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| Thread: Bron: The most unique hero? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 24, 2023 07:07 PM |
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It's not faulty reasoning - you can just ban a couple things more in tournament games then.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted January 24, 2023 07:17 PM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 19:21, 24 Jan 2023.
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It *is* faulty reasoning since changes should be made with the sight of improving the game, not ruining it more.
จจ*
Even as it pains to admit it, though, even Bron is unbalanced. Not from the point of view that it is OP in the general game (Fortress isn't strong enough for that), but rather than once you have Fortress its either him or Tazar, all other heroes are handicapping yourself. Heroes should have more consistent power/utility levels. (making lvl4 specialists start with a few of those creatures replacing the level 3 would help with that)
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Never changing = never improving
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 24, 2023 08:06 PM |
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You can't balance the game anyway, so making it more interesting would be quite an improvement.
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ArdentWyrm
Famous Hero
King of the Elder Dragons
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posted January 24, 2023 10:14 PM |
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OK, Maybe I will start a maximum-creature-in-starting-army-tier poll.
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Torment is blinding. It lies. Its pollution steals my sense. It promises: destroy everything and the pain will cease.
- Kralkatorrik
https://dragcave.net/user/ArdentWyrm
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gnollking
Supreme Hero
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posted January 25, 2023 04:11 AM |
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JollyJoker said:
You can't balance the game anyway
what a sad opinion
the pre-game bidding for faction and color is a pretty good solution for any imbalance in a template imo, but to say that there is no way to balance the game (which I take as having fair chances for both players to win the game) is quite ignorant
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted January 25, 2023 06:52 AM |
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Edited by heymlich at 12:19, 26 Jan 2023.
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JollyJoker said:
but to say that there is no way to balance the game (which I take as having fair chances for both players to win the game) is quite ignorant
But I think he is right.
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Drakon-Deus 
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted January 25, 2023 07:06 AM |
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heymlich said:
Drakon-Deus said:
Although I understand why there is no Gremlin specialist. 
Because Tower herroes have to be snowty? Honestly, if the Ranger class was with tower, I wouldn't pick a gremlin specialist over Mephala or Kyrre. But as it is, a Gremlin specialist would far outclass any other tower hero.
Because you could upgrade three stacks of Gremlins to shooters on day 1.
I agree with you that Tower has bad heroes.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted January 26, 2023 01:42 AM |
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To be honest the "level 1 creature specialists are op" isn't something that would often happen on base game, since they only had about 2 stacks on average. HotA introduced this problem by having all stacks have 100% chance to spawn and leaving it at three.
If level 1 specialists only had 1-2 stacks of level 1 creatures (as it was probabilistically intended) there would be no problem
And yes the game can be balanced but even if "perfect balance" is impossible it is better some balance than no balance at all.
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Never changing = never improving
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted January 26, 2023 02:33 AM |
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NimoStar said:
To be honest the "level 1 creature specialists are op" isn't something that would often happen on base game...
That is because most lvl 1 creatures are crap. If there was a Gremlin specialist or a Centaur specialist, they would be OP.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted January 26, 2023 03:34 AM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 03:34, 26 Jan 2023.
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heymlich said:
That is because most lvl 1 creatures are crap. If there was a Gremlin specialist or a Centaur specialist, they would be OP.
Not at all if they came with the same army as other heroes...
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Never changing = never improving
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted January 26, 2023 04:59 AM |
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It doesn't matter, you will still get enough of them. The whole point is the +1 speed, not the numbers.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 26, 2023 08:29 AM |
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NimoStar said:
And yes the game can be balanced but even if "perfect balance" is impossible it is better some balance than no balance at all.
That sentence makes no sense whatsoever.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted January 26, 2023 10:54 AM |
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Do you get me if I say I would pick Corkes over Tark for any campaign or giant scenario?
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted January 26, 2023 11:19 AM |
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bloodsucker said:
Do you get me if I say I would pick Corkes over Tark for any campaign or giant scenario?
I get you.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted January 26, 2023 01:56 PM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 13:57, 26 Jan 2023.
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Quote:
It doesn't matter, you will still get enough of them. The whole point is the +1 speed, not the numbers.
Press X to doubt. Even with +1 speed Gremlins would still be one of the slowest creatures.
Quote:
That sentence makes no sense whatsoever.
You make no sense whatsoever.
One thing is having Earth Magic be different from the others.
Another would be having 80 spells in Earth Magic and just 8 spell in Fire, Water.
One thing is to have Confluc be a better town by a little, another is to have free Phoenix with every starting hero.
There are degrees of imbalance. It's better to minimize imbalance than to maximize it.
As I said, "it's not perfectly balanced so imbalance it even more" is a thought process rotten to the core.
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Never changing = never improving
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 26, 2023 03:36 PM |
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That's what I said, nonsense.
You can take every situation there is, every aspect of the game, and consider whether there is an imbalance or not. For example, because this is relevant for the point here: does it make a difference, when setting up the game, whether you pick "random hero" or pick a specific one? The answer is obviously yes. Is there a big imbalance involved (as opposed to "not perfectly balanced")? Obviously yes again - picking "random hero" might get you Rosic or Merist or Tiva or basically ANY Witch when playing Fortress, while PICKING a hero will allow you to get Tazar, and even if he's banished you can pick Alkin or Bron or Drakon and will be WAY better off. And you want to tell me that equipping Broghild (Armorer and SCOUTING) with one (or in this case even 2) Wyvern would imbalance it EVEN MORE?
On the contrary - it would offer another option to consider AND would make Broghild a nice secondary hero to get at that.
For something to be unbalancing there must be a balance first. When there is a general imbalance you can only make it more imbalanced by making what is too good even better and/or what is already bad even worse.
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gnollking
Supreme Hero
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posted January 26, 2023 06:01 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
And you want to tell me that equipping Broghild (Armorer and SCOUTING) with one (or in this case even 2) Wyvern would imbalance it EVEN MORE?
Broghild is a beast in one-hero templates, which have been really popular for the past year or so. Scouting is invaluable there. Yeah, two wyverns would be crazy.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 26, 2023 06:20 PM |
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You can just ban her in that template, as you ban other stuff. But I'm sure, you'd cope. Shiva and a couple of Rocs would probably help.
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gnollking
Supreme Hero
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posted January 26, 2023 08:50 PM |
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Let's just say I'm very glad you're not in a position to implement these ideas . Also, what Nimo said makes perfect sense. When you make changes, making sure to minimize any balancing concerns is the most important thing for pretty much all game devs. To just say, "let the players ban what they want if it's too op" and add whatever you want into the game is terrible.
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purerogue
Known Hero
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posted January 26, 2023 08:58 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
Shiva and a couple of Rocs would probably help.
that's what he said
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