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Romana
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Thx :D
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posted July 15, 2003 11:44 AM |
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Quote:
It isn't the way Life is intended to be.
I wonder where you gained the knowledge of how Life is meant to be. And also it was said we should love animals as we love othe humans..well..aint that exactly what we're doing? I mean wake up and look outside..Humans aren't "nice" to eachother. I can only speak for my own experience , but what I see is people walking around not even realizing someone else might have feelings too.
As for experiment done on humans..it's already done.. You can apply for testing of new medication, ofcourse there are tons of requirements before you're accepted, but it's definately done.
As for my position on animal testing, I find testing on them for "luxury" purposes is revolting. (Like for instance make-up) And to be honest I don't know very much about what exactly is being tested upon them (cure for disease, cloning) But I think to say that there's a huge difference between animals and humans therefor making it absolete or maybe even more difficult is nonsense. I mean..don't you think the people doing the tests know a "little" more about that? If the testing continues it must be something neccessary at the moment.
It's always easy for "ignorant" people to scream injustice..the challenge is to find out if it really is
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IRh
Famous Hero
Lizard
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posted July 15, 2003 06:55 PM |
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Well done. Can anyone say something more now?
sidenote: Oh yes Lith, I understand. I am a lizardhuman with basilisk's stone gaze. My mama liked basilisks so... 
*trying to petrify Lith*
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HodgePodge
Adventuring Hero
Bard Extraordinairé
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posted July 16, 2003 03:47 AM |
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romana:
I mean..don't you think the people doing the tests know a "little" more about that? If the testing continues it must be something neccessary at the moment.
It's always easy for "ignorant" people to scream injustice..the challenge is to find out if it really is
Actually, it's always easy for "ignorant" people to just shut their eyes to the whole thing & pretend like humans have a right to misuse others, whether animals or people. I have researched the subject of Animal Testing for many years so - you must be referring to yourself!
I suggest you take a look at the web site(s) below before you call anyone else "ignorant" Romana.
http://www.peta-online.org/
http://www.all-creatures.org/
And then read a few books on the subject.
Animal Liberation: by Peter Singer
The Slaughter of Terrified Beasts: by J.R. Hyland
Peaceful Kingdom - Random Acts of Kindness by Animals: by Stephanie Laland
After researching the subject thoroughly, Romana, maybe you can rise above the level of being an "ignorant" person.
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted July 16, 2003 04:13 AM |
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HodgePodge,
You're a vegetarian. Congratulations, so am I, but let me let you in on a little secret. You will never convince anybody to stop eating meat by calling them disgusting and immoral. All that does is confirm people's belief that vegetarians are holier than thou snows. You end up being just like the people who come door to door telling people they're going to hell unless they convert to {insert name of religion here}. Just remember, there are a number of people who would take issue with your statements that wool, milk and eggs are okay. After all, isn't that forced slavery of animals? Wouldn't you get more than a little pissed off if somebody came and called you a slaver every time you wanted to eat an omelette?
Don't eat meat? Fine, don't eat meat, but don't preach. When people inevitably give you snow about it, don't give them the "you're a murderer and by the way, it takes x gallons of water to produce a pound of meat but only y gallons to produce a pound of wheat and it's healthier, too, blah blah blah" speech, just say, "look, I don't eat meat, I don't care if you do or not, so eat your hamburger and let me enjoy my broccoli." Eventually, people start asking if they can try the veggie burgers you're eating and, to many people's surprise, they find out that they taste pretty good. I've had several friends and roommates go veggie basically because they found out that there was a lot of good vegetarian options out there that happen to be both healthier and cheaper.
As to that clean heart, where do you live? How many animals do you think were killed when their habitat was destroyed to make room for your house or apartment building? How much waste was dumped into a river to manufacture your corpse free refrigerator? How much smoke was pumped into the air to power it? Hell, how much land was bulldozed to grow that macrobiotic organic celery? Guess who used to live on that land. Fluffy bunnies and adorable deer? Guess what got run over by the truck carrying the latest shipment of tofu. Unless you're sitting in some empty field photosynthesizing, you might want to stop being so accusatory towards everybody else. Live your life the way you see fit, but don't claim that those who disagree with you have an "obvious disregard for life"
And to the people who seem to think experimenting on prisoners would be okay, Private Hudson has very correctly pointed out that there was one very significant group back in the 1940's that thought this was a good idea, too.
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Drive by posting.
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silx87
Supreme Hero
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posted July 16, 2003 10:01 PM |
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Quote:
Unless you're sitting in some empty field photosynthesizing, you might want to stop being so accusatory towards everybody else. Live your life the way you see fit, but don't claim that those who disagree with you have an "obvious disregard for life"
I have nothing else to add
Quote:
And to the people who seem to think experimenting on prisoners would be okay, Private Hudson has very correctly pointed out that there was one very significant group back in the 1940's that thought this was a good idea, too.
Prisoners?Bad idea!I agree!
Volounteers...slightly better
but still bad since where do you et those ppl?Thats right!No one would agree.
Experimenting on humans will be very hard since you won't have any humans to experiment on!Maybe only those that already have the disease you are experimenting with?...
I agree with Romana!The scientists OBVIOUSLY know about the difference between animals and humans if they are experimenting on animals to cure humans.Its also possible to change certain things in the animals to make them very similar to humans!It has been done for a very long time already!
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Romana
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Thx :D
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posted July 16, 2003 10:05 PM |
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Edited By: Romana on 16 Jul 2003
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Quote:
Actually, it's always easy for "ignorant" people to just shut their eyes to the whole thing & pretend like humans have a right to misuse others, whether animals or people. I have researched the subject of Animal Testing for many years so - you must be referring to yourself!
Hodge Podge..Did I refer to you as ignorant? I think not..
I just implied that many people are so don't be acting all high and mighty with me ok! Atleast I don't go around insulting the people replying to the topic and I was under the impression I was allowed to speak my mind. Why don't you go and read a book on HUMAN rights .
ANd to help you along here a pretty link
http://www.amnesty.org/
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Cat
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Gonna Get Dirrty...
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posted July 16, 2003 10:24 PM |
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I have to agree with Romana... Singer, for instance, also has views regarding human and environmental ethics, not all of which make as much sense as perhaps they should.
What Romana means to say I think is that every little picture has a big picture acompanying it. You cannot look to one piece of the puzzle if you don't have the rest of the jigsaw.
Jeremy Bentham admitted that animals did indeed have a great capacity for suffering and enjoyment equal to the capacity "enjoyed" by human beings. The fact that we can talk and have a state is irrelevant, animals should be given equal treatment.
Well then... Animals should be sent out into minefields, gas and subjected to machine gun fire for the sake of their "brothers". Animals in pain and sufferig should not be put down as if we are to give them the same considerations as people they should be allowed to die in pain. They should e forced into doing miserable tasks beneth their mental capacity for money to allow them to pay the rent and buy their food. They should have no leisure time and strict codes of behaviour.
All equalities have their problems.
Humans are not yet equal and the kind of "equality" we enjoy I wouldn't wish on another species.
Also... what would be the alternative to animal testing? Bacterial testing would not be possible as bacteria is conscious, contributes a function and exhibits behaviour.
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 Diwethaf Gloau Sylw y Gymreag
http://aozos.com/phpBB2/index.php
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HodgePodge
Adventuring Hero
Bard Extraordinairé
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posted July 17, 2003 01:21 AM |
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Eating Meat Isn't The Issue ...
The issue here is cruelty & the torturing of animals!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bort:
Don't eat meat? Fine, don't eat meat, but don't preach.
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Romana
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Thx :D
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posted July 17, 2003 12:41 PM |
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Edited By: Romana on 17 Jul 2003
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My Fridge & Closets are Dead-Animal FREE!! Maybe YOUR fridge or closet is crammed with corpses but not mine. Animals are sentient beings, deserving of kindness & respect. Anyone who doesn't believe this is an enemy to all life on this planet & all creation!
I admit..I am a mass murderer.. It all started when I took my first steps into the world..crushing countless of ants and other bugs crawling under my feet. Later on I made myself guilty on swatting flies , making them splatter all over the wall or window or just smashing them between my hands.
Just look in horror to these torture devices .. I'm sure everyone has one or maybe used a newspaper!!
That is soo cruel. I know of people who burn the poor bugs and then those poor bees. They work so hard to make that honey and then we smoke em out and take it away like the tirants we are!
*goes to a meeting of Bug Swatters Anonymous*
(BSA)
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Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
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posted July 17, 2003 12:54 PM |
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aw nestadiel...
you forgot mosquito bashing...
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You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
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Cat
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Gonna Get Dirrty...
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posted July 17, 2003 01:01 PM |
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Damacon_Ace
Famous Hero
Also known as Nobris Agni
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posted July 18, 2003 03:26 AM |
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Just look in horror to these torture devices .. I'm sure everyone has one or maybe used a newspaper!!
That is soo cruel. I know of people who burn the poor bugs and then those poor bees. They work so hard to make that honey and then we smoke em out and take it away like the tirants we are!
*goes to a meeting of Bug Swatters Anonymous*
(BSA)
Romana, creatures like mosquitoes, bees, flies and ants are often pests to our race. The reason why we swat flies, ants, bees, and mosquitoes is because those creatures are harmful to our health and living. I myself killed a lot of flies and mosquitoes not because I am a devilish heretic murderer, but because I am trying to protect my health and prevent possible diseases these insects carry. In the second place, the honey we eat actually mostly comes from apairies, not from wild bees.
While I am against hunting and murder of endangered and native species for illegal fur/ivory/skin trade, I don't find the killing of domesticated animals for food/leather cruel and devilish - I am not a vegetarian, and I like leather. Romana, is there any hint that you are an animal liberationist?
Also HodgePodge, judging by your posts here, are you a hippie?
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No one knows my true nature here...
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Romana
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Thx :D
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posted July 18, 2003 09:30 AM |
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Edited By: Romana on 18 Jul 2003
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..I guess..I wasn't clear with my last post but ok
What's an animal liberationist?
( I think we all know who's the hippie  )
So Damacon..tell me how you feel about animal testing then.
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kuma
Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
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posted July 18, 2003 11:08 AM |
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Quote:
Also HodgePodge, judging by your posts here, are you a hippie?
Well he's certainly high on something. What a dumb statements. You talk like a 12-year-old who's dog got run over by a red Ford and now hates all red Fords.
Gain some perspective boy.
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People used to call me crazy, but now that I'm rich I am excentric.
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Mad_Unicorn
Famous Hero
I am a mean person shame on me
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posted July 18, 2003 01:54 PM |
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Well i use to work at a place that tested mice/gerbils/rats for medical science... also they dabbled in cosmetics.
Now me not being a scientist by any definition other than the books i read, I was working in the back with all the orders the process for who and for what... They do all this testing on these poor animals okay fine save us... you would NOT believe the AMOUNT of people who quickly give up the use of said medication because of the VAST amounts of differences between a human and a rat.
Lets say i go through 5000 orders a day sorting and what not atleast 3000 of those are returns and never want to use the medicine again...
I quickly quit my job after i found out how they go about killing off the rats/gerbils/mice. Some of the employees even took a sick sorta pride in it.. (yeah lets whip a mouse by its tail and smash it on the table... sounds stable to me... and if your wondering any animal injected with ANYTHING must be put down within 2 weeks unless they have to do more testing.)
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murl_the_spoon
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 24, 2003 07:00 AM |
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Wow. Just wow. Humans are animals, right? Just smarter. So, the lion does not let the zebra go because it is inhumane to do so. You do not see Lions with signs, protesting the other lion's practice of killing zebras. This whole conversation is stupid.
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"Thieves are people too, Diane. If you p r i c k a thieves finger, does he not leave a blood trail back to his lair?" -Mafia
Murl the Spoon
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Sniper
Known Hero
Dark paladin of Deyja
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posted July 24, 2003 10:02 AM |
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buddy the lion catches the zebra in the first place so he can survive, so he can eat....why do we catch an animal?
all the animals we can ea are already in farms, why catch others?????
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You only see me once..
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soccerfeva
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
banned
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posted July 24, 2003 01:00 PM |
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It can't be helped..we have too many animals wondering around..and they have to do it for research,for this for that..but it's quite cruel,but humans have been known to 'murder' someone,which is more cruel..
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murl_the_spoon
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 24, 2003 07:33 PM |
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But why is it so more inhumane to test animals in laboratories then slaughter them for our plate? I am against a blatent case of animal abuse, such as smacking rats on the table, and I believe that such companies should be prosecuted. But other then that, I value the life of a human over a rat or a mouse.
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"Thieves are people too, Diane. If you p r i c k a thieves finger, does he not leave a blood trail back to his lair?" -Mafia
Murl the Spoon
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Dingo
Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
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posted September 20, 2003 01:50 AM |
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I don't like hurting animals, and I don't like it when people do. But I love bacon burgers!
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The Above Post/Thread/Idea Is CopyRighted by, The Dingo Corp.
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