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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Heroes 4 ULTIMATE - FULL RELEASE
Thread: Heroes 4 ULTIMATE - FULL RELEASE This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT»
i3570k
i3570k

Tavern Dweller
posted July 14, 2021 08:01 AM
Edited by i3570k at 08:14, 14 Jul 2021.

Is it just me or that XL maps are not working? Every XL map I've tried got a "is bad" msg.

PS: Is it possible to change the portraits myself? I would like to bring back some of the portraits from the Greatest Mod.

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IamNotHelping
IamNotHelping


Hired Hero
posted July 15, 2021 07:10 AM
Edited by IamNotHelping at 09:29, 15 Jul 2021.

Hello Nimostar,
Thank you and everyone involved for realeasing this mod.

I have noticed some glitches in the campaign editor, idk if its my issue or if other have it as well.

In campaign editor, in "landscape objects/structure", if i scroll down the list of objects it crashes my editor

I just installed the mod and was checking what was added, can I ask what are the huge "delete me now" objects in "adventure object/town"

Infinite mana only gives me 9 additional mana (25-16) instead of 55-16. It makes it still usable on the map (it needs to be cast more times than planned) but definitely pointless in combats.

Edit: opening artifacts/expansion also crashes my editor, and it seems to be stuck at the bug. Reopening the editor directly continues the prrvious session,which means opens artifact/expansion and crashes again.
Deleting the map the editor crashed on doesn't resolve the issue.
Restarting pc doesnt help as well.
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted July 20, 2021 08:19 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 08:23, 20 Jul 2021.

i3570k said:
Is it just me or that XL maps are not working? Every XL map I've tried got a "is bad" msg.

PS: Is it possible to change the portraits myself? I would like to bring back some of the portraits from the Greatest Mod.


XL maps I have not tried specifically to test, but Xanfa's challenge (original 1.1 version, not "edited 2 player version") wqorked, and I think that's XL, is it not?

The not working could have to do with internal memory that maybe the GL Wrapper or the Plugin project is using, I don't know.

Some memory locations that the game tries to use for loading very large maps with many objects may be being used by RoseKavalier's plugin system. This problem was also present with Equilibris systems sometimes. It's not (directly) my fault as I didn't change low-level programming stuff.

A very remote chance is maps specifically using the disabled spell "bloodfrenzy". Until there is a mass spell plugin (for which I already found the adresses to modify, but can't program), this can't be fixed.

Quote:
Hello Nimostar,
Thank you and everyone involved for realeasing this mod.

I have noticed some glitches in the campaign editor, idk if its my issue or if other have it as well.

In campaign editor, in "landscape objects/structure", if i scroll down the list of objects it crashes my editor

I just installed the mod and was checking what was added, can I ask what are the huge "delete me now" objects in "adventure object/town"

Infinite mana only gives me 9 additional mana (25-16) instead of 55-16. It makes it still usable on the map (it needs to be cast more times than planned) but definitely pointless in combats.

Edit: opening artifacts/expansion also crashes my editor, and it seems to be stuck at the bug. Reopening the editor directly continues the prrvious session,which means opens artifact/expansion and crashes again.
Deleting the map the editor crashed on doesn't resolve the issue.
Restarting pc doesnt help as well.


I am aware of this bug. Don't know the cause, but for some reason some objects become bugged.

V4 will include a minimal "default palette" so all resets are to base H4, where there are no bugged objects, so this will be partially "fixed".

For now, you can still make maps using the default editor.
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https://www.moddb.com/mods/greatest-mod

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IamNotHelping
IamNotHelping


Hired Hero
posted July 20, 2021 12:49 PM

NimoStar said:


I am aware of this bug. Don't know the cause, but for some reason some objects become bugged.

V4 will include a minimal "default palette" so all resets are to base H4, where there are no bugged objects, so this will be partially "fixed".

For now, you can still make maps using the default editor.


I just wanted to check if I was the only obe having this isue or not. I am still working on my campaign which was planned to be in vanilla H4. I will need to make an updated version for changes in plot that would come from difference in spells so I won't be using ultimate editor for the moment. Just wanted to provide some feedbacks.

On another note, did anyone else have the issue with the Infinite Mana spell?
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted July 20, 2021 01:14 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 13:50, 20 Jul 2021.

Infinite Mana is always intended to be 25. The problem is with the displayed number, which is higher due to an unknown factor.

And I think that if you have it, you should not have to cast it in combat to begin with, since you can prepare beforehand as many spell points as you like. However, even then in the case you coudn't prepare (example, learning spell just before combat, as getting a scroll or from an encounter event), if you have your last 16 mana, it can be worth it.

PS: Oh also, I forgot to say. You can edit portraits. You just need to take them from ULT.h4r extraction.
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IamNotHelping
IamNotHelping


Hired Hero
posted July 20, 2021 03:17 PM

NimoStar said:
Infinite Mana is always intended to be 25. The problem is with the displayed number, which is higher due to an unknown factor.

And I think that if you have it, you should not have to cast it in combat to begin with, since you can prepare beforehand as many spell points as you like. However, even then in the case you coudn't prepare (example, learning spell just before combat, as getting a scroll or from an encounter event), if you have your last 16 mana, it can be worth it.

PS: Oh also, I forgot to say. You can edit portraits. You just need to take them from ULT.h4r extraction.


Ok, my bad, i thought it was 55.
Btw, I wanted to check if it is normal that you can cast it on allies or not. If yes it means that having one grandmaster order means all your heroes in an army can have infinite mana.

PS: I just realized the mana the spell gives can exceed the max mana of a hero.
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted July 20, 2021 03:49 PM

Quote:
Btw, I wanted to check if it is normal that you can cast it on allies or not. If yes it means that having one grandmaster order means all your heroes in an army can have infinite mana.


Indeed it is normal.

Quote:
I just realized the mana the spell gives can exceed the max mana of a hero.


That's why it's "infinite" :V


And Gandalf still believes Order is underpowered

Anyways, this spell will be replaced when the mass_spells plugin is done, since I fully realize it can be thought of as OP. (even if having infinite mana is not as good as it sounds - you still can use top one spell per round and no spell costs more than 16, so indeed it is onlY "extra rounds of spellcasting at the end of the combat",mostly)
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IamNotHelping
IamNotHelping


Hired Hero
posted July 20, 2021 06:10 PM

NimoStar said:

Anyways, this spell will be replaced when the mass_spells plugin is done, since I fully realize it can be thought of as OP. (even if having infinite mana is not as good as it sounds - you still can use top one spell per round and no spell costs more than 16, so indeed it is onlY "extra rounds of spellcasting at the end of the combat",mostly)



Didn't play enough yet to talk about ultimate, so I'll only talk about vanilla spells.
I think Order is the weakest when played by PC, but the utility it offers makes it super strong when played by human.
For example teleporting your rank 4 monster army in their backline.
Teleporting their ranged unit frombthe turret to infront of you,etc.
However I do agree that Infinite Mana is less OP than it sounds. Because it's main purpose is to keep your mana between different fights. However it is rare to have multiple hard fights in a row at a later stage of the game (GM order). So it would usually be a lot of mobs fight, that don't need that much mana anyway before facing a boss where you would really need a lot of mana.

Is it possible that some spells are affected by the mana stats? I think some are affectedby luck stats, so I just wanted to ask if it was possible for example to do more damage when you are 90+% mana than when you are 40% mana.

I liked the concept of the spell, but I also think order lv5 spells can seem less scaleable (having multiple heroes learning them doesnt seem that useful when compared to others)
Town gate/IM and Mass Aging only need 1 hero.
In Chaos only Mass Psychosis can't scale.
In Death, Imortal Coil and Mass Cancelation doesn't scale.
Life magic seem very scaleable, having multiple casters can easily bypass the sanctuary restrictions.

Personally, the spell I think is the weakest of all lv5 is Immortal Coil, since it is a lv5 spell that gives an effect similar to that of a potion. And the buff itself isn't that strong.
Having a second life is cool against enemies who only hit once, however multiple enemies/enemies who hit multiple times reduces its efficacity. Also losing all the other buffs after revival is a high cost for a lv5 spell.
I used to always keep 20+ immortality potions per important hero when I played a campaign. When hero is high enougth level, it feels like the amount of time needed to make an army relevant is too long so I would rather spend the gold on potions.  

Of course those are all my opinions before playing a lot of Ultinate games. The update of creatures ability should make armies more relevant.

Just an idea of a spell I think could be interesting is a spell that refills ranged ammunition. It is similar to refilling mana but I think can have a much bigger impact on a fight.
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted July 20, 2021 06:21 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 18:27, 20 Jul 2021.

Quote:
so I just wanted to ask if it was possible for example to do more damage when you are 90+% mana than when you are 40% mana


With current mechanics, it isn't possible.

The game runs on turing-complete machines so it is theoretically possible to program this, but seems a lot of work for little gain. Specially as that would definitely make many spells imbalanced.

Quote:
I liked the concept of the spell, but I also think order lv5 spells can seem less scaleable (having multiple heroes learning them doesnt seem that useful when compared to others)


Default Order didn't have much scalable effects, but these are added in greatest mod:

- Frost Ring
- Massive Exile
- Experimental Shock
- Ghastly Fate (level 5)
[I'm not counting the Time Reverse as scalable]

There is definitely utility to having more than one hero even with "Non scalable" effects.

Quote:
Personally, the spell I think is the weakest of all lv5 is Immortal Coil, since it is a lv5 spell that gives an effect similar to that of a potion. And the buff itself isn't that strong.


Oh, the buff is very strong actually. Immortality Potion is basically a must for any hard fight. Considering it costs 1500, that's a bit.

And much like Infinite Mana, Immortal Coil can be cast onto all of your heroes. So it's free immortality potions for everyone, all the time. I'd say it's a plenty powerful spells, all things considered

20+ immortality potions seems too much long single player focus. In normal games, you will not have enough time and money to do that. Furthermore, with stronger AI enemies, the more time you take, the more powerful they become. Granted, it isn't so much like that yet, but it will become closer with the future script AI enhancements for the optional map patch, for example, giving AI heroes daily XP.

Consider just the economic gain: Justthe Immortal Coil spell can produce more value that Grandmaster Estates, which is just 500 gold per day. And you still get tens of other Death spells with the same skill, while Estates doesn't do anything else. Seems like a win to me.

In any case, when mass spells plugin is done, I will add again one or more spells to each school.
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Romanov77
Romanov77


Known Hero
posted July 20, 2021 06:47 PM

Nimo, what did you changed about the campaigns?

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted July 20, 2021 09:19 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 21:21, 20 Jul 2021.

You need to load the campaigns as maps from the remastered campaigns folder. The campaigns from campaign menu don't have changes.

Anyways, one more time:
- Enviroment style upgrade. Normal campaigns almost have no map style, specially the ones from the base game. This adds thousands and thousands of decorative objects like grass, vegetables, trees, mountains, animals, flowers, fungi, and so forth.
- AI difficulty improvements such as some resource scripts and flagged mines.
- Some final bosses (eg. Gavin Magnus) have been made more difficult and/or have tome-difficulty scaling.
- There are a few secret areas added, some seas and waters have been made navigatable, etc.

And of course all the general changes of the mod that refresh the gaming experience like changed and enriched abilities, artifacts, creatures and spells; and the appearance, including fractal mixed terrain tiling which affects both map and combat screens.
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IamNotHelping
IamNotHelping


Hired Hero
posted July 21, 2021 03:04 AM

NimoStar said:


Oh, the buff is very strong actually. Immortality Potion is basically a must for any hard fight. Considering it costs 1500, that's a bit.

And much like Infinite Mana, Immortal Coil can be cast onto all of your heroes. So it's free immortality potions for everyone, all the time. I'd say it's a plenty powerful spells, all things considered

20+ immortality potions seems too much long single player focus. In normal games, you will not have enough time and money to do that. Furthermore, with stronger AI enemies, the more time you take, the more powerful they become. Granted, it isn't so much like that yet, but it will become closer with the future script AI enhancements for the optional map patch, for example, giving AI heroes daily XP.

Consider just the economic gain: Justthe Immortal Coil spell can produce more value that Grandmaster Estates, which is just 500 gold per day. And you still get tens of other Death spells with the same skill, while Estates doesn't do anything else. Seems like a win to me.



Guess you are right. Although comparing it to nobless skills seems a bit... GM Estate giving 500 seems like its this skill itself that is weak, not the spell comparing to it that is strong.

Nimostar said:


In any case, when mass spells plugin is done, I will add again one or more spells to each school.


Can't wait for that to happen!
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted July 21, 2021 07:48 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 07:55, 21 Jul 2021.

Quote:
Guess you are right. Although comparing it to nobless skills seems a bit... GM Estate giving 500 seems like its this skill itself that is weak, not the spell comparing to it that is strong.



Estates is not really bad, consider that gold is actually pretty rare in H4. Your town doesn't generate sufficient gold to recruit your weekly creatures.

The H4 creatures have similar costs to H3 ones (4000 gold 2 res for a max level creature), as well as similar weekly growth... both while H3 town can generate 4000 daily gold, it's capped to 1000 in h4!

If you don't even recruit creatures waiting to win everything with a super high level hero, you won't notice, of course. But this is a luxury competitive people can't afford. Not even in the campaigns can one afford that, since heroes have a level cap per map, so you can't make your hero ultra powerful in any but the very last maps. A 5/10 capped level hero won't win the scenario without creatures.

Recruiting Nobles every week is actually a very good economic strategy. For Order, a Noble will pay its own price in 15 days at its very most, and anything further (several months) is net gain from estates.

At GM estates, your hero is producing 50% of the max daily gold of a town. That could be taken as roughly equivalent to an H3 hero producing 2000 gold daily with Expert States (half of a Capitol). As you can see, it's not as bad as it may sound. EVen if it's not perfectly equivalent, your GM estates hero will be at least level 10 on average, meaning it actually produces 100% more due to level bonuses - a full 1000 gold daily (something reachable only in level 20 for H3 Estates specialists). Even then, the Immortal Coil saves you 1500 gold for every use, for just learning the spell.

Quote:

Can't wait for that to happen!


Me neither, but have to wait anyways


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i3570k
i3570k

Tavern Dweller
posted July 23, 2021 05:51 AM

NimoStar said:
i3570k said:
Is it just me or that XL maps

XL maps I have not tried specifically to test, but Xanfa's challenge (original 1.1 version, not "edited 2 player version") wqorked, and I think that's XL, is it not?




I always got the "File Xanfa's Challenge is bad" msg. It's weird as all other default maps are fine. Tried compatibility mode, running as admin. I even tried a copy saved using Editor_Ultimate_V.exe  It's always bad.
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted July 23, 2021 10:26 AM

i3570k said:


I always got the "File Xanfa's Challenge is bad" msg. It's weird as all other default maps are fine. Tried compatibility mode, running as admin. I even tried a copy saved using Editor_Ultimate_V.exe  It's always bad.


Are you certain you are using the correct version? This is the version that should load. The 2p version will not load, but this 6p one will (and can still be played by two people anyways).

https://filebin.net/s1h4k83bgr8i2dle (expires in 6 days, but is available at maps4heroes et al)
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i3570k
i3570k

Tavern Dweller
posted July 23, 2021 11:14 AM

NimoStar said:
i3570k said:


I always got the "File Xanfa's Challenge is bad" msg. It's weird as all other default maps are fine. Tried compatibility mode, running as admin. I even tried a copy saved using Editor_Ultimate_V.exe  It's always bad.


Are you certain you are using the correct version? This is the version that should load. The 2p version will not load, but this 6p one will (and can still be played by two people anyways).

[url=https://filebin.net/s1h4k83bgr8i2dle]https://filebin.net/s1h4k83bgr8i2dle[/url] (expires in 6 days, but is available at maps4heroes et al)


I got the "File Xanfas Challenge is bad" msg with this one as well. It's different from the default one. The default one map type is Winds of War while your version is HoMM4. Neither works for me for some reason. All the other bundled L,M,S maps work fine. It's very strange.  
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted July 23, 2021 11:35 AM

Hmm. I could play it in the previous version, but not this one. Strange indeed.

Possibly, one of the common causes of "map is bad" is the altered mass spells, which also would explain explain why the map editor cannot open it. When there is a mass spell plugin -assuming that day ever comes, but it should since there is no great difficulty, only needs a little will...-, I can make the corresponding changes and we can test if the problem is fixed.
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boho
boho


Hired Hero
posted July 24, 2021 01:53 AM

NimoStar said:

Quote:

Can't wait for that to happen!


Me neither, but have to wait anyways



What is stopping you from coding it yourself? Everybody starts somewhere.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted July 24, 2021 10:59 AM

That I'm working 40 hours a week on ghost writing and another 40 on Role-playing game development.

Plus, other programmers have already tried and failed. ANd it requires understanding of RoseKavalier's code first. It would be folly to presume my first programming plugin can best the efforts of experienced people in the field.

Additionally, I am preparing a second bugfix for the mod, which will fix a problem with the Dispel animation that crashes the game (I had replaced the animation before, but turns out the one I used had the footer of a "combat" animation instead of a "spell/town" animation).
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Romanov77
Romanov77


Known Hero
posted July 29, 2021 09:12 PM

Thanks for your time and effort, Nimostar, you really make Heroes 4 the game that could and should have been!

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