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| Thread: Best level 6 H3C creatures |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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sirironfist
Known Hero
King of the ogres
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posted September 26, 2023 07:14 PM |
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I'd be curious about how much the jousting bonus really increases champion damage in an average fight and if that makes their damage output actually higher than that of the dread knight or the naga queen. Has anyone seen any good calculations on this?
Dread knight's death blow doubles only base damage, the lazynet wiki says "bonuses from Offense, Luck or attack-defense difference are not doubled." It doesn't say anything like this about jousting, so I am guessing it increases damage including bonuses by 5%.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted September 26, 2023 08:58 PM |
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Champions can be quite insane with Haste or (Loynis) Prayer. Or with a few speed artifacts or under Sir Mullichs command.
I'm not sure if Dread Knights, Naga Queens or Champions does the highest amount of damage in average, but I'm guessing Dread Knights, they also have 18 attack, the others only have 16.
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted September 27, 2023 02:00 AM |
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Edited by heymlich at 02:03, 27 Sep 2023.
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NimoStar said:
But regular Wyverns are faster than Naga, thus they can wait ..
That's why I said Naga Queens. Yes, I'm comparing an upgraded version to an unupgraded one. Naga Queens are not much stronger than normal Nagas, but they have 7 speed, same as wyvern. It is not rare - it is actually a very common thing, that the opponent has some wyvern he got from hives, and is unable to upgrade them.
It is not a fair comparision, but when has life been fair?  I didn't mean much by this, I just wanted to point out how terrible wyvern are. I knew they are bad but it surprised me they are that bad when it happened to me.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted September 27, 2023 05:24 AM |
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Remember pros for Wyverns.. A larger good example in a HotA.. My Elite taught that Tower for Angels or Gems, not Wyverns, because of SoD.. No matter now.. Ok..
Loynis? Expert Prayer for 1-5, but you meant Speed. No important.. A little matter! Ok remember Knight (hero) has 2 att/def.. And Death Knight (hero) has 1 att and 2 def.. But Death Knights developing power and knowledge.. Knights for Att and Def.. No important how do count a percent.. But ok..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted September 27, 2023 05:50 AM |
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And flying creatures.. Castle has Griffins and Angels, ok? So Flies and Wyverns to Fortress.. Without a flying creature is a very poor and mistake, thus your opponent demolishes your Catapult, and you've mandatory answers are Teleport, Earthquake and Berserk. But no sense! Elite explained and showed how do enemy with swarm Unicorns, etc vs your hero with M. Gremlins, Gargoyles, Golems, Magi and then 3 Giants.. You got a Giant bonus plus you built those troops in a few weeks.. And enemy lost all, thus Catapult, lacked Pegasi and Spell power  So Fortress is better than Stronghold.. When Teleport, etc No important! Stronghold or Dungeon are strong.. Even if main strategy is removing/killing flying units like you think to first checkmate in chess, not eating pieces.. It's a rule!
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted September 27, 2023 03:15 PM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 15:18, 27 Sep 2023.
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heymlich said:
NimoStar said:
But regular Wyverns are faster than Naga, thus they can wait ..
That's why I said Naga Queens. Yes, I'm comparing an upgraded version to an unupgraded one. Naga Queens are not much stronger than normal Nagas, but they have 7 speed, same as wyvern. It is not rare - it is actually a very common thing, that the opponent has some wyvern he got from hives, and is unable to upgrade them.
It is not a fair comparision, but when has life been fair? I didn't mean much by this, I just wanted to point out how terrible wyvern are. I knew they are bad but it surprised me they are that bad when it happened to me.
Yes, they are bad for level 6. Actually a great amount of why they are bad are their abysmal att/def stacks.
I don't mean that Wyverns are good in general. Only in the specific circumstance of getting them early as fortress and getting more from hives.
Angels are level 7 and OP even for that so not a fair comparison. Wyverns should be more compared to lvl 1-4 creatures you get early in the game. In that context, they are pretty spectacular.
Also another thing, your Fortress might hero will have much better battle stats than a comparable Tower hero.
In fact other than being expensive without hota this is the only weakness I think of tower - their hero classes have terrible stat progression. Tho they can also overcompensate for that with Artifact Merchant (= more money)
Tower has the highest late game potential of all towns and Naga Queens only reinforce that point.
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Never changing = never improving
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted September 27, 2023 08:39 PM |
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OhforfSake said:
Under what conditions did you experience this, heymlich?
I don't remember, that was years ago. I was just shocked how bad they are and I tested it - with equal conditions. Probably on grass, but I'm not sure about that.
Please note that I tested with 1 Naga Queen vs x Wyvern. That doesn't mean 100 NQ will beat 500 wyvern, since low numbers generally favor the stronger unit.
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LordCameron
Known Hero
Veteran of the Succession Wars
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posted September 28, 2023 09:33 PM |
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heymlich said:
Please note that I tested with 1 Naga Queen vs x Wyvern. That doesn't mean 100 NQ will beat 500 wyvern, since low numbers generally favor the stronger unit.
Lanchester Square Law
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted September 29, 2023 10:26 AM |
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Tower wins by artifact merchant? Can someone like Salamander weight in here because I seldom build it
NimoStar said:
heymlich said:
NimoStar said:
But regular Wyverns are faster than Naga, thus they can wait ..
That's why I said Naga Queens. Yes, I'm comparing an upgraded version to an unupgraded one. Naga Queens are not much stronger than normal Nagas, but they have 7 speed, same as wyvern. It is not rare - it is actually a very common thing, that the opponent has some wyvern he got from hives, and is unable to upgrade them.
It is not a fair comparision, but when has life been fair? I didn't mean much by this, I just wanted to point out how terrible wyvern are. I knew they are bad but it surprised me they are that bad when it happened to me.
Yes, they are bad for level 6. Actually a great amount of why they are bad are their abysmal att/def stacks.
I don't mean that Wyverns are good in general. Only in the specific circumstance of getting them early as fortress and getting more from hives.
Angels are level 7 and OP even for that so not a fair comparison. Wyverns should be more compared to lvl 1-4 creatures you get early in the game. In that context, they are pretty spectacular.
Also another thing, your Fortress might hero will have much better battle stats than a comparable Tower hero.
In fact other than being expensive without hota this is the only weakness I think of tower - their hero classes have terrible stat progression. Tho they can also overcompensate for that with Artifact Merchant (= more money)
Tower has the highest late game potential of all towns and Naga Queens only reinforce that point.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted September 29, 2023 10:29 AM |
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Artifact Merchant is usually not worth buying from until you have at least 3-5 towns, besides you usually get plenty of artifacts from the map.
Only if you see something extraordinary like movement artifacts or a piece of a missing combo artifact, it is worth investing in, but you won't know until you buy it or take a town where it's already build.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted September 29, 2023 10:30 AM |
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thecastrated said:
Tower wins by artifact merchant? Can someone like Salamander weight in here because I seldom build it
I was speaking very late game options potential not typical "hota jesus cross" multiplayer. For example Artifact Merchants was massively buffed in the expansions (and hota) due to all the added combination artifacts. You can even build Cloak of the Undead King with Artifact Merchants alone.
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Never changing = never improving
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted September 29, 2023 10:58 AM |
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NimoStar said:
thecastrated said:
Tower wins by artifact merchant? Can someone like Salamander weight in here because I seldom build it
I was speaking very late game options potential not typical "hota jesus cross" multiplayer. For example Artifact Merchants was massively buffed in the expansions (and hota) due to all the added combination artifacts. You can even build Cloak of the Undead King with Artifact Merchants alone.
It is some time I played H3 but many maps also have a building called artifact merchants by itself? And does the trading price decrease when you build intown artifact merchant with an external standalone artifact merchant
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted September 29, 2023 11:08 AM |
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The map version is "black market", it doesn't interact with In-town Artifact Merchant. It is much cheaper by default.
The town building gets new artifacts every month. While the map version never gets new artifacts.
Actually, the unlimited artifacts thing is the main reason the Artifact merchant for the town is OP in long games. This goes especially if your opponent doesn't have access to one or if you go first, allowing you to buy every artifact (which are shared amongst players).
https://heroes.thelazy.net/index.php/Black_Market
https://heroes.thelazy.net/index.php/Artifact_merchants
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Never changing = never improving
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted September 29, 2023 01:23 PM |
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Artifact in artifact merchant
NimoStar said:
Yes, they are bad for level 6. Actually a great amount of why they are bad are their abysmal att/def stacks.
I don't mean that Wyverns are good in general. Only in the specific circumstance of getting them early as fortress and getting more from hives.
Angels are level 7 and OP even for that so not a fair comparison. Wyverns should be more compared to lvl 1-4 creatures you get early in the game. In that context, they are pretty spectacular.
Also another thing, your Fortress might hero will have much better battle stats than a comparable Tower hero.
In fact other than being expensive without hota this is the only weakness I think of tower - their hero classes have terrible stat progression. Tho they can also overcompensate for that with Artifact Merchant (= more money)
Tower has the highest late game potential of all towns and Naga Queens only reinforce that point.
Tower with this Artifact merchant cost 10000. Now you have black market in many or most maps. How will having an Aritifact Merchant make you more money when you can also sell at black market?
Besides you say at late stage of the game. In late stage of the game it is usually not worth it to spend 10000 on Artifact merchant plus 10000 +for a relic which gives mere +2 attack and +2 Def on top of whatever artifacts you already have
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted September 29, 2023 07:40 PM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 19:41, 29 Sep 2023.
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It seems to me you have no idea what those things are actually worth. 10000 gold will only get you 2 titans. +2 atk and def for your whole late game army can be worth as 10 titans or more. Heroes 3 is not a resource scarce title so with a single town and capitol you already run a surplus.
Plus you will buy in Artifact Merchant with surplus secondary resources. In market you will only get a small % of gold. But buying in artifact merchant secondary resources are taken at 100% value.
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Never changing = never improving
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted September 29, 2023 08:25 PM |
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NimoStar said:
It seems to me you have no idea what those things are actually worth. 10000 gold will only get you 2 titans. +2 atk and def for your whole late game army can be worth as 10 titans or more. Heroes 3 is not a resource scarce title so with a single town and capitol you already run a surplus.
Plus you will buy in Artifact Merchant with surplus secondary resources. In market you will only get a small % of gold. But buying in artifact merchant secondary resources are taken at 100% value.
We are talking about different things then. In MP your resources are usually taxed to the max. even if its week 5 I rather have 2 extra titans.
And it's more than 2 titans. It's the AM plus the artifact which I recall is expensive for the good ones. And it HAS to be the good ones that you buy since by late game you have the basic artifacts already.
So You said AM is tower's game changer via money? how?
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted September 30, 2023 05:08 AM |
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I told you. This isn't "medium random map HotA creature bank meta MP scenario". Week 5 is not extreme late game. Week 8+ at the very least. This is speaking of long games, XL+ maps, etc.
Your resources will not be taxed, trust me.
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Never changing = never improving
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted September 30, 2023 07:07 AM |
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Edited by heymlich at 07:08, 30 Sep 2023.
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thecastrated said:
Tower wins by artifact merchant?
If you play some stupid map that makes you run back and forth and the game takes like 3 years, then with Artifact Merchant you get to complete all the cool combo artifacts (it refreshes on the first day of every month). That's probably what he meant.
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted September 30, 2023 10:13 AM |
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heymlich said:
thecastrated said:
Tower wins by artifact merchant?
If you play some stupid map that makes you run back and forth and the game takes like 3 years, then with Artifact Merchant you get to complete all the cool combo artifacts (it refreshes on the first day of every month). That's probably what he meant.
Not only this. Initially he says tower with AM wins by more money. Later after my post he says slight stats is going to be better than more Titans. Then later he says it’s resource rich meaning you are not going to lack money.
And he main point was enquiring how tower wins by AM
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted September 30, 2023 05:29 PM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 17:30, 30 Sep 2023.
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First off, if you want to communicate in English and are not fluent, use a translator at least
Wdell, you seem to be accusing me of "moving the goalposts", which I never did. Right at the begginning I said about combo artifacts and long games.
Playing some (actually stupid) JC random template for the 1000th time for a short online game which is just a clone of another 100000 online games on JC on HotA, is not a "long game"
Take notice that H3, as admitted by lead game designer, was never meant to be "competitive online game" (which didn't practically exist) or even "balanced", but rather for custom and casual play.
Therefore everything applies, etc.
Getting +3 ATK (not even +2/+2) is indeed better than getting 2 titans if your army is big enough. Titans scale linearly while +3 ATK is a force multiplier. So 28 or 30 titans will not make a difference, while +3 ATK will, since it is a % boost that ends up being more significant.
Furthermore, on the economic front, I already said you can get artifacts with secondary resources directly in a lossless manner, while selling them on the market to recruit creatures is much more inefficient. And furthermore, in a weekly stable state, you should not lack any gold for weekly recruiting, so any treasure etc. has to go into buying non creature things.
It depends on proportions and statistics which I don't expect you to understand given your displayed cognitive ability, but there goes the explanation anyways.
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Never changing = never improving
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