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Heroes Community > Tournament of Honor > Thread: TAZAR vs HACK
Thread: TAZAR vs HACK This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT»
jondifool
jondifool


Promising
Adventuring Hero
extinct but alive!
posted February 17, 2003 02:29 AM

Greetings
Interesting with the A/D calculations for offense I didn't remember that . Must have sliped out sometime in my year break!

trowing in my 2 cents!

Doesn't defense give a longer battle lasting more rounds!
and doesn't offense gives a shorter battle lasting fewer rounds!

Isn't it what it comes down to ? when do we prefer a short or long battle!

A Defense setup gives more rounds for blessing and cursing spells to work, giving them more effect over time! Gives more rounds for your own troops annoying special ability to work as well (say Fortress ..)

Offense shortens battle giving opponents less time to throw damage spells or build up a load off curses/blesses. And stand less exsposed to enemy annoying effect (paralyze, stonegaze, and such things I call annoying as opposed to damagaing effects like double strike) simply because it takes less rounds to kill the enemy stacks or get killed!

when facing a magic hero it should be clear that when magic damage ratio compared to creature damage is high from that hero, you better have attack to hurt with in a short battle than defense and still get hurt in a long battle.
Defense does not have any value compared to offense when main problem is spell damage! When your main strength is spell damage you most likely want offense for support  winning battles and defense for lasting in the though ones

The case of missile damage is already discussed! Better to have defense when lots of archers is involved (no matter what side they are on).

Against comps AI its important to remember that offense allows you to have less troops for the supirior army that crush every thing in 1 mellee combatround! (wait, hit and done). On the other hand defense lets you stacks for sacrifice stands a little longer to suck up attack blows and retaliations!

About Taz vs Hack.

Simply put Taz makes fortress shine, really shine!
Why? because fortress have 4 to 5 creatures there have annoying abilitys where their value increases alot in a longer battle!
Hack does make Stronghold a lot harder hitting and stronghold have no creatures to gain value from a longer battle, as all creatures special abilitys are direct damage related!

For all other towns I think  it holds true that the more shooters and annoying abilitys the more value defense have!

All this up and Taz in my oppinion stands in the lead

with regards Jondifool


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The Oxe is slow, but earth have patience

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AndiAngelsla...
AndiAngelslayer


Disgraceful
Famous Hero
posted February 18, 2003 02:06 AM

Offense is always better than Armorer simply coz killing is better than avoiding to get killed.
With Hack you have good cards vs every kind of hero and vs every Monster. With Tazar you look bad vs big spells, specially with fortress that isnt known as the fastest town.
Also on the map, you meet Ancients you always in trouble with Tazar, while Hack has the chance to beat em up before they beat him up.

Or lets take Archdevils as example, you needa be able to kill those fast after you built yourself in with tactics (in the good case), not standing there and killing nothing.
Same thing with shooters, do you prefer that your shooters can take more damage or that they deal more damage? i dunno if elves are too happy for example it they can take "much" dmg...

than we have skills, i tend to get better ones with Barbs than with Bmasters. Also we have Artillery, which can be very very good on someone like Hack if you lucky to get one from another hero, while its totally useless with Tazar.

Overall i take Hack any day over Tazar, geez sometimes i even take Gurnisson over him if i stand vs a Stronghold for example...

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tewilligar
tewilligar


Famous Hero
Just another willigar
posted February 18, 2003 04:09 PM

i agree

in some cases taz might be better......but in most hack wins

hack is a faster magic killer,no doubt about it.

but 1 spells is double if not triple strength vs hack than the armorers....beserk.  

the armorer specialists wont see themselves kill themselves as fast.....

 meanwhile hack's offense ic crushing....to his own army.

 i might consider taking tazar over hack if facing tower cuz of the shooters.

 but,who plays tower besides n00bs anyways?


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Conanthebarbar
Conanthebarbar


Hired Hero
posted July 19, 2003 05:22 PM

Tazar OR Crag Hack?

Quote:
Tosssssssssssssssss...

You didnt add the most important fact that makes hack a lot better than Taz: Hack is a magic hero killer, the allround talent that deals with both a strong magic and strong might opponent.
Tazar will stand there with his useless defense vs big spells.


I would like to add to this quite important another one.
My point has nothing to with damage adding and taking mathematics, rather it stands closer to Andi's point. Let me to analyze this Tazar OR/(Vs?) Crag Hack subject from another view, which was not mentioned so far, but I am sure its important factor of this thread also. As certainly most of players know Crag Hack being barbarian hero can not (CAN NOT=no, he has not only small chances for it, it means NOT ALLOWED) pick water magic, counter to Tazar who similar to other beastmasters has PRIORITY for pick water magic skill. This means Crag has no chance to use mass cure and mass dispel in (let's say just human vs human) battle, however Tazar have in my opinion 70-80 % chance to get expert water till final battle. This factor in comparison of Tazar to Crag Hack can not be understimated too, I think. If Crag Hack's units will be casted with by a mass curse, they will be in serious trouble after and Crag's offense speciality dramatically loosing its strength. Since Crag can not cure ALL of them or can not dispel that spell, this can be a decent factor in whole battle later. Of course you can say now: "yeah, yeah, but which foo's go for expert fire??" (they mean Crag Hack's opponent). Thats pretty correct though, at the same time I admit too: its not only POSSIBLE to go for expert fire but even good plan it is, if you know that other player uses Crag Hack as main. Next question coming from this statement: Which heros(hero classes) can get fire magic at all? The obvious answer is heretics, but since the "mighty and wise veteran" bjorn_190 pointed out: "Uhm.. if your opp takes magic hero he is a foo and will lose either way." And frankly speaking I dont want to discuss with his statement, since generally it is true. So lets take an accurate question: which MIGHT heroes can get easiest way (=highest chance to be offered that skill in game) fire magic then? The fine answer is demoniac, then overlord and barbarians(!). This is fact so please lets not open discuss about this . So players who dont like evil heroes can go for a good barbarian hero like Gurnisson e.g.. I agree with Andi he is the second best barbarian hero after Crag Hack (thats not fact, just my subjective option though ). Funnily enough beatmasters are not able to pick fire magic, so please spare replies like: "Conan, you are totaly wrong hehe, Tazar never will cast onto Crag Hack's unit, you !@#$%... bla bla ", because I never ever stated like that! From this reason too I like my title Tazar OR Crag Hack better than Tazar vs Crag Hack. Back to fire magic subject: for example if you see in your tavern that opponent has Crag Hack and you see Gurnisson in your own tavern, buy him and try to get next to obvious skills (like offense, artillery, logistic, earth, armorer etc.) the FIRE MAGIC too. If you do it well and faces in final battle to Crag Hack, you can use a deadly combination of fire spells: mass curse-mass bloodlust and your units do more damages then Crag's ones! (I dont mention here mass slow, coz of that easily neglected with a mass haste, as we all know .

From Crag Hack's view he can be saved from such situation having RED ORB or high ressistance. Riding proud in the barbarian desert with recanter cloak (which many Crag Hack-fans do) is useless againts mass curse. If you still not impressed from my points (saying "ok, ok, dude, but expert fire magic STILL very hard to get and this point has nothing to do with Crag Hack againts Tazar thread") I advice to study the consequences of Mass Weakness spell  on Crag Hack units then So againts this spell doesnt help either recanter cloak, and Tazar (personally! ) has in my opinion 70-80 % chance to have that mass spell in final battle VS Crag Hack.

To add some points to Crag Hack too, his offense skill "best friends" are not spells it seems (however he can learn fire magic too and using mass bloodlust ), but by him can be very useful aid of his offene skill like: LEADERSHIP, LUCK and ARTILLERY. Of course leadership and luck easily can be neglected by 1-1 artifact, so their significants are not so high as lack of Water magic (imagine a mass bless or mass prayer on Crag's units ), but usually opponents does not own both of those artfacts.

I know my English is far from perfect, excuse me for bad spelling and grammatical mistakes and pls dont toss about them. I can't help on it.

                                    _ConanTheBarbarian_

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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted July 19, 2003 09:15 PM

Yawwwn Huh what I think i read a sentence Conan the barber.
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thecastrated
thecastrated


Known Hero
posted July 20, 2003 03:47 AM

"can be very useful aid of his offene skill like: LEADERSHIP, LUCK and ARTILLERY".. ya sure? lol

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Cold_soul
Cold_soul


Hired Hero
posted July 21, 2003 06:03 AM

U can all chose who u like but if the dificulty of the game is 100%, Hack has no chance against Tazar. All Tazar needs is just a loaded map with artifs and topias. And Taz will get even better atack than Hack.
So i chose Mulich over 100%

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Aquaman333
Aquaman333


Famous Hero
of the seven seas
posted July 21, 2003 06:05 AM

Tazar is better, but Crag has more character. His campaign in Shadow of Death was awesome!
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"OOOOOOO!"."  
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d3ces
d3ces

Tavern Dweller
posted July 26, 2003 09:20 PM

hy everybody..
hack vs tazar...hard game...strong heroes...but i dont know why you guys compare Hack whit Tazar and not whit Neela for example...belive me Tazar is no match for Neela because he will be dead from spells and because both heroes will get a lot of defense during the game and so attack cant decide the battle...and Hack also will be dead meat for Neela for the same reason...the huge ofense of Hack will be absorb by the huge melle and ranged rezistents of Nella and so the spells will decide the battle...and guess who will win in speel casting?...
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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted July 27, 2003 08:12 AM

Quote:
hy everybody..
hack vs tazar...hard game...strong heroes...but i dont know why you guys compare Hack whit Tazar and not whit Neela for example...belive me Tazar is no match for Neela because he will be dead from spells and because both heroes will get a lot of defense during the game and so attack cant decide the battle...and Hack also will be dead meat for Neela for the same reason...the huge ofense of Hack will be absorb by the huge melle and ranged rezistents of Nella and so the spells will decide the battle...and guess who will win in speel casting?...


lolololololol
Try to compare the skills of Neela and Hack when they reach Lev 15 or 20. Afterwards you can post again
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d3ces
d3ces

Tavern Dweller
posted July 27, 2003 08:11 PM

one word:IRELEVANT
two words:ABSUOLUT IRELEVANT
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d3ces
d3ces

Tavern Dweller
posted July 27, 2003 08:16 PM

aa! i almost forgot...
three words:artilery,balistics,scouting..
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Lord_Woock
Lord_Woock


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
posted July 28, 2003 09:44 PM

I'm a n00b and I know it, but I'm sure that I'm not the only person thinking that scouting is not a skill to have on the main hero.
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Aquaman333
Aquaman333


Famous Hero
of the seven seas
posted July 29, 2003 04:18 AM

Quote:
aa! i almost forgot...
three words:artilery,balistics,scouting..

Artillery only belongs on Garrison heroes, imo.

____________
"Brian, look! There's a message in my Alphabits! It says,    
"OOOOOOO!"."  
"Peter, those are Cheerios."-Family Guy

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MONKEY
MONKEY

Tavern Dweller
posted July 29, 2003 05:27 AM

d3ces, Aquaman333, u guys just been put in nob school.

gl hf
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Dont mess with this Monkey !!!

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Aquaman333
Aquaman333


Famous Hero
of the seven seas
posted July 29, 2003 06:04 AM

Why would you waste a valuable slot on Artillery?

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kasparov
kasparov


Adventuring Hero
posted July 29, 2003 07:57 AM

personal opinion

well it's really hard to say who is better because you don't usually get so lucky that both guys are in your tavern, w8ing for you to pick...plus even if they are you probly have chosen your main hero already...if i could choose either on DW (which is the map i love the most) i would probly pick either one depends on what arties i got.
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Conanthebarbar
Conanthebarbar


Hired Hero
posted July 31, 2003 06:35 PM

This thread is going into pretty bad direction : scouting

I was excepting coming replies to this water magic subject, whcih I pointed out sooner. May was it big mistake to open a thread from a half year ago, especially it seems to me, nobody reads starting posts, which are the most important ones in my opinion.

However, friend TheEverliving pointed out some points, which seems are pretty correct and change "slightly" my statemnets.

1.It is not true that Crag Hack cant take Water Magic.
Theoretically he can get that from a scholar. True, practically I know only quite a few ppl who would pick a scholar before he/she got all 8 skills (who wanna get eagle eye or navigation)?

2. Many players (including myself!) dont pick those skills on spot: LUCK, LEADERSHIP and ARTILLERY. Of course we all play on different way, but my point is still valid. These skills help (THEORETICALLY!) more to Crag Hack than to Tazar. And yes artillery is very good skill, no matter who and what says. If you have red orb or recanter (so your ballista cant be killed with ch.lighting or meteor shower) then ballista is a decent "unit" (makes a lots of damage) and need to kill it with extra spell or with an extra hit.

3. Of course as Andi pointed out correctly before, Tazar however can get mass water spells, but mass haste at Crag Hack is very dangerous, and its very normal if Crag Hack goes for that spell.

4. Fire spell subject is just theoretical subject too, like this whole thread was ORIGINALLY titled for theoretical disputes. Saf that it went to n00b direction .
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d3ces
d3ces

Tavern Dweller
posted August 03, 2003 04:55 PM

Quote:
d3ces, Aquaman333, u guys just been put in nob school.

gl hf

ok you big bad monkey...just learn something from the n00b school...)scouting is the WORST skill in the game.Why?scouting=watchtower...all the mighty skill of scouting is reduce by a simple touch of a watchtower....next...aa!artilery!!!Paladins in the field huh?not exactily...if you are dealing whit an armourer(Neela,Tazar or Mephala)...in one of those battles you wonder if you will make 1.000 damage whit behemonts and you are telling me that one small piece of wood whit an arrow in top of it will make the diference>))))))))))))))))i will give an ideea(from n00b school of course..):if you are so far from this game to chose artilery put it near your fastest unit(you have 50% to doge a basic bersek)And balistics...another very(my mistake..an extremly )good skill...let take this way...50% of battles are not in the castle...so far is a very useful skill..if the battle is in the castle 1)a tactcis is enough to put an big X on that skill 2)a faster unit whit whait in the first round will kill your balista and then retreat safe in the castle 3)just a big hopless and incredible n00b ..implosion...and i could tell you 1.000 more reason that make me belive taht YOU MY FRIEND ARE FAR...FAR....AWAY FROM THIS GAME...

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d3ces
d3ces

Tavern Dweller
posted August 03, 2003 05:04 PM

i  advise that  no one take balistics(you better destroy the wall by trowing whit level 1 or 2 units in it)))is more useful))))))))

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