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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Heroes 4 ULTIMATE - FULL RELEASE
Thread: Heroes 4 ULTIMATE - FULL RELEASE This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV
Fatladyxxx
Fatladyxxx

Tavern Dweller
posted July 30, 2021 04:57 PM

First of all,I want to congratulate you for keeping interest alive for homm4 with your mods.

Now concerning the mod,I believe you should take another look at the creature changes as some of them are hit or miss.Examples below:

Titans: I don't really think they benefit at all from the berserk ability since it weakens the strategic part of the game while adding nothing in general(the cyclops is a possible exception as not being able to land perfect shots makes them more balanced than equilibris).
By the way,where is no melee penalty?They had it back in homm3 and it definately fits them thematically.Maybe it would be too strong combined with their new lightning strike.
Since titans have a history of fighting dragons,why not add the slayer ability?Immunity to mind spells is also an interesting idea.

Summed up ability suggestions: Ranged,No melee penalty,Mind Spell Immunity,Slayer/Chaos Ward

Nagas: Block is a pretty powerful defensive ability(balanced by it's randomness)which helps the nage stand in the frontlines so props for that.However it seems that genies are still the definite choice because of their utility.You can try giving them back the no retaliation ability to boost their power.

Minotaurs: Minos are pretty underwhelming compared to the mighty medusas,adding the charge ability is a step in the right direction but they need some more help.

Ability Suggestions:Block,Charge,Mirth(can we give them perma mirth?), +1 speed

Ogre Magi:Great changes all over,perhaps they could get +5hp to be able to endure heavy fire.

Thunderbirds:Ignoring wards seems rather useless,even considering their lightning attack.Since they are supposed to be lightning quick,first strike could be a good option.

Medusas:They were good before,now they get no retaliation for melee.In order to balance them better(at least compared to minos)their shots need to take a big hit (8-10 seems ideal)

Magi:I like the idea of giving them hypno/aging when melee but it still doesn't matter if they get one shotted in the first round of combat.Think they need some more damage on their ranged and +2 hp +1 def.

I am really looking forward to the future of this mod!
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Romanov77
Romanov77


Known Hero
posted August 02, 2021 02:56 PM

Nimo, the removal of Berserkers was a bad, in my opinion, they were perfect for Might.

You could do a rework like this:
Let them be controllable and nerfed like they are now.
-Add an activable ability or spell that makes them go berserk so they regain the double attack and the buffs, but remain uncontrollable for the rest of the battle.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted August 05, 2021 08:13 AM

First off, I would like to announce the new release. This is third bugfix update:

https://www.moddb.com/mods/heroes-iv-ultimate/downloads/h4-ultimate-v3-first-full-release

(Same link)

In this version:
- Fixed crash with Dispel animation. (image editor still can't create valid spell animations)
- Map Editor, if crashing, should revert to a minimal object palette that prevents further crashes.

Have fun and as always I'm here for any doubt.

___

Fatladyxxx:

Titan berserk does something thematically, it makes them immune to terror and panic.

As you said, lighting strike and no melee is too strong. Lightning fullfill the same function while being more spectacular.  Order has slayer on halflings already, two slayer units in different tiers may be a bit much.

Thunderbirds: Considered first strike, but would require stats adjustements to weaken attack. Melee + lightning before enemy retaliation is too strong.

Other stuff like perma mirth and switchable berserk is not available right now due to programmingh limits. Think I am still waiting for the mass spell plugin to restore some old spells and end some unplayable maps.

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axefighter
axefighter

Tavern Dweller
posted August 19, 2021 04:24 PM

First of all I really appreciate the amount of effort you took to mod H4 but for my tastes this modification is more like a proof of concept rather than a thing which can be enjoyed. I am grateful that you discovered many ways in which the game can be changed and showed that in your mod, just the changes themselves are not my cup of tea. A lot of stuff seems pretty random like for example wolves with cold resistance or berserk on titans. Don't get me wrong, I am in no way trying to bash you but from my perspective it feels like you only asked yourself if you CAN add/change something rather than if you SHOULD. Anyways I think this mod while not to my liking it for certain inspired me to start modding H4 again in the near future.

Cheers.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 05, 2021 12:10 AM

Good news people: There is confirmation that Heroes 4 Ultimate can be played online via Gameranger
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________

Tavern Dweller
posted September 11, 2021 09:21 PM
Edited by ________ at 21:37, 11 Sep 2021.

First off, great mod. The creature dwelling choices were much too obvious previously, and although some fine tuning remains to be done, it is already a difference of night and day. I like almost all the creature changes and couldn't go back to Equilibris after this. As some people have mentioned, nagas, minotaurs, and ogre magi are still a little on the weak side, but already a lot more fun to use. Medusas have stone gaze, no retaliation, very high magic resistance AND a ton of shots? How can the cow people compete?

Spell changes are a mixed bag, many of them make sense but some of the uniqueness of the different spell schools has been diluted by giving everyone a little bit of everything. Making spells a little more expensive was a good move. Trailblazing needs to be a higher level - perhaps as high as level 3. Having a good chance of getting access to a spell in level 1 that effectively acts as 3 ranks of pathfinding with negligible cost is way too good.

I really don't like giving heroes unit models on the battlefield and on the adventure map. Being able to visually identify a hero as a hero at a glance improves readability of the game. This is the most important aspect. On an aesthetic level it didn't bother me at first, but gradually it began to grate on me.

I like the idea of giving the different heroes extra secondary skills, even from other skill lines, but in practice I think it was a mistake. Every alignment holds privileges over others in terms of hero recruitment. Might is the only faction that gains instant access to the Combat skill line, and has access to several varieties of non combat heroes, including Lords and Thieves, albeit at elevated price. Order and affiliated factions gain easy access to the Nobility line through Lords, and Chaos and affiliated factions gain easy access to the Scouting line through Thieves. If you give Sorcerors Mining, there is less of a tradeoff involved. Lords are the inverse of Thieves, and every hero will eventually want to take Combat. Giving Necromancers Necromancy makes them annoying to play for any other faction as you're dealing with a never ending slew of level 1 units that don't fit into your army. The same deal with Druids and Summoning. The heroes don't become less useful as a chassis for whatever advanced class you're aiming for, and their spells aren't any worse, but the makework involved with taking care of these unwanted troops constantly could be avoided.

I think the mod would be the better for it if these two changes, the creature models for heroes and the additional secondary skills, were reverted. If you disagree with my reasoning, could you tell me how I might do so on my own? Going back to Equilibris is not really an option for me anymore.

Other than that, there are some typos here and there and erroneous descriptions - fairly unimportant. It would be nice if Rogues Guild/Alchemist's Lab/Paladins etc' building description matched the available items for sale. I'm not sure luck has any impact on Implosion. I tried casting Fortune before Implosion and I also tried using a bard (permanent Fortune). It didn't seem to have any effect on damage.

Speaking of bards, have you made any changes to the advanced classes beyond prerequisites? Do you have any plans to? There are numerous advanced classes I always avoid if it doesn't cost me too much momentum to do so, because they are so much weaker than other alternatives.

Another question. Does Resurrection stack if multiple heroes in an army have it? How about Pathfinding? How about Offense etc.

The biggest flaw in Heroes 4 right now is the atrocious strategic AI. It's very passive, generally opting for upgrading to castle early and sitting at home turtling unless given a big army/xp/creature advantage. This advantage can be given to them with scripts, but it's not a very good fix. They'll still stay at home, but with bigger armies, thus slowing down the game even more. The rate at which armies  in resource banks or whatever they're called - the places where you fight for artifacts or resources and so on - the armies grow too fast, thus necessitating certain script-given advantages to AI players so they'll ever have a shot at taking these fights. But this also slows down the game. The problem is the AI's playstyle is a hacky way of covering for its bad decisionmaking, and all the current fixes only reinforce the PvE dynamic of HOMM4. Improving the strategic AI is probably outside of the scope of this mod, but reducing the rate of army growth for resource banks would allow for more dynamic games, and is well worth doing imo

Edit: There's also a weird bug causing text input to register twice. When typing player name, if attempting to type e.g. "Player", it will input "PPllaayyeerr".

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 12, 2021 08:33 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 01:46, 14 Sep 2021.

Hello and thank you very much for your comments. It is notable that you actually played the mod quite a bit unlike some other people with unthoughtful criticism based on only promotional text and screenshots.

_______________________

Quote:
I like almost all the creature changes and couldn't go back to Equilibris after this. As some people have mentioned, nagas, minotaurs, and ogre magi are still a little on the weak side, but already a lot more fun to use. Medusas have stone gaze, no retaliation, very high magic resistance AND a ton of shots? How can the cow people compete?


I believe Magi are objectively better than before. New magi would obliterate the old ones and that doesn't even take into account their aging+hypnosis attack.

Ah, you meant ogre magi well, they are certainly much better than before. New spell + curses on attack + better stats + ignore magic resistance, plus cyclops got nerfed with Berserk... can't do much more than that for them.

Medusas don't have any magic resistance AFAIK. Yet I'm looking at ways at making minotaurs better. So far, people know they are worse, and I kinda do too, but haven't seen any good proposal for buffing them.

Quote:

I really don't like giving heroes unit models on the battlefield and on the adventure map. Being able to visually identify a hero as a hero at a glance improves readability of the game. This is the most important aspect. On an aesthetic level it didn't bother me at first, but gradually it began to grate on me.



I get this and it has bothered myself too, actually I did a poll sometime however and most people favored the variety of heroes.

My aspiration was to make every creature-hero color-unique. There are a few of them which are already changed. Others have visual "tics" in combat which are different from their base creature. Mainly, I think the problemis on the adventure map, since in combat you have a hero HP/Mana gauge that creatures don't have. I may revert every creature-hero to use a normal hero look on the adventure map to prevent confusion.

Only after the mod was released we got an easier way to recoloring units.

Quote:
Giving Necromancers Necromancy makes them annoying to play for any other faction as you're dealing with a never ending slew of level 1 units that don't fit into your army. The same deal with Druids and Summoning.


Valid complaint on a Quality-of-Life level. Unfortunately there is no way to pre-disable necromancy or summoning as of now. However, you can stop summoned creatures from appearing if you fill out all seven slots in your army with non-summonable creatures. As of necromancy, I accept it can be a bother but you should probably dissolve or separate the zombies or other units if they slow down your army. Since H4 unlike h3 has actual movement per stack, you won't have any negative consequences.

On the other hand, there is actually a reasoning for which third skills are chosen for every class:

Each faction needs access to one "macroeconomic" native bonus; previously only Order had this (estates) via just recruiting nobles to increase income. Now every faction has it:

- Order: Estates.
- Nature: Summoning.
- Chaos: Mining.
- Death: Necromancy.
- Life: Resurrection.

Order is still the best since they have Treasury and that gives synergy.

I will go later to the specific of modding yourself the removal of the third skills, however.

Quote:
Edit: There's also a weird bug causing text input to register twice. When typing player name, if attempting to type e.g. "Player", it will input "PPllaayyeerr".


Part of the verrokster HD wrapper, only happens when in full screen. Try to use it on window mode, you can make it fit screen anyways. I hope that by updating this component the bug may be fixed.

Quote:
Speaking of bards, have you made any changes to the advanced classes beyond prerequisites? Do you have any plans to? There are numerous advanced classes I always avoid if it doesn't cost me too much momentum to do so, because they are so much weaker than other alternatives.


I can't change the advanced classes effects in the hack way Equilibris did, basically all I know is how to switch bonuses and prerequisited around and even then due to assembly, this is fairly hard since you need to know all the numbers and locations essentially by memory.

I would wait for a plugin to do this easily, hopefully H4 modding takes off sometime in the future...

Quote:
Another question. Does Resurrection stack if multiple heroes in an army have it? How about Pathfinding? How about Offense etc.


Well, this is unchanged from the regular game so not really a mod question, but (and don't quote me on this) I believe that in this kind of skill bonuses, if you have multiple heroes, only the highest one applies. So it's not Exp. Offense + Adv. Offense, just the Expert one trumps lower.

PS: You are probably right about Trailblazing being OP, that's just how the default Pathfinding worked; and thus the low value the game allowed to the Scouting subskills (as compared to artifacts and magic spells, even adventure ones). But I should fit is somewhat, much as I disallowed Telescope stacking to make Scouting itself more valuable.
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 14, 2021 02:18 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 03:01, 14 Sep 2021.

I have been doing some fixes, here's the changelog so far. "NY" means "Not Yet".

Quote:
3.1 Heroes IV ULTIMATE changes:

NY- Updated to last version of HD wrapper (added resolutions)

Spells:

- Trailblazing spell (Chaos magic pathfinding) is now level 2 (from 1); this is to make the Pathfinding skill less devaluated compared to magic, and also is to make back the Chaos swamp native terrain more significant.

Creatures:

* Owing to multiple reports, the Medusa/Minotaur creature choice has been revised, as Medusas were seen as strictly desirable.

- Minotaur has extra melee attack on the offense
-- Minotaur Damage reduced to compensate partially
- Minotaur movement increased (22 from 18)
- Minotaur HP slightly reduced (36 from 38)

- Medusa movement slightly diminished (17 from 18)
- Medusa drive moderately diminished (3 from 5)
- Medusa Defense slightly reduced (16 from 17)
- Medusa attack somewhat decreased (17 from 19)
- Medusa max damage slighly increased (8 from 7)

- Medusa, Beholder, Minotaur XP and gold values adjusted slightly.

NY- Lich Creature to replace Venom Spawn. (needs adventure images)

String fixes/updates:
- Priestess now correctly states it has Death ward, not Chaos ward.

- Blacksmith building descriptions of all towns updated to not mention specific artifacts (prevents obsoletion).

- Haste, Speed and Velocity spells specify that their bonuses (+3 drive, +3 movement) stack with each other.

- Implosion line about being affected with luck was misplaced. Now it's correctly in Lightning.

Remaining bugs:
- Life Ward still can't be cast in combat. Cause unknown. Its Spell Table parameters are identical to the other four wards (in Life), so the error is unknown (could be something in binary).


Of course, this isn't released as of now.
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vulcancolak
vulcancolak


Famous Hero
posted September 14, 2021 07:55 AM

What kind of monster are you. It is definitely amazing.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 27, 2021 09:04 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 22:48, 27 Sep 2021.

Thanks Vulcan

BTW, check out this guy in youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmuyUhKh7Z4

He's doing a full playthrough of the Spazz Maticus campaign in the Ultimate mod. You can also see how the maps have been remastered there.

The info he says is not always 100% accurate (for example, Sorcery hasn't been directly buffed; but it does work for a lot of more spells, in different megic schools), but to just watch should give you a look and feel.
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 08, 2021 09:54 AM

v4 Heroes IV ULTIMATE changes:
(NY = Not Yet)

- Updated to last version of HD wrapper (added resolutions)
-- This should fix the bug with double-typing when in fullscreen mode.

Cheats:
- Enabled previously unworking menu cheats, in the cheat exe version:
-- Increase level.
-- Learn skill.
-- Learn all spells.
-- Unlimited movement.

- Added Greatsword cheat in menu

- Renamed reskinned creatures in cheat menu, for example Monk -> Priestess.
- Separated faction creatures from neutral creatures in cheat menu.

Spells:

- Trailblazing spell (Chaos magic pathfinding) is now level 2 (from 1); this is to make the Pathfinding skill less devaluated compared to magic, and also is to make back the Chaos swamp native terrain more significant.
- Convoke Iron Warriors 100+10 power (from 120+12) since campaign runners showed it was pretty OP.
-- Archdevil spellpower upgraded to compensate ("1 goblin knight per 1 devil").

- Immortal Coil now counts as Healing, thus allowing this way of scaling the effect (example, with Saint Ranan's staff) when cast on creatures in combat.

Creatures:

* Owing to multiple reports, the Medusa/Minotaur creature choice has been revised, as Medusas were seen as strictly desirable.

- Minotaur has extra melee attack on the offense
-- Minotaur Damage reduced to compensate partially
- Minotaur movement increased (22 from 18)
- Minotaur HP slightly reduced (36 from 38)

- Medusa movement slightly diminished (17 from 18)
- Medusa drive moderately diminished (3 from 5)
- Medusa Defense slightly reduced (16 from 17)
- Medusa attack somewhat decreased (17 from 19)
- Medusa max damage slighly increased (8 from 7)

- Medusa, Beholder, Minotaur XP and gold values adjusted slightly.

* Phoenix realigned so that it is a somewhat "weaker" per unit level 4 (higher growth), much like Champions. This puts it mosre in line with its graphics and H3 counterpart. Also, this makes Rebirth more useful.
-- Phoenix HP per unit reduced to 180
-- Phoenix groth 3 per week (from 2)
-- Phoenix summon spell moderately weakened since more phoenixes per HP = more rebirth. Each summon cast provides a full mana gauge for rebirthing the stack again.

MISC CREATURE CHANGES:

- Peasant XP increased 33%, mainly for PEON purposes. (this makes it closer for increasing power of neutral stacks)

- Griffin vs Unicorn gold and XP adjusted to be more according to their weekly growth.

- Mermaid Gold, Growth and XP adjusted, -1 movement (compensated by having Long Weapon and Bonuses at Sea).

- Behemoth XP value adjusted to be more according to its actual power and cost.
- Sea Monster XP value adjusted to be more according to its actual power and cost.

- Mechanical Dragons (renamed from Dragon Golems) made more special with three melee attacks and unlimited retaliation.
- Damage per attack reduced to compensate partially.
- Strings updated.

- Genie -1 Drive (5 from 6), -5 Movement (25 from 30).

- Ice Demon -1 Drive, +1 min DMG.

- Priestess + Attack, +1 Drive.

_______________________________________

Anim and colors:

- Made a dark liliac Baron Von Tarkin

- Minotaurs more saturated

v- Faerie Dragons have a closer-to-H3 purplish color scheme.
NY-- Optimize and change portrait

v- Titans will now have bluish skin, closer to the H3 model. (Shows they have significantly change with berserk and lightning)
v- Earth Elementals greenish with yellow glowing eyes, much like their portrait. (Shows they have significantly changed with a ranged shot and Stone Skin)

v- Golden mantis (now blocks, negates first strike, doesn't bind)
NY-- Change portrait

v- Red-gold Megadragon (better shows it's a berserker)
NY-- Change portrait

NY- Wolves will be larger and more intimidating.
NY- Mummy to also be larger and better.

_______________________________________

Portraits and icons:
- Chaos hero portraits have now a more saturated ring.

_______________________________________

String fixes/updates:

- Priestess now correctly states it has Death ward, not Chaos ward.

- Blacksmith building descriptions of all towns updated to not mention specific artifacts (prevents obsoletion).

- Infinite Mana now always correctly states it adds an static 25 mana (costing 16), unlike having a wrong variable number.

- Haste, Speed and Velocity spells specify that their bonuses (+3 drive, +3 movement) stack with each other.

- Implosion line about being affected with luck was misplaced. Now it's correctly in Lightning.

- Undead Transformer build tip now says which kinds of creatures are converted into Bone Dragons.

- Updated titan string with correct abilities.

- Summon (and invoke) spells that create creatures with spell points now specify that they replenish the stack each time used.

- Other misc string fixes.

_______________________________________

Campaign & map changes:

WINDS OF WAR

To Rule The World (Spazz-Chaos):
- Mission 1 from To Rule the World has a significantly improved AI opponent, which will be more dangerous and agressive.
- Mission 2 significantly less buildings pre-built in towns, but you get a level 5 thief.
- Blue AI opponent now fully functional in the third and last mission (Order enemy).
- Third mission has more luck/morale powerups.
- Passability improvements.
- Misc improvements.
- Water bonus.

Enough is Enough (Erutan Revol-Nature):
- Enabled slightly more use of water.
- Landscaping improvements.
- Passability improvements.

The Magnificent One (Mysterio-Order):
- Water improvements.
- Landscaping improvements.
- More difficult monsters.

The Last Bastion (Winds of War):
- Made starting locations for each conqueror more unique.
- Extra training/morale/luck locations.
- Guardian monsters.
- More Channon hero-helping buildings at center.
- Bonus subterranean Chaos land.
- Passability improvements.

_______________________________________

*** CREATURE CHANGES ***

v- Infernal Lich to replace Venom Spawn.

This was voted on the thread: http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=47108
(3 - 2 in favor of the lich, as of the time of writing)

v- Description updated.
v- Projectile changed from acid spit to fire.

v- Ranged anim the melee anim.
v- Spell change, and spell icon change - "Invoke venom spawn" -> "Invoke Infernal Lich"
v-- HP invoked reduced, because it's replenishing the Rebirth mana with each cast, and it has "imp insurance" for one time [18 from 16 spell points] (revise).
v (needs portrait change)

v (needs necromancy description change, cince now are raised instead of Vampires)
v (may make head turn by default as stand?)
NY (needs adventure images)
NY (needs sounds changes, may use H3 lich sounds; attack most important)
NY (needs town building reskin)
NY (needs adventure building reskin [controversial, but at least add new; if replace, re.-add old one with another filename])
v (needs change in cheat menu from Venom Spawn)

NY - Make Venom Spawn fidgets appear as map objects, so they are not wasted. (two sizes? Giant priority)
NY - Make Venom Spawn carcasses as map objects (two sizes? Giant priority)
NY - Activate hybrid "venom spawn liches" as heroes.

Infernal Lich Abilities:
- Undead.
- Ranged (half melee damage).
- Fire attack.
- Rebirthing at half original strenght.

Additional annotations:
- Since Undead Transformer gives Vampires for level 4 creatures, Necromancy skill will raise Infernal Liches (as well as the Summon spell). Vampires are always OP as necromanted items, since a critical amount of them may become too powerful no matter what, due to life draining. Poltergeists at least are weak enough for this to be less of a problem, but they are still under evaluation for switch with another death lvl2 (gargoyles or cerberi).
- Appearance is now based on Baron Von Tarkin (this was to be the Equilibris lich, as well, according to planned screenshots).

Infernal Lich Notes:
My first desire was to have a toxic Lich doing a venom cloud. However, this was not possible because the game seems to have hardcoded stuff for creatures with area effect attacks. Adding the ability will not work (this seems related to invoking the "puff" animation where the projectile falls).

So, with both Area Attack and Greek Fire unavailable to work, I had to settle for a fire-themed lich, since poisoning a single target would be too much like the Venom Spawn thus not distinguishing the creature from its predecessor. The ranged poison was moved to the Waspwort -which had ranged weakness cast removed- since otherwise it would be an unused capability of the game.)

Since Fire Elementals are no longer ranged (and no longer have Fire Attack, having Breath Attack and Fire Shield instead, which are also subject to Fire Resistance), the Infernal Lich is the only ranged fire attacker.

The Infernal Lich is convenient in several other ways. For example, it "balances" the Infernopolis: Having four "fiery" creatures (t1 Imp, t2 Cerberus, t3 Infernal Lich, t4 Archdevils) and four "cold creatures" (t1 Skeleton, t2 Poltergeist, t3 Vampire, t4 Bone Dragon) in the lineup.

Other creatures realignement:
- Waspworts given Poison at a distance.
- Waspwort stats adjusted (weakened) to compensate new ability.

Other creatures improvements:
v - Change priestess name for cheat menu (from Monk)
NY - Alter Mummy portrait (and color?)
NY - Priestess sound change, they still have male monk voice
NY - Priestess adventure images, resize from combat ones
NY - Change prietess portrait for Isebeau and/or change Isabeau?

_______________________________________

Remaining bugs:
- Life Ward (Death spell) still can't be cast in combat. Cause unknown. Its Spell Table parameters are identical to the other four wards (in Life), so the error is unknown (could be something in binary).
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________
________

Tavern Dweller
posted October 08, 2021 01:08 PM

NimoStar said:

Medusas don't have any magic resistance AFAIK. Yet I'm looking at ways at making minotaurs better. So far, people know they are worse, and I kinda do too, but haven't seen any good proposal for buffing them.


Ah, you're right. For some reason the number of shots for medusa was displaying two different places in the stat sheet (siege battle), one of which was marked with a magic resistance icon.

NimoStar said:

I get this and it has bothered myself too, actually I did a poll sometime however and most people favored the variety of heroes.

My aspiration was to make every creature-hero color-unique. There are a few of them which are already changed. Others have visual "tics" in combat which are different from their base creature. Mainly, I think the problemis on the adventure map, since in combat you have a hero HP/Mana gauge that creatures don't have. I may revert every creature-hero to use a normal hero look on the adventure map to prevent confusion.


It's true that on the battle map it's easy to see which units are heroes, but while I realise it must have taken some time to make all the changes, it's a little jarring on an aesthetic level. If possible I'd like to be able to revert hero appearance back to vanilla.

NimoStar said:

Valid complaint on a Quality-of-Life level. Unfortunately there is no way to pre-disable necromancy or summoning as of now. However, you can stop summoned creatures from appearing if you fill out all seven slots in your army with non-summonable creatures. As of necromancy, I accept it can be a bother but you should probably dissolve or separate the zombies or other units if they slow down your army. Since H4 unlike h3 has actual movement per stack, you won't have any negative consequences.


Yes, this is what I've been doing until now.

NimoStar said:

On the other hand, there is actually a reasoning for which third skills are chosen for every class:

Each faction needs access to one "macroeconomic" native bonus; previously only Order had this (estates) via just recruiting nobles to increase income. Now every faction has it:

- Order: Estates.
- Nature: Summoning.
- Chaos: Mining.
- Death: Necromancy.
- Life: Resurrection.

Order is still the best since they have Treasury and that gives synergy.


I think in real play Thief will more often than not end up providing stronger economic benefit at the most critical time. With Battle Academy a Thief needs barely any xp to get Advanced Stealth, allowing free acquisition of most mines and a lot of resource piles/artifacts, IN ADDITION to providing valuable scouting information and possibly, in time, be able to make armies travel farther. Compared to a Lord, who will give 10% growth and 100 gold/day, or a little bit more if you start near a learning stone or two. If you want Lord skills to be high, you need to focus on developing him at the expense of other heroes that could be very useful. If you decide to buy a new Lord every week you'll have a strong income in gold and wood/ore, probably not as many special resources as you'd like and no developed combat useful heroes. There are pros and cons. A treasury is not really an option before you already have a great deal in the bank or a very solid income, and there are usually other concerns that take priority until the mid game. An early game advantage can be huge, often translating into a mid game advantage. This is what makes the Thief the inverse of the Lord. The hero classes are separated and interconnected by alignment in a nicely balanced web.

I know you have your own opinion on this, I just wanted to explain my reasoning.

NimoStar said:

Well, this is unchanged from the regular game so not really a mod question, but (and don't quote me on this) I believe that in this kind of skill bonuses, if you have multiple heroes, only the highest one applies. So it's not Exp. Offense + Adv. Offense, just the Expert one trumps lower.


Thank you for clearing that up.

NimoStar said:

I disallowed Telescope stacking to make Scouting itself more valuable.

A good move.

The changes you list for the next version seem pretty good, looking forward to test them and see.

Is there any way to slow the rate of garrison growth in neutral buildings, or prevent difficulty settings from increasing neutral stack size above normal? Anything that can help in strengthening AI players without upping the strength of neutrals might entice the AI to be a little more proactive. I don't really know. I'm thinking perhaps it is so wary of taking fights without overwhelming advantage that on most difficulty settings neutral buildings are left more or less untouched while the AI hides at home and slowly builds up, then after a long period of little activity burst out with a barely been used army and attack these buildings one after the other. It would be better if they didn't wait so long, but to do that neutral stacks must be smaller, but if you want the AI to play at its best and you want to start with a resource handicap, you're forced to increase the size of these neutral stacks, which leads to the aforementioned situation of the AI being extra passive. The AI is bad enough that it should ideally use its best AI on all difficulties.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


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Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 08, 2021 08:32 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 23:20, 08 Oct 2021.

Quote:
Ah, you're right. For some reason the number of shots for medusa was displaying two different places in the stat sheet (siege battle), one of which was marked with a magic resistance icon.


That's a problem which comes with the default game. Due to a hardcoded issue, number of shots and magic resistance are displayed in trhe same place in creature view, so they need to share an icon, despite my attempts to the contrary. (you can see in adventure view army screen looking at a creature that there is an unused part, where I intended to separate this, but I coudn't due to them using the exact same code to locate them).

Quote:
I think in real play Thief will more often than not end up providing stronger economic benefit at the most critical time. With Battle Academy a Thief needs barely any xp to get Advanced Stealth, allowing free acquisition of most mines and a lot of resource piles/artifacts, IN ADDITION to providing valuable scouting information and possibly, in time, be able to make armies travel farther. Compared to a Lord, who will give 10% growth and 100 gold/day, or a little bit more if you start near a learning stone or two. If you want Lord skills to be high, you need to focus on developing him at the expense of other heroes that could be very useful. If you decide to buy a new Lord every week you'll have a strong income in gold and wood/ore, probably not as many special resources as you'd like and no developed combat useful heroes. There are pros and cons. A treasury is not really an option before you already have a great deal in the bank or a very solid income, and there are usually other concerns that take priority until the mid game. An early game advantage can be huge, often translating into a mid game advantage. This is what makes the Thief the inverse of the Lord. The hero classes are separated and interconnected by alignment in a nicely balanced web.

I know you have your own opinion on this, I just wanted to explain my reasoning.


Thief economic usability is extremely map dependent. Stealth could be completely useless from the get-go.

In any case this is only an early income boopst while Lord recruiting comes in the late game. Order also has access to University where they can train Nobility for even non-lord heroes or upgrade their existing Lords. It costs gold but it gives more, so.

Warlock mining is set to somewhat offset this *long* term advantage, that comes into play when thiefs are already useless, even in a map where there are resources guarded by lvl 1-2 creatures...

And BTW Adv. Stealth requires Adv. Scouting, so battle Academy won't give it immediately. While University will be able to give nobility to non-noble heroes immediately and even mining to nobles.

Quote:
Is there any way to slow the rate of garrison growth in neutral buildings, or prevent difficulty settings from increasing neutral stack size above normal? Anything that can help in strengthening AI players without upping the strength of neutrals might entice the AI to be a little more proactive. I don't really know. I'm thinking perhaps it is so wary of taking fights without overwhelming advantage that on most difficulty settings neutral buildings are left more or less untouched while the AI hides at home and slowly builds up, then after a long period of little activity burst out with a barely been used army and attack these buildings one after the other. It would be better if they didn't wait so long, but to do that neutral stacks must be smaller, but if you want the AI to play at its best and you want to start with a resource handicap, you're forced to increase the size of these neutral stacks, which leads to the aforementioned situation of the AI being extra passive. The AI is bad enough that it should ideally use its best AI on all difficulties.


I reccomend playing difficulty on Advanced, where neutrals aren't increased so much. Champion difficulty, besides making AI more wary of engaging due to larger stacks, also gives you more experience due to being able to clear more powerful enemies = more hero level-ups.

Since unlike H3, H4 level ups are absolutely decisive in combat, this is rather problematic for balance.

In any case, I have modified campaign maps so that AI starts with some basic mines and dwellings flagged, so it doesn't need to fight the neutral stacks for everything = Champion doesn't negatively affect it that much.

We don't currently know the hex locations to modify AI behaviour but if we knew, some of your changes, for example always playing to the best of its ability, should have to be considered with the code. But the best of its ability is always bad, so...

There are some Iliveinabox scripts that help AIs, but I haven't implemented them in every map because many of them extremely increase the map size, at least the ones relevant to neutrals, since they are unoptimized and appear in every neutral stack tens of times in order to work. Each map goes from like 100 kb to like 1 mb, which considering their number, would triple the file weight of the mod.
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BrucknerHun
BrucknerHun

Tavern Dweller
posted October 17, 2021 04:55 PM
Edited by BrucknerHun at 19:00, 17 Oct 2021.

Hi NimoStar!!

I am really looking forward to the next update!!

I am here to post some bugs I have found:

#1  Potion of sacred water is only castable on yourself, that means it cannot damage the undead,because when you cast it, the spell has already on you.

#2 Binding effect bug. (This is what I posted on DC)

#3 Death Spell Unholy Song states that it affects all living creatures (NON-death), but only functonal to the Life faction, or this is intended? Hmm?? Because as now, death magic has a lots of raising spells, but other against the Life faction, it doesnt have a mass debuffing spell. (except Deaspair, or Plague) This is just an idea.

#4 Tome of Life magic not in the right artifact slot, still in the left hand. xD



Balance changes: (That you have mentioned)

I really love all the changes, and revising the Medusa-Minotaur balance, so thx for that.

My question, is why you would like to change Phoenixes, because nature has too many good LVL 4 creatures??

And one more do not change the portrait of the priestesses, it is great already!

I will buff Mummies a bit pls, because they are weak in melee combat.

All in all, I love this mod so much, that I cant go back to Equi anymore!!


#1 Only one thing that concerns me, this the Creature-like heroes. I am not saying they are bad, or anything, but they are do not fit well, and of course sometimes you cannot tell the difference both in the battlefiel or in the map. So my soulution is lets make it as optional pls!

You really deserves that much praise for creating this awesome mod!!

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!


PS: I am waiting for the Infernal Liches so much!!

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NimoStar
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Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 17, 2021 09:26 PM

Quote:
#2 Binding effect bug. (This is what I posted on DC)


Needs more testing,it's also possible this is from the original game.

Quote:
#3 Death Spell Unholy Song states that it affects all living creatures (NON-death), but only functonal to the Life faction, or this is intended? Hmm?? Because as now, death magic has a lots of raising spells, but other against the Life faction, it doesnt have a mass debuffing spell. (except Deaspair, or Plague) This is just an idea.


This is more of a description mistake,probably due to some old Equilibris text. I should change the description to Life as I can't know which hex change makes this different or if it is in the DLL.

Same happened with Prayer spell.

On the other hand, there is a Death area debuff.

It is Choking Gas.

Quote:
#4 Tome of Life magic not in the right artifact slot, still in the left hand. xD


Working As Intended.

This is so you can have all the five tomes equipped at the same time.

I always use this setup for testing, too.

Quote:
#1  Potion of sacred water is only castable on yourself, that means it cannot damage the undead,because when you cast it, the spell has already on you.


You are right. Tho the spell based on it is working fine.

Will do more tests
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BrucknerHun
BrucknerHun

Tavern Dweller
posted October 18, 2021 08:38 AM
Edited by BrucknerHun at 09:28, 18 Oct 2021.

Thank you very much!!

Just only one more thing, pls recolor pirates because of his fear ability!

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Tavern Dweller
posted October 18, 2021 10:34 PM

I've been getting some crashes in certain situations. It seems to be related to the Warden advanced class. I didn't test extensively, but the crash was happening across multiple games and a Warden hero taking his turn was the only common denominator. It would happen in every combat, but would not happen after I removed the Warden from the army.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 19, 2021 07:35 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 08:16, 19 Oct 2021.

Quote:
Just only one more thing, pls recolor pirates because of his fear ability!


Already done it, fam. There are over 5 recolors to show changed abilities, in this release.

Though the verrokster HD effects make it hard to screencap, ho ho.


(This may not be Pirate's final colors)
(The zombie actually hasn't got changes abilities for now, I just didn't like the "dead hoe" comical tone of the original)

Quote:
I've been getting some crashes in certain situations. It seems to be related to the Warden advanced class. I didn't test extensively, but the crash was happening across multiple games and a Warden hero taking his turn was the only common denominator. It would happen in every combat, but would not happen after I removed the Warden from the army.


I don't think I have introduced any bug in this respect, but if it is confirmed the Warden class is unstable, I could switch the bonus with something else (something from another advanced class, such as General)
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