|
| Thread: Best level 1 H3C creatures | |
|
Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
|
posted August 10, 2023 12:46 PM |
|
|
Poll Question:
Best level 1 H3C creatures
Welcome friends!
All started Are Golems good? - thread, and Thecastrated commented level 3 creatures.. I pondered the best creatures, so I ask you on the poll.. And this thread services other players.. What? An example twitch player showed the best creatures, but the only one opinion.. This the poll gives summary  We trust in the majority, right?  But you can say something here.. Later on level 2, etc
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach
|
|
Hourglass
Supreme Hero
|
posted August 11, 2023 12:45 AM |
|
|
I think there are many ways how one could argue about this, but on paper, Centaur Captains look to be the strongest. They have really good stats, and especially their speed gives them a massive advantage against many creatures you come up in the early stages of the game.
Then again, one could argue Skeletons being the best, because they're viable in every stage of the game, and many times end up being the strongest stack that undead heroes can muster to the battefield.
Master gremlins are also very good units due their shooting ability. Keep them safe and many enemies will fall without you burning even a single one-stack. However, on the other hand there are many fights that cause issues for the early gremlin stacks, such as other shooters and fast creatures, especially those that like to roll good morale.
Hard to see how the rest of the creatures could be called being the best. Sprites can cheese certain battles which is amazing, but the losses are massive whenever they're taking hits. Interestingly, the no retaliation protects them to some extend, but can be somewhat anti-synergistic for the rest of the faction, as it would be very convenient to take off the retal from enemy creature with a fast unit.
I think the worst are the Imp/familiar line. They're quite fragile, and the ability won't do much during the game.
|
|
Rimgrabber
Promising
Famous Hero
Voice in Gelu's Head
|
|
posted August 11, 2023 05:58 AM |
|
|
Pikemen/Halberdiers: All around above average level 1 unit that looks cool in theory as an early/mid-game power stack but you will probably never use them as anything more than meat shields for your archers since their growth is fairly limited and there's no Pikeman specialist.
Centaurs/Centaur Captains: In terms of stats easily the best level 1 unit. The question is, why are you spending the wood and turns to upgrade them instead of getting your grand elves and rushing to build dragons? Even if you get an extra turn to upgrade I honestly think the dwarf upgrade is a better investment for the mid-late game. So in practice, Centaurs are pretty good early game units but fall off very quickly.
Gremlins/Master Gremlins: In practice Master Gremlins are probably the level 1 creature you'll get the most use out of early game since they're the only level 1 shooter, gargoyles are mid, and golems are slow. The AI really really hates them though and they will be instantly vaporized by enemy towers and shooters.
Imps/Familars: Literally useless unless you're throwing them in the skeleton pit. I guess Ignatius is popular for Inferno players because 100 Familiars on day one is kind of good early game, but they're still hands down the worst unit in the game except for like... peasants...
Skeletons/Skeleton Warriors: In practice these obviously reign supreme over the other level 1 creatures. If we're ranking these out of in-game context then Skeletons look pretty mediocre in a vaccuum, but in actual gameplay the only instance where you're going to be using Skeletons is if you're playing as Necropolis, in which case you are going to quickly and easily amass hundreds of them. Even in HotA with the Necromancy nerf Skeletons are the only level 1 creature that is useful throughout every stage of the game. The biggest point against them is that they're slow and it doesn't make sense to ever upgrade them since you'll only get 2/3rds as many from Necromancy.
Troglodytes/Infernal Troglodytes: Pretty uninspiring unit but I guess you can get an early game power stack with them using Shakti. Good for like the first week or two and then dead weight afterwards. I've noticed the AI also hates them for some reason so good luck making that power stack last.
Goblins/Hobgoblins: Imagine Imps that could actually deal a lot of damage early game and you have Goblins. Hobgoblins are really fast and you'll want to be upgrading them so that you can get Wolf Raiders. Another big point in favor of Hobgoblins over other tier 1 early game power stacks is that if you're using them you probably picked Gretchin as your Hero, which means your creatures are dealing +32% damage from basic offense and 4 attack right out the gate. If I did the math right. Offense and Armorer boosts are applied before the attack/defense calculation right? So 4 attack = a 20% boost to 110% of the Hobgoblin's damage? I digress, the point stands either way. Hobgoblins are cool.
Gnolls/Gnoll Maraders: Similarly to the Hobgoblins, early game gnoll power stacks benefit a lot from the fact that if you're using them then Drakon is probably your hero. Unfortunately, since you only use these tier 1 power stacks for a few fights, preserving them isn't super important which means the defense/armorer boosts aren't as helpful as attack/offense boosts. Although starting with leadership is also nice and Gnoll Maraders have pretty decent stats for a level 1 creature. The thing is, upgrading them isn't as useful as upgrading the Goblins since you don't need to do it for your build path. Overall, they're in a similar boat to the Goblins but not quite as good in practice for the above reasons.
Pixie/Sprite: If you aren't playing HotA, you could honestly make a case for the Sprites being better than Skeletons because of their ability to easily cheese most early game fights. However since HotA nerfed them so hard by making you build a magic university first, you aren't going to use them very often.
Nymph/Oceanid: You didn't make them an option but there's not really much to be said about them. Imagine Hobgoblins but better in every single way. Cassiopeia might have 1 less point of attack than Gretchin but her units have higher stats and she starts with Tactics instead of Pathfinder.
If you ranked creatures just by their stats and abilitites, here's how I'd rank them:
1. Sprite
2. Centaur Captain
3. Halberdier
4. Master Gremlin
5. Gnoll Marauder
6. Oceanid
7. Skeleton Warrior
8. Hobgoblin
9. Infernal Troglodyte
10. Familiar
If we're ranking them by overall usefulness in the context of actual gameplay, I'd rank them like this:
1. Skeleton (probably won't be upgraded)
2. Master Gremlin
3. Oceanid
4. Hobgoblin
5. Infernal Troglodyte
6. Gnoll (probably won't be upgraded)
7. Centaur (probably won't be upgraded)
8. Halberdier (probably won't be upgraded)
9. Pixie (probably won't be upgraded)
10. Familiar
Honestly I feel a bit silly ranking Centaurs and Halberdiers so low but again, how often are you actuall going to use them as anything othr than meat shields for your Marksmen or Grand Elves?
____________
|
|
Hourglass
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted August 11, 2023 10:48 AM |
|
|
Rimgrabber said:
Centaurs/Centaur Captains: In terms of stats easily the best level 1 unit. The question is, why are you spending the wood and turns to upgrade them instead of getting your grand elves and rushing to build dragons? Even if you get an extra turn to upgrade I honestly think the dwarf upgrade is a better investment for the mid-late game. So in practice, Centaurs are pretty good early game units but fall off very quickly.
------------
Honestly I feel a bit silly ranking Centaurs and Halberdiers so low but again, how often are you actuall going to use them as anything othr than meat shields for your Marksmen or Grand Elves?
Centaur Captains are actually worth going in the very first turn of the game. You can instantly make your scouts fast with speed 8 creatures, and the Captains are very solid answer against basically anything the game can throw at you during the early turns. I think Rampart has the best match up against early shooters due their speed, but also the fact that they can withstand some beating as well.
Rampart has also notoriously bad build path for the dragons, as you only in theory build the dragon dwelling at the very last day of the week, but that is if you're only building towards it directly, and not upgrading anything eg. Combine that with the very high crystal requirement and the fact that early rampart does very poorly against tier 7 dwelling, it's pretty clear the dragons should simply wait.
|
|
baronus
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted August 11, 2023 06:08 PM |
|
|
|
Is good known that centaur captains because speed. Only stats are near tys same like halberdiers but speed is a big difference. Additionaly centaur is 2hex unit. It gives 1 point more. Im fact its 9 hex speed, halberdiers 5hex. Its fundamental difference.
|
|
FWdC
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted August 14, 2023 01:29 AM |
|
|
Pixies?
In my opinion Pixies are best.
Sprites are less tho, but after playing Ina the Mage you will learn every single aspect there is to know about the game and that might impact the way you think about the game, at least for me it was.
I have to be honest, I mostly play Vidomina Necromancer and hope for a Conflux for all 4 element secundairies.
____________
|
|
Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
|
|
posted August 14, 2023 07:53 AM |
|
|
Best level 1 creatures are easily the centaurs.
Before HotA nerfed Sprites they could be considered powerful in the early game, but still they only have 3 hp, so god forbid they get hit by anything.
|
|
heymlich
Famous Hero
|
|
posted August 14, 2023 05:06 PM |
|
|
|
"Best lvl 1" to me means most useful during week 1. That would be Centaur Captains and Master Gremlins, as both are enough to clear your starting area. Skeletons are a bit spacial, they are bad but hav high numbers. I don't rate Sprites since I hate conflux. Pikemen are reasonable good to protect Marksmen. The rest is trash.
|
|
FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
|
|
posted August 14, 2023 05:19 PM |
|
|
@heymlich
Fake dragon breath - Taking Dragon Cave at Day 1 with Shakti (Heroes 3 Complete, HotA)
Sidenote: I've been actually thinking of replying in this thread, but given how varied maps can be, the starting armies and the different standards by which creatures can and are judged (T1 raw =/= T1 in a context, context which can be wildly different from map to map and so on), as well as my general lack of time, this proved to be a bit too much for me to handle right now.
But hey, in the worst case scenario I'll just make a rough "tierlist". =p
____________
Enshackling time itself, heralds of the Ancients among their heat-depleted land.... Who could they be, who could rally the beings of the East and the North and control the mortals' fate?
|
|
heymlich
Famous Hero
|
|
posted August 14, 2023 11:42 PM |
|
Edited by heymlich at 23:43, 14 Aug 2023.
|
This trick to take caves early on easy settings is very old and will not work on higher difficulties. I only play 200%, so it is meaningless to me.
Master Gremlins can take their native lvl 6 and 7 dwellings on D1, Shakti can't.
|
|
gnollking
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted August 15, 2023 08:50 AM |
|
|
What? Fake breath very much works on 200% and is used a lot.
And to answer the thread's question; there is only one correct answer.
____________
|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
|
posted August 15, 2023 10:58 AM |
|
|
heymlich said:
...
Master Gremlins can take their native lvl 6 and 7 dwellings on D1, Shakti can't.
Of course he can 
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
|
Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
|
|
posted August 15, 2023 02:50 PM |
|
|
Ok
Think about 1 vs 1, or 1000 vs 1000.. So level 1 specialists are dangerous Imp & Familiar, Skeleton & S. Warrior, Troglodyte & I. Troglodyte, Goblin & Hobgoblin and Gnoll & Gnoll Marauder.. Why not Pikemen, Centaurs, and Pixies? Over-OP than current specialists, I think those are banned.. And then I know Pikemen, Centaurs and Pixies, but I must to choose one.. I love Pixies, when I can reach legion creatures are Centaurs, Gremlins, Imps, Skeletons and Pixies, so I haven't a problem, esp. Skeletons are thousands.. Ok I vote a Pixie & Sprite.. One thing, I forgot human player, if I kept the same strategy, so legion.. I'm thinking Centaurs and Pixies, but I talk already second times about Pixies mean winner.. I can't do legion Pikemen, etc How?  Maybe slow.. Rarely neutral Pikemen, and AIs that against neutral will pay my Pikemen, etc
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach
|
|
gatecrasher
Famous Hero
|
|
posted August 15, 2023 03:13 PM |
|
|
heymlich said:
Skeletons are a bit spacial, they are bad but hav high numbers.
Not really bad. Slow, that's all. Highest Attack/Defense rating of all lvl1 units!
|
|
Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
|
|
posted August 20, 2023 12:02 PM |
|
|
Rimgrabber said it best, there's an important difference between the best in stats and the best in a practical game.
____________
Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
|
|
FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
|
|
posted September 02, 2023 02:35 PM |
|
|
I agree, more or less what Rimgrabber said.
____________
Enshackling time itself, heralds of the Ancients among their heat-depleted land.... Who could they be, who could rally the beings of the East and the North and control the mortals' fate?
|
| |
|
|
