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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Town Portal
Thread: Town Portal This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted May 16, 2021 02:18 PM

Poll Question:
Town Portal


TP question

What do you think of TP? Just normal for me when is a harder DD and Fly. But we have Phoenix, he wanted change. Now we can write freely here.

Remember the voting result is just HC.
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Fight MWMs - stand teach

Responses:
OP TP needs a change
OP TP doesn't need to change
Unpower TP needs a change
Unpower TP doesn't need to change
4lvl TP needs a change
4lvl TP doesn't need change
Your comment
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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
posted May 16, 2021 02:23 PM

TP itself doesn't need a change, there should just be an option to limit it at 1 cast/day (or something along the lines) in competitive.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted May 16, 2021 02:36 PM

What I don't like about TP is how insanely powerful it becomes from Basic to Advanced Earth Magic.
It is one of the reasons why Earth Magic is always mandatory.

What I would propose is:
Basic: Only to nearest town and only 1 cast per day.
Advanced: TP to the 2 nearest towns and only 1 cast per day.
Expert: TP to the 3 nearest towns and only 1 cast per day.

The fact you can cast it unlimited times per day is just insane, not even Dimension Door is that insane and it is a level higher.

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Kipshasz
Kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted May 16, 2021 02:48 PM

nothing wrong with TP, you noobs just need to learn how to play properly.
____________
"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted May 16, 2021 03:01 PM

Until I see a map with a such limited TP but still enjoyable to play, I am doubtful about such major changes. I even think they will be a big turn off.

In single player maps, TP access should be carefully handled by author and be granted at the right moment, after you deserved and have worked for it. The qualities of a good middle and late game depend of how the mapmaker transcends all the early specific challenges, like limited movement, scarce resources and battling with weak creatures into mass AI murder, where you don't have boring timeouts, like walking back and worth to recruit units.

But please do it, release such version then see the reception, instead of complaining a million of times.  

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted May 16, 2021 03:03 PM

Salamandre said:
But please do it, release such version then see the reception, instead of complaining a million of times.  

Please tell me HOW to do it then, cause I don't know.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted May 16, 2021 03:04 PM

Ask those who nerved DD, I guess it should look similar.
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted May 16, 2021 03:06 PM

I have, but they could'nt tell me either.
I know how to change the movement cost of it and I can make it only go to nearest town, which does'nt affect the AI, but that's about it.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted May 16, 2021 03:11 PM

Is not that they wouldn't tell, but that they wouldn't invest time to find how at YOUR request, unless you prove being productive and motivated. Release some mods/maps, then maybe you get the attention.
Maybe RoseKavalier will be more receptive than Hota team, ask him.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted May 16, 2021 03:24 PM

HotA team does'nt answer.
I have asked the modding community and they don't know.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
posted May 16, 2021 03:31 PM


____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted May 16, 2021 03:39 PM

It's banned in MP anyway and I don't see myself enjoying playing XL maps vs AI with a nerfed version of TP.
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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted May 16, 2021 04:38 PM

I'm neutral this thread. Only I read. But I can reveal part of the key: TP vs Diplomacy vs Necromancy vs DD/Fly. How? Many heroes. Ok they had nerfed Diplomacy, Necromancy and DD. I think yes they fix TP. But some wants enjoy by HoMM jungle and rule. So they play SoD or/and WoG/ERA.  
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Fight MWMs - stand teach

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
posted May 16, 2021 04:56 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 16:57, 16 May 2021.

Diplomacy wasn't really nerfed (just given more settings and changed settings on a few popular, default templates), and the DD nerf is available only with Tournament Rules enabled. Tbh, all/most such nerfs and balance changes should be included in an option such as the so-called "Tournament Rules" instead of being forced. And yes, they could be forced in ranked PvP at least.

As for TP, in a PvP match, if the opponent has it, regardless of your skills, strategies, etc., the opponent's chances of winning are significantly higher. They can simply just abuse the spell any way they want, transporting army, refilling mana whenever they want, returning to their towns right before you take them, etc., all of these things being much harder and impractical to do for someone who doesn't have the spell, usually needing a few days at the very least, compared to one turn. And yes, in PvP at the very least, even just one of these actions can be crucial for the match's outcome (unless you're facing a noob or someone with bad RNG lol).
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted May 16, 2021 05:57 PM

I can agree on the DD removal, but frankly the optimal usage of the heroes chain (and poor man TP as well) - let's remember that most PVP games are on medium or large map - is a valid substitute to TP.

There are many things which can give some advantage, map dwellings nearby, refugee camps, huts, first gold chests etc, but imo there is some enjoyable experience when the randomness is kind to you. I understand that some professional players would want victory to depend only on their skill, but also that removes a large part of the thrilling.  

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
posted May 16, 2021 06:04 PM

That's exactly why have it only as an option.
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted May 16, 2021 06:34 PM

TP isn't banned in MP, or at least isn't banned in most played templates.

I believe this due the fact that the games don't actually last that long, despite the standard map size being usually XL. In jebus cross for example, the games tend to end at week 2. So, you can imagine there not being that much stuff to collected from your starting - or any - town from that matter.

Imo TP is only really "OP" in AI games. AI is programmed to play to it's bitter end - it doesn't really care if it loses it's most powerful hero, 95% of it's whole army or all artifacts. When played against AI, the "best" battle usually happens during the mid game. Once you have defeated that, the game will keep on playing, but that's mostly you trying to grab the towns and trying to not lose your towns to the relentless conquer attempts, the fun part of the game is basically over. In that last phase of the game, TP can be kinda considered OP, but IMO it's mostly a quality of life thing - I wouldn't personally want to keep on playing a map that has basically already ended.  

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted May 16, 2021 06:56 PM

The problem is that the player that gets TP and Advanced Earth first will have a huge advantage.

DD at 4 times per day is also OP, 1 is more than fine.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted May 16, 2021 07:10 PM

Phoenix4ever said:

DD at 4 times per day is also OP, 1 is more than fine.

Well, tournament rules already enable that rule (and 2 casts of DD, if map is XL+U or bigger, when you have expert Air)

It doesn't make sense to enable that to "normal" rules, and DD is pretty much a key thing for map makers anyway.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted May 16, 2021 09:35 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 21:36, 16 May 2021.

Well, what about this alternate change

Town portal depletes equivalent to a whole day of movement (with minimum movement creature)

I'm sure that nerfs it enough while still being able to use the existing mechanics.

PS: In Heroes 4 Town Portal only takes you to the nearest town, but can be used to escape in combat. That is why I made it max level.
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Never changing = never improving

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