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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: "Run Forest.... RUN!"
Thread: "Run Forest.... RUN!" This thread is 7 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · NEXT»
Kuma
Kuma


Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
posted May 06, 2003 10:56 AM

"Run Forest.... RUN!"

I got a few questions, none of the stratgyboards or books seem to answer.

If u get Boots of speed (BoS) how much further can u travel?
And the gloves?
2 gloves dun make u travel faster than 1 glove, right?
Is the % of logistic on top of the BoS/gloves?
And as for movementstructures?



BTW, movementstructures are:

Stables: movement +6 for the week.
Fountain of Youth: movement +4 for day, +1 Morale.
Oasis: movement +8 for day, +1 Morale.
Rally Flag: movement +4 for day, +1 Morale & Luck.
Watering Hole: movement +4 for day, +1 Morale.



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Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted May 06, 2003 02:49 PM

youre travel further with two gloves than one, although i dunno the rest. Someone wanna do some testing?

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lord_crusader
lord_crusader


Promising
Supreme Hero
UHU!! supreme!
posted May 06, 2003 03:04 PM

I don't know the exactly answer but one time when I play with kyrre(rampart) this happen with:
hero speciality logistics
expert logistics
stable
two gloves
the boots

and wow, he cross the map, side to side in XL map, sure with the road and others structures that increased the movement...
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Dig Out Your Soul

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zordrac
zordrac


Adventuring Hero
posted May 06, 2003 04:09 PM

I believe that the effects are cumulative, yes.

As an example of it, there is the tutorial for HOMM3 (regular tutorial), in which you have unheard of movement.

However, you can't see 2 stables on the same day. But you can see a stable, rally flag, etc, all in a row.

To test it out, simply make a map with all of them lined up in a row
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AndiAngelsla...
AndiAngelslayer


Disgraceful
Famous Hero
posted May 06, 2003 07:56 PM

Quote:
youre travel further with two gloves than one, although i dunno the rest. Someone wanna do some testing?


bloody noob...only 1 pair of gloves works, never 2...

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rychenroller
rychenroller


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 06, 2003 11:41 PM

same with all arts...2 orb of firmaments dont increase lightning by 75% or 100%, 2 quiet eyes dont give you +2 +2, 2 cards of prophecy dont give you +2 luck.

thought you blokes would know this game by now
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Myctteakyshd

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Lews_Therin
Lews_Therin


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 07, 2003 12:26 AM

If I remember correctly ...
Boots +6 movement
Gloves +4 movement
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Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted May 07, 2003 01:45 AM

hmmm you sure about that gloves aint culminative? because ive heard they are.

Well havent tested it myself so im not 100% sure. Then i havent played this game for about half a year either so

Oh and btw Andi, youre doing a very bad job not talking to me again...but since i guess that was a slip up its ok for now

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I
I


Famous Hero
posted May 07, 2003 01:59 AM
Edited By: I on 6 May 2003

It's normal that theres no difference between 1 or 2 glowes on a hand. Isn't it?
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Yoghurt!

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Wub
Wub


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted May 10, 2003 03:31 AM bonus applied.
Edited By: Wub on 9 May 2003

Check here for the test results

Quote:
Someone wanna do some testing?


I have done major testing on heroes 4 and posted the results on the lands. Since I'm back at playing HoMM3 I'm happy to do the testing.

Please note that I don't have AB or SOD. So the version I used for testing is Restoration of Erathia 1.4 (the latest patch). This is the first time that I do this testing for HoMM3, so I will write down my used methods as well. I will do my very best to not overlook anything, but I can't guarantee you that every test is correct. For those who are only interested in the results, check the end of my post.

The first step was to test the movement penalty on grass. You should be moving with a speed of 100%. In the thread HoMM3 tactics by Frank, Blitzkrieg_I posted the exact movement numbers for normal terrain/grass terrain. According to this information, a unit with speed 9 should move over the adventure map with 19 hexes per day. I checked this by letting a hero with one serpent fly cross the adventure map in a straight line and all the information seems right. By the way, walking to an adjacent diagonal hex costs more movement than walking to an adjacent horizontal hex.

Test 1: Boots of speed.
-Broghild with 1 serpent fly moves 19 hexes on grass per day.
-Give him the boots and hit end turn.
-Broghild will now move 25 hexes.
-Conclusion: boots of speed increase movement by 6.

Test 2: Equestrian gloves.
-Same method as above.
-Broghild moves 22 hexes instead of 19.
-Conclusion: equestrian gloves increase movement by 3.

Test 3: Do equestrian gloves work cumulatively?.
-Broghild moves 22 hexes with 1 serpent fly and 1 pair of gloves
-Broghild still moves 22 hexes with 1 serpent fly and 1 pair of gloves.
-Conclusion: equestrian gloves do not work cumulatively.

Test 4: Do quite eyes of the dragon work cumulatively?
-With no ring, Broghild has 0 attack and 4 defense.
-With 1 ring, Broghild has 1 attack and 5 defense.
-With 2 rings, Broghild has 2 attack and 6 defense.
-Conclusion: Quite eyes of the dragon work cumulatively

Test 5: Do rings of the wayfarer work cumulatively?
-Same method as above.
-Rings of the wayfarer do not work cumulatively.

Test 6: Do speed artifacts increase your adventure map movement?
-Broghild and 1 serpent fly moves 19 hexes/day.
-Give Broghild a cape of velocity and hit end turn.
-Broghild still moves 19 hexes/day.
-Speed artifacts do not seem to increase adventure map movement.

Test 7a: How much extra movement do stables give?
-Broghild's base movement is 19.
-Visited stables and hit end turn.
-Broghild's movement is now 23.
-Conclusion: stables give +4 movement.

Test 7b: Testing logistics.
-Gave Broghild a Dragon Fly for a movement of 20.
-Gave Broghild expert logistics.
-Broghild gets a speed of 26.
-Conclusion: expert logistics works properly.

Test 7c: How does it work when an expert logistics hero visited stables?
-Broghild + Dragon Fly + expert logistics = 26 movement.
-Visited stables and hit end turn.
-Broghild moves 30 hexes.
-Conclusion: You do not seem to get the 30% logistic bonus over movement modifiers.

Test 7d: How does it work when an expert logistics hero has got boots of speed?
-Broghild + Dragon Fly + expert logistics = 26 movement.
-Gave boots and hit end turn.
-Broghild moves with 32 hexes/day.
-This is in line with the previous conclusion: You do not seem to get the 30% logistic bonus over movement modifiers.

And now for something completely different. I also tested the number of demons that pit lords can summon. I varied the number of pit lords, the hero level and the presence of magic plains. I kept arriving at the same conclusion:

1 pit lord raises 50 hit points, which is 1.42857 demons.
Or:
7 pit lords raise 350 hitpoints, which is exactly 10 demons.

An example: 5 pit lords raise demons from a dead 400 hit point stack. They raise 5*50=250 hitpoints. 250/35 = 7,14 demons. The number of demons raised is ALWAYS rounded down. So in this case, 7 demons are raised.

One important thing to keep in mind is that one can never be 100% sure of the conclusions. Because if one wants to be sure, every test has to be executed in every possible situation, which is clearly impossible. But to me it feels that all these conclusions are valid. I'll sum them up one more time:

-Boots of speed increase adventure map movement by 6.
-Equestrian gloves increase adventure map movement by 3.
-Equestrian gloves do not work cumulatively.
-Quite eyes of the dragon do work cumulatively.
-Rings of the wayfarer do not work cumulatively.
-Speed artifacts (such as cape of velocity) do not seem to increase adventure map movement)
-Stables give +4 movement.
-You do not seem to get the 30% expert logistic bonus over movement modifiers: boots still give +6 movement and stables still +4.
-One pitlord raises 50 hitpoints, which equals 10/7 demons (1.42857). The number of demons is always rounded down.

If this way of testing is accepted, I am willing to run more tests in the future. Until I get bored of course .
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Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted May 10, 2003 04:31 AM

hehe thnx alot Wub

A very good post.

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Celfious
Celfious


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Rat whisperer
posted May 10, 2003 09:07 AM

Wubs test taught be stuff =D (sorry im cold)

SOmethin' I wouldn't mind testing myself *hint*
Is all the spells relation to eatchother. Contradictions, and compialations

Curse & bless contradict eatchother

Prayer and the several other modifying spells.
Is it possible to have units w/ +100% strength, defence, hitpoints, ect.. Due to multi spells?


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Kuma
Kuma


Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
posted May 12, 2003 09:17 AM
Edited By: Kuma on 19 Jul 2003

Red star to Wub. on behalve of all us lazy bums in here: thx for the testing mate  

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Wub
Wub


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted May 14, 2003 03:11 AM
Edited By: Wub on 18 May 2003

Great, some more testing then...

I won't write down the complete way in which I tested it, because I used the same kind of methods as before. Here goes:

Expert slow halves speed (rounded down) and expert prayer adds 4 speed. How do they work together and does it matter in which order they are cast on the target?
---->The spellcasting sequence of the spells doesn't matter. When slow and prayer work simultaneously on a target, prayer adds only +2 speed and slow still halves speed.

For example: a walking dead moves with a speed of 3. When you cast expert prayer on it, it will move with 7 speed. When you also cast slow on it, it will move with the half amount of 7 speed (rounded down) = 3 speed.
In case you cast slow first and then prayer: walking dead + expert slow = 1 speed. Then you cast prayer as well, it will only add 2 speed, which makes it 3 speed too.
Similarly, an expert slowed, prayered behemoth will move with a speed of 5.


Another test revealed that the archery skill does increase the damage of a ballista, but that the offense skill does not increase the damage of a ballista.


I tested the idea of DoddTheSlayer to cast stoneskin on a creature before casting frenzy. It does indead appear that when you cast stone skin first, the frenzy becomes more effective.


EDIT: Xarfax pointed out a mistake in this test and showed that creature specialists do increase the movement of the creatures that they have a specialty in. So grand elves under command of Ivor move with a speed of 8 on the adventure map, not 7. If creatures are on native terrain, this does not increase their movement points. For example: grand elves have the same number of movement on grass as on dirt.

I hope I explained it comprehensively. More to come if I can think of something useful to test.
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kuma
kuma


Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
posted May 14, 2003 11:10 AM

Quote:

Another test revealed that the archery skill does increase the damage of a ballista, but that the offense skill does not increase the damage of a ballista.



U sure about this one? I thought it was different, but come to think it, it makes sense.
____________
People used to call me crazy, but now that I'm rich I am excentric.

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Wub
Wub


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted May 17, 2003 02:22 AM bonus applied.
Edited By: Wub on 16 May 2003

Some more test results

Quote:
U sure about this one? I thought it was different, but come to think it, it makes sense.


Well, you can never be sure about it. Maybe it depends on my version etc. etc. But I can say how I tested it.

-I took Ignatius, gave him a ballista and basic artillery (no other skills) and engaged a group of gremlins.
-Without archery and offense, the ballista does 31-47 damage
-With offense, the ballista does 31-47 damage
-With archery, the ballista does 40-60 damage
-With archery and offense, the ballista does 40-60 damage.
-Conclusion: archery increases the damage that a ballista does, but offense does not increase its damage.

Just like the test above, the following test is inspired upon an old thread.
I found out several things:

You can not resurrect black dragons, but you can summon demons from them (1 black dragon = 1 demon). Itís a bit of useless info, but ok.

When you carry the orb of invulnerability, you still cannot turn undead, golems and gargoyles into demons.

When you carry the orb of inhibition, you cannot summon demons with your pit lords.

On cursed ground, you canít summon demons either.

When you wear the recanterís cloak, you can summon demons.

As I said before, on magic plains you cannot summon demons more effectively.

This seems to lead to the conclusion that the summon demon spell from pit lords is a level 2 spell.

You canít, however, acquire the summon demon spell through eagle eye (would be funny).


I also executed a more useful test. I was interested in predicting how many stacks of creatures I will face, when I engage a neutral monster stack. My hypothesis was, that the smaller the enemy army is relative to my army, the less stacks the enemy army is divided in. Or in other words: the more certain that the wandering monster stack is that it will be victorious, the more stacks it will make.

I tested this as follows. I placed a neutral monster stack of 840 hobgoblins on the map. I chose that number because it can be divided by 1,2,3,4,5,6 and 7. Then I varied the number of hobgoblins that my army consisted of and counted the number of stacks that I had to face. I gave myself a useless hero (serena, specialty eagle eye, 0 attack, 0 defense, starting spell: dispel). The results:

When I engaged the 840 hobgoblins with a number between 0 and 419 hobgoblins, I faced 7 stacks of 120 hobgoblins.
When I engaged the 840 hobgoblins with a number between 420 and 562 hobgoblins, I faced 6 stacks of 140 hobgoblins.
When I engaged the 840 hobgoblins with a number between 563 and 839 hobgoblins, I faced 5 stacks of 168 hobgoblins.
When I engaged the 840 hobgoblins with a number between 840 and 1259 hobgoblins, I faced 4 stacks of 210 hobgoblins.
When I engaged the 840 hobgoblins with a number between 1260 and 1679 hobgoblins, I faced 3 stacks of 280 hobgoblins.
When I engaged the 840 hobgoblins with a number larger than 1680, I faced 2 stacks of 420 hobgoblins.

Strangely, I never faced one stack of hobgoblins, not even when I attacked with 28000 hobgoblins (they did want to join me though ).

I can also write the results down in percentages:

When your army strength is less than 50% of the neutral monster stack, you will face 7 stacks.
When your army strength is more than or equal to 50%, but less than 67,0% of the neutral monster stack, you will face 6 stacks.
When your army strength is more than or equal to 67,0%, but less than 100% of the neutral monster stack, you will face 5 stacks.
When your army strength is more than or equal to 100%, but less than 150% of the neutral monster stack, you will face 4 stacks.
When your army strength is more than or equal to 150%, but less than 200% of the neutral monster stack, you will face 3 stacks.
When your army strength is 200% or more than the neutral monster stack, you will face 2 stacks.

I also wondered if the power of my hero would influence the number of stacks that I would have to fight. So I repeated some of the tests, but now I gave my hero 50 attack and 50 defense. I got the same results. I also made my hero level 10, but the results were still the same. This suggests that the strength of your hero does not matter for the formation of enemy stacks.

On numerous occasions, the neutral stack of hobgoblins wanted to join, but I do not have enough data to predict the minimal amount of numbers needed for that. The same goes for fleeing.

There are some problems with my tests. First, I only engaged hobgoblins. Second, I only used hobgoblins in my own army. So to give more detailed predictions about the enemy formation, I need further testing. But I can suggest the following:

The number of enemy stacks in a neutral army depends on your army size. The bigger your army in comparison to the neutral monster stack, the less stacks you will face. I think that this goes hitpointwise, but I need to do more testing for that. The strength of your hero does not influence the enemy formation.

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Khayman
Khayman


Promising
Famous Hero
Underachiever
posted May 17, 2003 02:32 AM

Wub rules!

Wub, I would like to thank you for taking the time to test all of those scenarios out.  Great information!  Now where the heck were you when I needed you back in Season I of TOH?
____________
"You must gather your party before venturing forth."

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Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted May 17, 2003 03:50 AM

hehe ya, this is great to know for example da shak attack

good post again wub!

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zilonite
zilonite


Famous Hero
posted May 17, 2003 07:33 AM

elephants join to Wub's fan club

Indeed, great testing Wub! If u will go on like this, Kuma will run out of stars for u


Also some ideas for further testing, if u still have some patience in reserve

1.Would be interesting to know, does this stack thing really works on hp of your army or creature total strength (i.e. att/def skills and damage of the creatures in your army) also have some importance?

2.What is the rule of upgraded units appearance? Xar on some posts before proposed the idea that the bigger army u have, more upgraded dudes will be in neutral stack. However it looks for me now, that he came to this conclusion simply because with larger army u will face less stacks in total, so upraded stack will be bigger.

3.How about revealing mystery of Azure Drags? As far as i know, they have more surprises that only Fear in pocket... I think they also have lvl 1-3 spell imunity + some resistance skill, too. Is it right and is there anything else?
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Elephants commonly have a bad eyesight. Yet with their bulk this is not a major problem for them.

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rychenroller
rychenroller


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 18, 2003 01:38 PM

"Just a little note: The creature speciality of heroes DOES give additional speed ON the map. So in this case u were wrong.

To the offense/artillery/archery-thingie on the artillery i must say that i didnt tested it. But Motorschaaf did it once, and he said that offense also influences the artillery. Well maybe in this case u might have overlooked something too."

He was correct Xar, in both these issues. Tested myself although I already knew ballista = archery.

Nice posts Wub
____________
Myctteakyshd

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