of the best unupgraded army plus easy accessibility to lvl6 and relatively easy lvl7 -which are both fast flyer- makes it extremely potent rush town.  A careful Inferno player can clear maps faster than any other town also considering how easily can demoniacs learn logistic it makes pretty much difference.

Also Demon stack helps a lot breaking creture/resource banks and dragon utopias if used properly.

You are also right about Archdevils they are really not good considering ptheir price but devil is just do fine and may be even the best unupgraded lvl7 unit.

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