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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Diplo basics 101
Thread: Diplo basics 101 This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
bjorn190
bjorn190


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
posted August 10, 2002 04:05 AM bonus applied.
Edited By: Hexa on 10 Aug 2002

Diplo basics 101

Hi there.

Im guessing some of you have checked out the random basics course by now, so I thought you might be ready for the real power of randoms: diplomacy.

The thing that makes diplomacy powerful is that it can make monsters from the map join you, and since those monsters are very powerful, you accumulate an insanely powerful army on your diplomacy hero if you play it right. This is often banned from randoms, but sometimes its allowed, and then you need to know how to play it well.

The important thing it a game where diplomacy is allowed, is that it is probably going to be the one thing that decides the game. If you play your diplo wrong but everything else right, you are going to lose as soon as your opp gets his first level 5 native joiners, or a level 7 pack. So, you must get your diplomacy up to expert as soon as possible. Always chose it when it comes up and always upgrade it, unless possibly u can take basic earth or air.

IMPORTANT:
Don´t try to get important stacks to join until you have EXPERT diplomacy, unless your opp is attacking and you don´t stand a chance without them. NOTHING good joins until expert.. usually.

So now you have expert diplo, its probably week 2 or 3, and you´re getting a large enough army to make stacks want to flee. Now you are ready for joiners.

Some stacks will join for free, others will run, and some will join for money, the same amount as if you would have bought them in your town.

So.. it is important to find out what the stack would do. There are two ways to do this:
1. Get the visions spell.
2. Get rogues in your army.

Cast the spell, or have the rougues in your army, and then rightclick the monster stack you´re curious about. It will tell you if they want to run, join you, or join for money.

IMPORTANT: If they want to join for money and you dont have enough, they will just flee instead, so NO KILLING THOSE NATIVE LEVEL SEVENS THAT WILL JOIN FOR 30K!! save up.. its worth it.

If you dont find the visions spell or rogues, you´re just going to have to make guesses. When you attack native stacks, it is good to have saved up enough gold to make them join if they want to. That is, if you´re dungeon and about to attack a pack of red dragons, make sure you have at least 50k gold around, or if you are attacking a few reds, make sure you have at least 10k. They can be game-winning joiners.

I myself never attack native stacks in diplogames without prober gold and army, unless I really have no choice.


So you have expert diplo, a nice army and a ton of gold.. now what? Well.. now you manipulate your army to make stuff join better.

Here's how it works, in a nutshell.
Diplomacy makes it more likely that:

1. Monsters will join you for free.
2. Monsters will join you for money.
3. Monsters will run away (avoid fighting).

Each monster has a aggression level, set at the start of the game. You can adjust the range of aggression in the editor, but there's always a random factor, unless the monster is "compliant" or "savage."

When you encounter a monster group, the monsters first decide whether to fight. The depends on your strength, how friendly they are, your diplomacy skill, and whether you have similar creatures in your army.

If they are friendly or ambivalent, they may decide to join you. For normal monsters, 10% of the time they'll join you for free. Every level of diplomacy makes this 10% more likely. Having similar creatures also makes this 10% more likely. Having an army that is mostly similar creatures makes it 20% more likely.

Example: Sir Christian has an army composed exclusively of pikemen, and Expert diplomacy. Normal pikemen and halberdier stacks will join him roughly 60% of the time - if they don't fight.

Diplomacy also allows you to persuade monster stacks to join for money. You always get the full stack, and the price doesn't change. Each level adds 10% chance.

Of the pikemen stacks that Sir Christian encounters, another 30% will offer to join for money, again if they don't fight. Only 10% of them will flee without offering to join. Sir Christian's a really likable guy.

If the creatures are ambivalent, and you turn down the offer to join, they'll fight you. If they're afraid (or impressed by your silver tongue), they'll run away. Diplomacy never makes it more likely they'll fight. If you turn down an offer and get a battle, they would have fought you anyway.

This is for normal, "Aggressive" monsters. If they're set to "Complaint" in the editor, they'll join anyone. If they're "Friendly", they're 30% more likely to join. If they're "Hostile", they're 30% less likely to join - you'll need Expert diplomacy, or similar creatures, to have any chance of them joining for free. If they're "Savage", they won't join anyone.

On random maps, most (possibly all) monsters are set to "hostile", so everything can join you in theory. If you have visions and notice that a stack wont join you or will join you for gold, there is a trick to maybe make them join you for free.

Use a page to carry one of your stacks, and then check again. Sometimes they will join you now, possibly even for free. You can also wait a week and there is a chance that they have changed their mind

The thing is: It´s not over ´til the phat stack joins..  

When you have enough army to kill anything, and maybe even your opp, what you need now is a counter to the berserk spell, and Town portal and Dimension door, but we will leave that subject to the anvanced random strategy thread.

Now go get some joiners!

Edit by hexa; U gone QP hunting Bbjorn? Well another goo dthread .. keep it up




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privatehudson
privatehudson


Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
posted August 10, 2002 04:17 AM

even though I play h4 mostly now that is still relevant and usefull. In H3 what I tended to do was unless they were level 6 or 7 creatures I would place the dip. creatures into base defence so that I could concentrate my actual main army on taking on the enemy and gaining more diplo troops. Thanks for the hints.

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Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted August 10, 2002 01:00 PM

Play a random, get cflux town and look for a hero that has diplo as 2nd skill as main. While progressing also get expert air and intelligence 2nd skills, once you have done that look for grail/build up guild/hit boxes/air book and look for DD&fly spell. Then hit banks(with your joiner army off course)/pick up good arts you can get for free.

Wow now doesnt this sound like a really really interesting game?

Diplo = n00b stuff.
so there

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Hexa
Hexa


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted August 10, 2002 01:32 PM

Quote:
Diplo = n00b stuff.
so there  


Go and tell that to Kuma (u can probably cal him alot of things but NOOB ain't one of them)!@

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If you want to realize your dreams >>> you have to wake up!@

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Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted August 10, 2002 03:38 PM

@Kuma: diplo = n00b stuff.
@hexa: Happy?

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The_pawn
The_pawn


Hired Hero
Limpid Loser
posted August 10, 2002 03:50 PM

another thing to keep in mind

im a gambling man

usually on any map i develop a second hero with exp diplo to be the army carrier to give main full movement at beginning of turn.

the ideal hero for something like this is someone who comes with one skill. like taz ;P
no seriously now maybe thane. he is my favorite actually IF he gets dip. then he can work as scholar and dip and usually i try to get him visions so he can figure who'll fight and who'll be sweet. usually if monsters join for free i just let them join cause they are good for either bulk numbers, sacrificing, skel generating, demon spawning, etc...

anyways that's my 2 cents. great thread...
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Kuma
Kuma


Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
posted August 10, 2002 09:25 PM

To Noob or not to Noob

Hey Stiven. Watch it dude.
One of these days I'm gonna be on holiday in Sweden....

Diplo is so cool.

Good thread Bjorn.
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People used to call me crazy, but now that I'm rich I am excentric.

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andiangelsla...
andiangelslayer


Disgraceful
Famous Hero
posted August 10, 2002 09:51 PM

diplo on rdms? well just save your game time than, it was funny to run over the map collecting monsters with someone like ryland when i started h3, but now? id rather watch woman golfing

but the thread is ok, i think it says all that there is to know about dip

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Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted August 10, 2002 10:58 PM
Edited By: Sir_Stiven on 10 Aug 2002

Women golfing? If you had said women tennis i would have understood you but golfing? man you must be more bored of diplo randoms than i am...

Edit:
@Kuma: just let me know when/where so i know where to look for ya...

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bjorn190
bjorn190


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
posted August 12, 2002 06:48 AM

This is a good thread, I hope more ppl get a chance to read it. And if you read it, it would be cool if u posted comments about it =)

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madmartigan
madmartigan


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
who will never walk alone
posted August 13, 2002 12:58 AM
Edited By: madmartigan on 12 Aug 2002

this thread is be ruels. but diplo is be suc.

eagle eye is be ruelser than diplo, becuz U dont have to build mage guilds

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Kuma
Kuma


Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
posted August 14, 2002 02:54 PM

Look for me? Just look over your shoulder... Bwuhahahahaaa
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People used to call me crazy, but now that I'm rich I am excentric.

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AndiAngelo
AndiAngelo


Hired Hero
posted August 14, 2002 04:01 PM

Quote:
diplo on rdms? well just save your game time than, it was funny to run over the map collecting monsters with someone like ryland when i started h3, but now? id rather watch woman golfing

but the thread is ok, i think it says all that there is to know about dip


i can beat you with ryland because im not nooB
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Lord_Woock
Lord_Woock


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
posted February 16, 2003 09:42 AM

I see Dodd's firewall screwed up.
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!

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bjorn190
bjorn190


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
posted July 20, 2003 01:03 PM

I will have need for this thread later so I thought I would postpone its deletion  for a bit

Btw if u ever wanna diplo, this thread tell u how to

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Pollo2002
Pollo2002


Known Hero
posted July 20, 2003 02:57 PM

I think the thread is very good, but really....diplo is for noobs...why don't you play a map where you have all your castle builded even the grail?

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HeymlicH
HeymlicH


Known Hero
posted January 20, 2007 04:40 PM

I rarely use the diplo skill, so I'm not an expert at this. I have seen the following thing twice so far: I have a hero with basic diplo. I see a neutral stack where a part of the creatures will join for some money. After I get expert diplo I come back to get the stack and find out they don't want to join any more. Is there any explanation why?

I know the composition of your army is affecting the chances of a stack to join you, but first: I don't think I changed the army at all, and second: this effect wouldn't be stronger than the effect of going from basic to expert diplo anyway, right?

Any ideas?

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FireSpirit
FireSpirit


Famous Hero
with warm hands
posted January 20, 2007 06:34 PM

Quote:
I rarely use the diplo skill, so I'm not an expert at this. I have seen the following thing twice so far: I have a hero with basic diplo. I see a neutral stack where a part of the creatures will join for some money. After I get expert diplo I come back to get the stack and find out they don't want to join any more. Is there any explanation why?

Maybe you didn't have enough gold with you?
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Ecoris
Ecoris


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted January 20, 2007 07:16 PM
Edited by Ecoris at 19:17, 20 Jan 2007.

You have to have enough gold to buy the stack, otherwise they'll flee and you won't ever get the offer. I can't remember how much the cost is but it's some percentage of the creatures' value.

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted January 20, 2007 07:24 PM
Edited by angelito at 19:25, 20 Jan 2007.

Would be insteresting to know what kind of units we are talking about. It is important to know if u had the same kind of units in your hero's army as the neutral creatures were.
This would be an important factor.

(btw...I'm not very comfortable with the middle sentence above...any native english could take a look?)
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.

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