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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: The ideal HoMM: where do Dwarves belong?
Thread: The ideal HoMM: where do Dwarves belong? This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · «PREV
FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted June 18, 2020 01:46 AM

Well, they had both human-looking golems and monster-looking golems, so I don't see the problem here.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
posted June 18, 2020 12:39 PM

Armageddon Blade Crystal Dragon was also Golem. He was made by Dracon's Mother using Crystals and Bones of Dragons along with Wizard Magic to animate them.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted June 18, 2020 01:03 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 13:03, 18 Jun 2020.

What are we even talking about anymore? I mean, ok, create golems of all shapes and sizes (Crystal Dragons are an exception in a certain area, since they're alive), but what was the point of this thing with golems?
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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TheYellowDart
TheYellowDart

Tavern Dweller
posted June 25, 2020 08:06 PM

Well, we see in MM7 that the Dwarves are a separate faction - they live under the Barrow Downs in south-central Antagarich, between the Contested Lands and Bracada.

Lore-wise troops that fight for a town aren't always native to that town - some of them are allies. This is spelled out explicitly in the Long Live the Queen campaign, in which we see Erathia's standing army (Pikemen, Archers, Swordsmen, Monks, and Cavaliers) work to recruit Angels and Griffins into its ranks. It's also pretty clear in towns like Dungeon - most of Nighon's population is human, but being a Thay-esque magocracy means that in lieu of a standing army they have a variety of creatures that they managed to persuade to fight for them.

These two things taken together indicate that Dwarves aren't citizens of AvLee and their presence in the Rampart town is likely the result of an alliance between Dwarves and Elves. So I think it's entirely feasible that this alliance is temporary. Geographically and politically Dwarves joining Bracada (Tower) would actually make a lot of sense. It would be possible to have Dwarves branch out and become a new faction, although it'd take some thought as to what sort of allies they could bring to the fray (Giant Moles could be cool, although maybe I've just been playing too much Age of Wonders).

Now, that's all lore-wise. The other question is gameplay-wise. What do the Dwarves bring to the Rampart town? What role do they fill? Could Rampart do without that role, or with that role altered? If they move to Tower, which unit would they replace? What would they accomplish that other units don't? Would they overlap too much with Golems? If they become their own faction, what would they bring to the table that other factions don't? Each faction has a "thing," what would be the Dwarves' thing?
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Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Famous Hero
It's a fixer-upper
posted July 13, 2020 06:27 PM

Personally I've always felt that Dwarves and Elves should be in separate factions because otherwise, the Elves tend to overshadow the Dwarves. I did very much like them in Academy in H4, but I think a faction of their own is generally better. As we saw in H5, this can be very hit or miss, but I think one of the few redeeming qualities of H7 was the Fortress line-up, which I thought was very cool overall. Even the Kolbalds eventually grew on me. Alternatively, Academy could be slightly modified to be a predominately Dwarven faction rather than them just being a small part of it. It would be a cool contrast to how Dwarves are typically portrayed as warriors with a distrust of magic, preferring technology instead. In Dragon Age for example they are even physically incapable of casting spells.
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http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=46284&pagenumber=1
^ Part 2 of my proposal for Heroes 8 (Part 3 coming soon)

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Dj
Dj


Promising
Supreme Hero
Always loyal to HC
posted July 13, 2020 10:10 PM
Edited by Dj at 22:24, 13 Jul 2020.

TheYellowDart said:
Well, we see in MM7 that the Dwarves are a separate faction - they live under the Barrow Downs in south-central Antagarich, between the Contested Lands and Bracada.

Lore-wise troops that fight for a town aren't always native to that town - some of them are allies. This is spelled out explicitly in the Long Live the Queen campaign, in which we see Erathia's standing army (Pikemen, Archers, Swordsmen, Monks, and Cavaliers) work to recruit Angels and Griffins into its ranks. It's also pretty clear in towns like Dungeon - most of Nighon's population is human, but being a Thay-esque magocracy means that in lieu of a standing army they have a variety of creatures that they managed to persuade to fight for them.


They work to recruit in mass, but that doesnt mean that the griffins were not a part of Erathia's identity.
1) The name Gryphonheart surely comes from there
2) The flag symbol is a griffin

This shows that this is an old alliance and until now (then, hehe), an assembly was not needed. The empire would be invaded, of course they recruit any living being possible in order to fight for survivability.

About Dungeon, I think it's the other way around. I see the human heroes as outcast to (because of various reasons) or even exploring the dungeons of Nighon and encountering native creatures of those dungeons (troglodytes, medusas, minotaurs, manticores and red/black dragons), which probably already had a sort of established society. At least with the humanoid ones. Medusas have queens(!), Minotaurs have kings (!), harpies and troglodyes are the low class ones. I see them kind of like pirate-y, but in dungeons, to which humans came.


Quote:


These two things taken together indicate that Dwarves aren't citizens of AvLee and their presence in the Rampart town is likely the result of an alliance between Dwarves and Elves. So I think it's entirely feasible that this alliance is temporary.


We should also look at their buildings. The dwarves live in burrow-like cottages, this shows their nativity in the land and that they are not there for a temporary alliance. How much would it take for each dwarf family to build a burrow? Is it even useful? An urgent alliance (due to war) calls for normal cottages (not under earth), heck, tents.

No. Rampart is the representation of AvLee, the capital city of the elven kingdom. Dwarves live among them probably within a district of their own.

The only city (maybe two) which are urgent and temporary alliances and work as war settlements are Conflux and Forge. The rest of them are factions, kindgoms, capitals that have been settled for many generations (e.g. Erathia has more than 2000 years).


Quote:
It would be possible to have Dwarves branch out and become a new faction, although it'd take some thought as to what sort of allies they could bring to the fray (Giant Moles could be cool, although maybe I've just been playing too much Age of Wonders).


There are also Dark Dwarves which can be found on Jadame. We know the dwarves on the Enorth continent (Heroes 2) and factions of dwarves on Antagarich (near Bracada and in AvLee). This shows that they are widely spread and must have a place of origin, a capital, a kingdom where they all come from.

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