| Do you approve of abortion? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV |
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Salamandre
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posted January 10, 2026 04:56 AM |
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JollyJoker said:
Just leave it to THEM, it's none of your business, not the embryo, not the fetus.
Wrong, as long as abortion is subsidized by tax payer, which is me among others. So it IS my business to question anything about.
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You must not OFFEND people - Jolly Joker
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JollyJoker
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posted January 10, 2026 09:36 AM |
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You can of course question subsidizing something through the taxpayer - but that is another issue. If it is subsidized via medical insurance (which is what you probably mean), it's not different from the question why the taxpayer should subsidize ANY issues that are self-inflicted. Smokers get lung or throat cancer? Own fault. Obese people getting sick? Own fault. Broke a leg while skiing? Own fault.
What makes abortion so special? And why would the tax payer have to pay for yet another child in a public institution after giving him or her to adoption after birth?
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Salamandre
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posted January 10, 2026 01:07 PM |
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We already had this discussion before, abortion is not special. I am against subsidizing any of the illnesses you mentioned as well.
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You must not OFFEND people - Jolly Joker
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JollyJoker
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posted January 10, 2026 01:56 PM |
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So your stance is, everyone can abort whichever way they want, provided they pay for it themselves?
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Salamandre
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posted January 10, 2026 02:57 PM |
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I view the abortion from different perspectives, ethical, moral, sociological and philosophical. So is not a matter of prohibiting, but raising awareness by allowing all those perspectives to be considered and debated. Which the whole issue lacks right now, it is frozen at the simplistic level of "my body my choice".
First, there is the death of an human being. You may do semantic circles around, but at the end of the day, being a fetus is the first step of our development. There are tons of medics which refuse the abortion, for those reasons.
There is a matter of responsibility. You don't get pregnant from thin air, in majority of situations you ignored basic rules of prevention. And here comes the subsidizing problem, if it is free, why would you pay attention, just spend good time because Joe is paying for you. Had it been expensive and on you, then you would have considered the consequences less lightly, so we would have hundreds of abortions and not millions.
There is the demographic problem, we need babies because our elders live much longer than before so the whole retribution system is challenged. This is a very serious issue, of survival. There are thousands of families on the list of adoptions and waiting, they want a baby and can't find one, so can't we find a solution for that ?
Last but not least, there is the mystery of life and of our purpose. So far, we didn't detect life anywhere else, and the universe looks to be infinite. Which suggests that we are the fortunate exception, the 1 in billions of billions, therefore one could say life should be sacred and protected, as an extremely rare phenomenon, from the very beginning to the end, from blossom to death.
There is also the religious aspect, which is already complex and sensible. But I leave that to those concerned. However I don't evacuate it, as there are many things we can't explain or understand. And if they are right - the soul is created at conception, it is just monstrous what we allow to happen.
Even if I'm not religious, I believe soul exists, without this concept I can't explain any of the creations I love and admire.
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You must not OFFEND people - Jolly Joker
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JollyJoker
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posted January 10, 2026 06:02 PM |
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You know what I find strange? Firstly, all your points except the taxpayer points are more or less "mythical" in nature. Questionable ethics and religion. Even the "we need more population" point is nonsense, because you don't need more population, you need more PRODUCTIVE population and you won't get productive population from unwanted children born to single moms out of the economical lower class.
Religion is BS anyway, because if the soul comes with conception, a lot of souls die naturally within the first 3-6 weeks after conception which would be a really bad move from "the higher entity". It's also not true that a born baby or a baby so far developed within a womb that they have good survival chances after a premature birth or a necessary Caesarion due to complications is the same as an embryo or fetus. For reasons iterated a thousand times already it's different.
But the worst point is the "sanctity of life" thing (whether we are or might be the only species or not (the main problem with "wheere are the aliens" is the fact that WE are 100 years into a development that would an observer from another planet lead to the conclusion that our planet might be populated with an intelligent alien species. The same is true the other way round: everything we observe or detect at a specific point in space is a foto of a single moment in time. A signal that would reach us from a planet 10.000 lightyears away would mean, 10.000 years ago someone sent something there. Considering that wwe havce no idea HOW LONG a sufficiently developed species even exist (humans could be bombed back to stone age within the next 100 years or so - or a collison with an asteroid), the window might be very small. So if there was an alien species on a planet in 1000 ly distance, 10.000 years ago, that got extinct 9.000 years ago, we wouldn't know of them).) is the fact that there is NO point in human history - NONE WHATSOEVER - that would suggest, for men in general "sanctity of (human) life would be more than lip service. Women see that different in general, especially because of the faact that they become pregnant and bear children (and may actually die from it).
Therefore it's a bad joke when MEN suddenly discover their conscience and respect of (the unborn) life, as soon as it's about WOMEN want full control about what happens within THEIR body.
A really bad joke.
The taxpayer point is surely worth a discussion, but I don't see why only rich pwople should have the option to abort, especially when the taxpayer pays for so many things (including unwanted and not adopted children).
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Ghost
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Therefore I am
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posted January 10, 2026 06:40 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
*Questionable ethics and religion. Even the "we need more population" point is nonsense, because you don't need more population*
*It's also not true that a born baby or a baby so far developed within a womb that they have good survival chances after a premature birth or a necessary Caesarion*
A very good, JJ
When you know that I know the Bible.. Yes the God urged to reproduction, procreation or breeding (not researching the term now) in the world.. But in paradise, you can't see skyscrapes, do you understand? Yes very few people in paradise.. Maybe million people.. You find in Psalm 37:29 "The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever", if you think about Jehovah's witnesses, but why the Bible said.. So not religion now.. What then? Discrepancy!
And then Caesarean section is a very good answer.. Do you know men search for large pelvis? A good man also knows pelvis types..
Ok keep going..
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