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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: ERM help and discussion
Thread: ERM help and discussion [ This thread is 238 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 (127) 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 ]
Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 03, 2012 11:02 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 23:17, 03 Jan 2012.

I have all the !!en sections closed further so it is not the problem, as I am running through all CB's, I only posted the stockpile example. The strange thing is that I have no other scripts activated, my DATA/s is empty, only master document + display movement/enhanced hints(checked inside, no infos about type 16), market of time, arcane tower and freelancer, that's all. I had to keep them separately from master erm file because they need ert files, which I did not bother to compile.

@EDIT:I think I know what happens. If you visit a CB but not engage fight, in regular Heroes, you will get extra infos now when right clicking on entrance. "Guarded by hordes/zounds etc". It was an easy way to know what's inside in multiplayer games, specially for conservatories. As in my map the CB are visited then re-spawn, the game keeps track they were visited and will show for ever this extra info.  

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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted January 04, 2012 08:50 AM

That would be a difference in Era from WoG 3.58f then, because in TDS I get no guard information about a visited and then re-spawned Creature Bank.  If I recall correctly, in Phoenix Mod guard information is always given whether the CB has been visited or not.  I thought that was from a script, as in WoG, but maybe it has been patched into the executable.  In which case, maybe the patch is not affected by CM:R0.  Sheer speculation, of course - I will have a lot to learn about Era, which makes me a bit reluctant to move on from WoG, since much of what I have learned about WoG will then be useless.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 04, 2012 01:21 PM

I find it much more friendly and of course, being able to complain directly to the author is a big chance. The DL's are a great addition, then the if/en/el save a lot of typing (poor woodmelon), the F11-F12 keys are blessed and principally the plugins is what makes possible any changes in the structure, as XL maps, adding creatures or else. Which will be impossible with current 3.58. I also tested the last 'in the making" Bersy project, where you simply create a MOD folder and place everything in, game will read from, no need anymore to mix with regular data. Game will read the newest mod installed or renamed, so you can have 1000 of them.

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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted January 04, 2012 01:46 PM

Those are indeed wonderful, amazing features - I can't believe Bersy doesn't have about eight QP's - which will allow mod/map-makers to create an infinite number of new games.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 04, 2012 01:50 PM

The only unsolved feature is the editor reading from custom lods. As it is a mapmaker problem mostly, it does not have much interest for Bersy or Grayface, but it is doable. I am bothering him often about, sorry about. Just imagine: no more wog file, install file, anything except unpack custom lod in MODS then open map, play, everything.

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Hero_Of_Light
Hero_Of_Light


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted January 05, 2012 05:30 PM

I read the ERM help about Creature Banks but didn't find a way to edit the Griffin Observatory. As i said i wanted to have the griffins replaced with Crusaders and the Royal Griffins with monks (while keeping the same random stack numbers and Angel bonuses). I don't know how to do that for all the griffin observatories in a map since i don't know how to edit the !!CB#1/#2/#3:XXXX; command. Moreover, i found the G#1/$2/$3 command that edits the guardians but it would work for a fixed number of guardians (and not 10, 20 and so on).

If someone has a script that edits a creature bank's guardians please post it. This way i may find a way to understand how it works and edit it according to my wishes.  
____________
Not idly do the leaves of Lorien fall.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 05, 2012 05:49 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 18:13, 05 Jan 2012.

!#TM2:S1/1/1/255; Once
!?TM2;
!!UN:U16/-1/?y-1;  [creature banks number]
!!VRv1:S-1;
!!DO102/1/y-1/1:P16; [run through]


!?FU102;
!!UN:Ux1/-1/-1/1; [Creature Bank coordinates in v1/v2/v3]
!!OBv1/v2/v3:U?y1; [subtype]
!!FU&y1<>2:E; exit if not conservatory
!!CBv1/v2/v3:G0/7/d G1/8/d G2/8/d G3/8/d G4/8/d; [Set guards]
!!CBv1/v2/v3:M[...] [if you want creature reward]
!!CBv1/v2/v3:R6/10000; [if resource]

If you want to replace royals ONLY if there were royals, you will need to check each slot and change if subtype=5


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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted January 05, 2012 08:05 PM
Edited by JimV at 20:14, 05 Jan 2012.

A Griffin Observatory is not a Creature Bank.  A Griffin Conservatory is.  If you mean a Griffin Tower, that is a Monster Dwelling.  See ERM Help/Other Objects/!!DW Receiver.

For Object searching via ERM, as in Salamandre's example, see the UN:U command, and the examples at the bottom of the UN Receiver list, under the heading "New faster method for U command (search object engine)".

If you right-click an object in the Map Editor (v.3.3) and select Advanced Properties, Creature Banks are labeled "Creature Bank" at the top of the dialog, and Monster Dwellings are labelled "Creature Generator".

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 05, 2012 08:14 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 21:19, 05 Jan 2012.

He meant conservatory, probably typo.

Question: what would be the most efficient way to prohibit any AI hero to walk in areas I did not explored yet? I know map is revealed for AI, so I guess giving him blind curse and put shroud for his color on all not visited squares for me would not work, right?

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Hero_Of_Light
Hero_Of_Light


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted January 06, 2012 04:31 AM

Thanks Salamandre it worked
____________
Not idly do the leaves of Lorien fall.

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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted January 06, 2012 10:31 AM
Edited by JimV at 10:40, 06 Jan 2012.

I didn't know the AI sees the whole map.  If so, the AI is even stupider than I thought, because I have had situations in which AI players could take undefended Towns in a few moves, but they ignored them.  (I assumed because they could not see them.)

It would be possible to check each AI Hero move and prevent it from moving unto unshrouded (TR:V) squares, but then the AI has no way to pick alternate moves, so it will get stuck, and there might as well not be an AI.  So one way which occurs to me is old-fashioned map making:  divide the map into pockets with entrances (passes) on the human side but blocked on the AI side, and have Local Events in the passes which unblock the AI passes as a human's Hero triggers them.

An alternate would be to have the AI territory consist of labyrinth paths (lengthy to travel through), and remove parts of the labyrinth walls every time a human Hero moves to a location for which (x-x0)^2 + (y-y0)^2 is greater than its previous maximum value (where x0/y0 is the Hero's starting point).

A third way would be to designate some object as a "wall" object (it might be invisible, if that suits your purposes) and build the map with lots of "walls", but use a daily Timer to remove all "walls" which are unshrouded for the human player (TR:V).

(I use an invisible object in "The Swords of Night and Day" but built the map in a different folder where the object is not invisible.)

A variation of this would be to use the HM trigger (for the human player's Heroes) to scan the map and remove walls from the area which will be within the Hero's sight radius after the next step.  This might slow down the Hero's movement, though, depending on how efficiently it is done.  (Bersy would do it in a binary plug-in.  In ERM, a square area could be done more quickly than a circular area, so I would probably compromise between speed and exactness and use a square.)

If I were doing it, I would try all of these in tests maps and probably notice a better way as I experimented.

As usual, I don't have a thorough understanding of what your purpose is, so my suggestions probably miss the mark.  This is why I think people should read all of ERM/Era Help, so they know all the ERM tools and how to use them, and then can develop solutions which fit their purposes (or modify their purposes to fit what works the most smoothly for the player).  Besides, it is more fun that way, I think.

Update with further thoughts:  using the square region, it is only necessary to scan the new edges of the "sight square" as the hero moves.  That is, if the Hero moves south, only the south edge of the square needs to be checked.  So I think this can be done in ERM without much slow-down of movement.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 06, 2012 11:29 AM
Edited by Salamandre at 11:36, 06 Jan 2012.

I think I found a way, HE:U, but needs a lot of testing. AI has pathfinding problems as always, if I restrict too much, he does not move at all, if I give him all map travel spells, he will suicide in some un-explored area. For example, in TEW III I trigger powerful invaders at some moments, and several of them die when visiting some creature bank, while they have thousand of powerful creatures. Never understand that.

I don't know how to translate that:

U$1/$2/$3
Set/check/get hero's patrol position and radius.
Patrol position will be set to X($1), Y($2) (the level is fixed).
The radius will be set to $3 ("set free" if $3 = -1).

So assuming I want an hero to travel between x=10 and y=40, I must place the hero in middle of that area? There is no info if the radius is limited, as it is in regular. What if radius is greater than the x/y coordinates? I tried several configurations, they move strange, out and in.

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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted January 06, 2012 12:24 PM

That illustrates my point - having an AI Hero patrol a fixed region instead of moving as the AI determines except for blocked region is completely different than what I thought you intended.

My interpretation is that the HE:U command is intended to be the same as the Map Editor patrol function, where the first two parameters are the center of the radius (which would be the starting position, in the case of the Map Editor), and the third is the radius.  The only difference being that for the Map Editor function, the Hero always starts at the center, e.g. Xarfax in TDS can reach most points in his territory from his Inferno, since he has a radius of 15.  He can even get in a boat - but he can't get more than a couple squares from the shore, which must be frustrating for him.

For the ERM function, the question is, what if the Hero starts outside of the radius around (#1/#2)?  My guess is that it will either be stuck (since any move would be a move to a square outside its patrol region), or would ignore the patrol condition completely unless it randomly found itself inside the patrol region at the start of a turn.  So I think for best results the AI Hero should be placed inside its patrol region, preferably at the center (x/y=#1/#2).

So yes, if the patrol radius is 10 and you want the Hero to stay between x=10 and x=30, place it at x=20 and set #1 to 20 (and #3 to 10) (and similarly for y).  Note, "radius" implies that the Hero will not be able to reach every tile which has x=10 or x=30, but only those for which (x-20)^2 + (y-y0)^2 is less than 101 (where y0 is #2 and ^2 means "the quantity squared", i.e., multiplied by itself).

(Example:  if a Hero is teleported into a shrouded region, the region unshrouded by its sight radius would be the patrol region if the Hero was given a patrol radius equal to its sight radius at that position.)

Based on experience with Xarfax, I think the Hero will do everything it can within its patrol radius, and then be stuck at the edge of its patrol circle which is closest to the tile which the AI would go to if it were free.  So at that point there might as well not be an AI.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 06, 2012 04:53 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 16:56, 06 Jan 2012.

DOWNLOAD

Can someone download and open this small chm file? It is latest ERA manual and I can't open it. Just tell me if you get the infos on right screen please.

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Aleee
Aleee


Known Hero
posted January 06, 2012 04:57 PM

Quote:
Just tell me if you get the infos on right screen please.

It works just fine for me. What's the matter?

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 06, 2012 05:24 PM

Can't open it on english OS

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Aleee
Aleee


Known Hero
posted January 06, 2012 06:02 PM

You can try this as a replacement.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 06, 2012 06:08 PM

Thanks but that version I can open. Is the latest manual which is impossible for me. The one translated by JimV.

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Aleee
Aleee


Known Hero
posted January 06, 2012 06:23 PM

I don't quite understand. I converted the chm that you had uploaded. Why would you upload the file you can open and ask there to check it?

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 06, 2012 06:48 PM

Ah sorry, I just saw the head line, last updated 15.08.2011 and I thought you uploaded ERA 1.08 manual. Seems Bersy forgot to update the date as well. Thanks.

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