|
| Thread: Is there any information on discarded creatures | |
|
AirikrStrife
Hired Hero
|
posted February 02, 2024 08:39 PM |
|
|
Is there any information on discarded creatures
In this interview http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=41078&PID=1466803#focus
Gregory Fulton briefly mentions having wanted to replace halflings for wizard/tower, and choosing between gremlins and red caps.
Are there any known information/interviews about other creatures or concepts that were on the sketch board?
|
|
Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
|
|
posted February 02, 2024 10:45 PM |
|
|
Huh, what are Red Caps?
It would be interesting if HotA could add them as neutral units, in the future...
|
|
AirikrStrife
Hired Hero
|
|
posted February 02, 2024 11:31 PM |
|
|
Phoenix4ever said:
Huh, what are Red Caps?
It would be interesting if HotA could add them as neutral units, in the future...
red caps is some goblin like folklore creature,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redcap
It does appear in some DnD style games, form what I've googled, but I actually never seen one in games myself
|
|
Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
|
|
posted February 02, 2024 11:49 PM |
|
|
|
Yeah I also googled them a bit, they seem kinda evil, with them dipping their hats in the blood of their enemies. So I don't really see how they could belong in a good faction, such as Tower, on the other hand gremlins, gargoyles and nagas does'nt seem very "good" either...
|
|
AirikrStrife
Hired Hero
|
|
posted February 03, 2024 12:23 AM |
|
|
Phoenix4ever said:
Yeah I also googled them a bit, they seem kinda evil, with them dipping their hats in the blood of their enemies. So I don't really see how they could belong in a good faction, such as Tower, on the other hand gremlins, gargoyles and nagas does'nt seem very "good" either...
Yeah I also don't see Red caps as a good fit for wizard/tower. Academy is probably the only faction ubisoft did better than NWC, and it's pretty clear from the H2 wizard being almost completely revamped for H3 that it took some time to find a clear identity for a faction based around wizards.
But learning about how red caps were almost included in the game, I got curious if there were other creatures cut at different stages of forming the factions, but I wasn't able to find anything so I came here to ask
|
|
Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
|
|
posted February 03, 2024 08:07 AM |
|
|
Yeah I don't know about other cut creatures, but I still see potential for some new neutrals, for example:
* Vori Elf (Freezing arrows, 20% chance.)
* Dark Elf (Poison arrows, 20% chance.)
* Gnome
* Kobold
* Giant Rat (Causes disease.)
* Werewolf (Attacks twice, if it kills a creature, like Ayssids in HotA.)
* Nightmare (Has no retaliation and causes fear like Azure Dragons or attacks causes Sorrow.)
* Mermaid (Can charm/hypnotize.)
* Sea Monster
* Kraken
* Frost/Ice Dragon (Breath weapon with ability to freeze enemies. Immune to Ice Bolt and Frost Ring.)
* Dracolich (Undead. Applies negative spells such as Slow, Curse, Weakness, Misfortune and Sorrow.)
* Probably some more I'm forgetting right now.
|
|
Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
|
|
posted February 03, 2024 08:21 AM |
|
|
AirikrStrife said:
red caps is some goblin like folklore creature,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redcap
It does appear in some DnD style games, form what I've googled, but I actually never seen one in games myself
I know of them from Harry Potter (books only), even there they're just mentioned as part of the wizard world and don't play a role in the story, but I think I would have liked them in the Tower line up.
Great list, Phoenix. 
____________
Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
|
|
Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
|
|
posted February 03, 2024 08:29 AM |
|
|
|
Thanks DD.
|
|
AirikrStrife
Hired Hero
|
|
posted February 03, 2024 02:19 PM |
|
|
Drakon-Deus said:
AirikrStrife said:
red caps is some goblin like folklore creature,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redcap
It does appear in some DnD style games, form what I've googled, but I actually never seen one in games myself
I know of them from Harry Potter (books only), even there they're just mentioned as part of the wizard world and don't play a role in the story, but I think I would have liked them in the Tower line up.
Great list, Phoenix.
that's right, I think professor Lupin used one in the third book.
@phoenix, yeah there are for sure many possibilities that could have been implemented within the games, without even making major changes to existing lore. That's why I started another thread about possible lore based factions.
I find it fascinating how on one end basically one part of the HoMM team just designs factions, and then another part creatures lore and stories around it. Like how Regna was intorduced in the succession wars, later appearing briefly in HoMM3 and MM7 before being ifnaly visited in MM8. And then becoming a faction in a mod. It's overall pretty cool, and there are other examples like that for example Karigor and Vori.
That's why I also started this thread to see if people knew anything about other creatures, tropes or similar that were considered on the drawing board for the game.
|
|
FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
|
|
posted February 03, 2024 03:06 PM |
|
|
@AirikrStrife
Will-o-wisp as a Fortress creature (T3 I think).
Otherwise, I'm afraid there might actually not be much on this. Unless you'd ask Gregory Fulton directly, but there's no guarantee he remembers the details all too well or anything (and there was also no other creature scrapped post-modeling, save for the Lobstrosity).
@Phoenix4ever
Those are generally nice propositions, whether as neutrals or as part of factions. Some comments, however (mostly on the creatures themselves):
Quote:
* Vori Elf (Freezing arrows, 20% chance.)
* Dark Elf (Poison arrows, 20% chance.)
I strongly disagree with giving them bows for multiple reasons. And then, the whole Tolkien trinity of elves and the ljosalfar angle that stems from it (and from other aspects like Norse underrepresentation in the original game) would exclude the usage of an "ice" ability on a Vori "light elf" (because that's pretty much what they really represent at the end of the day).
Quote:
* Frost/Ice Dragon
Those are the Azure Dragons.
Quote:
* Dracolich
Sounds cool, but Bone and Ghost Dragons pretty much fill that trope, even if they're not all that strong.
____________
Enshackling time itself, heralds of the Ancients among their heat-depleted land.... Who could they be, who could rally the beings of the East and the North and control the mortals' fate?
|
|
AirikrStrife
Hired Hero
|
|
posted February 03, 2024 05:11 PM |
|
|
@firepaladin
thank you for sharing. The will-o-wisp design is really cool and would've made a great addition to foretress, especially showing off the witch angle which otherwise feels completely missing in the existing rooster.
I agree about elves being typecasted as archers are a huge misunderstanding. It only happened because Legolas, and he isn't even representative of the typical elf in tolkiens legendarium, and then DnD wanting to ferment classes and choosing elves as an archer class, partially based on the (unrealistic) trope that archery would be a weapon for women and physically weaker races.
|
|
avatar
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted February 03, 2024 05:57 PM |
|
|
Elf aristocrat. Can be seen at one of beta screenshots.
____________
|
|
Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
|
|
posted February 04, 2024 08:57 AM |
|
|
@FirePaladin
You don't like the other two elves being ranged? Well I guess they don't have to be or maybe just one of them.
Why do you call Vori Elves Light Elves?, Vori is a cold and windy continent to the north right?, so another fitting name would perhaps be Frost Elves?
There was also an unexplored story about The Sword Of Frost...
Nope, Frost/Ice Dragon would be different from Azure Dragon and Dracolich would be different from Ghost Dragon.
Yes, there is a lack of norse mythology and ice abilities, in fact I have designed my very own nordic faction with both...
Btw. I think that green skull were supposed to be the gorgon, before gorgons were designed. A skull now displays when using Mighty Gorgons Death Stare ability.
|
|
FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
|
|
posted February 04, 2024 03:03 PM |
|
|
@AirikrStrife
I absolutely agree, and the witch thing is a really good observation, Fortress should have had more of that.
@avatar
Nice one, though I'd think of it as more of a scrapped design than creature.
@Phoenix4ever
That's not what I meant. They can be ranged, just not using bows. In DoR, for example, we gave the Snow Elves crystal orbs (which are an elven invention in MM).
Because they are practically the ljosalfar (light elves), lore and thematic wise (keep in mind that these are also Norse). There is also a parallel with Tolkien's Vanyar, as well DnD's "high elf" (who are more spiritual, just like the ljosalfar are). If you want a more concise and MM-tied explanation, they are basically "pure", the original and highest elves who also happen to live in a place fit for a Norse faction, while the wood elves of AvLee are renegades who have lost some of their inheritance. Dark elves have went even farther and have turned to "darker" kinds of magics (but it's a whole other subject in itself).
Not only, but Vori actually used to be a tropical paradise before SoF froze it over (notice that it's found on the equator of the planet). And they also hate the winter climate and all that as a result.
There is enough that is unexplored with the Snow Elves, not just the Sword of Frost.
Quote:
Nope, Frost/Ice Dragon would be different from Azure Dragon and Dracolich would be different from Ghost Dragon.
I can see the Dracolich work as more of a zombie dragon, but I don't see how the NWC devs would have added an Ice Dragon when they have already added the Azure Dragon (of course, an ice dragon is made out of ice, but the azure dragon fills in its storytelling purposes already). Just a bit of an awkward thing, and Azure Dragons are already native to Vori and breathe ice (and also have a nice tie-in with Chinese stuff as do White Tigers, which is perfect for that secondary influence in an otherwise Norse Vori faction - just like Rampart has a bit of an East-Asian flair itself).
Well, Palace in DoR is basically just that. =p
(Although only 1-2 creatures have an ice ability)
However, that doesn't mean that I wouldn't be curious to hear your own idea.
Gregory Fulton confirmed that it was a Will-o-Wisp, and that it got scrapped because they could not make it look how they wanted it to (I think due to the green haze having no transparency, if I'm not wrong). The Gorgon was always to be in the lineup, but I believe that in earlier versions of it they used to be lower tier (which is why I am unsure about the wisp's original level, since to my knowledge the Gorgon was a T3 at first).
____________
Enshackling time itself, heralds of the Ancients among their heat-depleted land.... Who could they be, who could rally the beings of the East and the North and control the mortals' fate?
|
| |
|
|
