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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted July 26, 2013 07:26 PM |
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Thanks, i couldn't relate before but now I get it. The feeling of someone having disease is very very unattractive - I have the same with extremely dry skinned pale people that have bad (very greasy etc hair). Just couldn't do anything with a person like that.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 26, 2013 07:33 PM |
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Drakon-Deus said: Why bother to look attractive in those horrible jeans when she can do that in a dress or skirt?
"Bother to look attractive"? Have you seen such a thing as natural beauty?
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Eccentric Opinion
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted July 26, 2013 07:36 PM |
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Jeans kill it all for me. Anything but jeans on a woman.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted July 26, 2013 07:41 PM |
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mvassilev said: I like jeans. Jeans and a t-shirt are one of the most attractive things a girl can wear. If she's capable of looking attractive at all, she'll look attractive in jeans and a t-shirt.Quote: Can you dissect or explain a bit more why it is a deal breaker for you?
It's an aesthetic preference. I suspect it may have something to do with an instinctive aversion to disfigurement and disease*. Not a tattoo, but here's another example - at college, there was a dining hall worker with huge ear gauges. I could barely look at his head because the holes in his ears caused so much aversion in me. For me, tattoos are similar, though to a much lesser degree. It just doesn't look the way human skin is supposed to look.
*Consciously, of course I know that people with tattoos aren't diseased. But tattoos trigger the "Stay away! He's/She's sick!" instinct in me.
So you know your reaction is wrong, why do you not change it? As you mentioned in that discussion about reaction to gay being icky.
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mvassilev
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 26, 2013 08:00 PM |
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What does it mean for my reaction to be wrong? I know they're not diseased, and I don't treat them as such. It's just an aesthetic preference (regardless of what its root cause is) and so it can't be right or wrong.
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Eccentric Opinion
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted July 26, 2013 08:01 PM |
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For someone who gives zero credit to the subconscious, those are very inconsistent explanations mvass. You can meet the girl of your dream and everything fits rationally but you cross it off for some subconscious relation to disease...
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted July 26, 2013 08:05 PM |
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I don't buy the "it's what is on the inside that counts" postmodernist swill. My ass it is.
If somebody walks around with torn up jeans, uncombed hair, and covered in tattoos like a walking art gallery, it's extremely likely that they are a disorganized, lazy, unproductive, underachieving human being. You can't inconsistently have it both ways, where you go out of your way to convey a "stand out" image for yourself, and then whine when people judge you. Either grow a pair and accept the inevitable consequences or change your presentation. Entirely your choice.
You can figure out a lot about a person based on their appearance, the objects they keep around them, their property, and their mannerisms. Any half-sane detective uses these tools to understand people, and so does the average person in everyday life. Why? Because - with a small margin of error - it works.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 26, 2013 08:09 PM |
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artu:
If she's the girl of my dreams, then she would be aesthetically appealing to me too, which means no tattoos. I know what my aesthetic tastes are, so it's not subconscious. Some of my aesthetics may have an evolutionary cause, but that's irrelevant. There's what my aesthetics are (which is conscious) and what causes them (which have various causes, some of them biological).
Blizzardboy also brings up a good point. I associate tattoos with hipsterish people, and they're information that the person who has the tattoo doesn't share my values.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted July 26, 2013 08:10 PM |
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The difference is massive weather it is uncombed hair or styled to look like uncomber hair. Sure everyone can be judged, but when one is being judged by morons then it doesn't count much, does it. There's a whole bunch of people being productive that look like that what you described.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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blizzardboy
Honorable
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Nerf Herder
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posted July 26, 2013 08:16 PM |
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It's also relative to the culture and the age group. A 25-year-old that dresses outlandishly is more likely to still be productive versus a 45-year-old that dresses the same way. I'm not attempting to erect unchangeable standards on a dress code, but the point is that when a person goes out of the way to look different and attention-grabbing compared to the cultural norm, it usually means something. Outside presentation reflects the inner reality.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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JoonasTo
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Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted July 26, 2013 08:18 PM |
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Quote: *Consciously, of course I know that people with tattoos aren't diseased. But tattoos trigger the "Stay away! He's/She's sick!" instinct in me.
Referring to this part speficically. Is this not the exact same instinctual reaction that gays trigger? "Stay away! He's sick!"
I see no reason to let your instinctual reactions sway your aesthetical preference anymore than your beliefs. After you've gotten rid of that reaction, perhaps you can make a sane judgement about your actual preferences, not a knee-jerk one.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted July 26, 2013 08:18 PM |
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Edited by Minion at 20:19, 26 Jul 2013.
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It sure does mean something, but in my experience it hasn't meant this so far "it's extremely likely that they are a disorganized, lazy, unproductive, underachieving human beings"
But I must say we come from different societies, so I am not sure if we should debate this at all
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 26, 2013 08:18 PM |
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artu said: For someone who gives zero credit to the subconscious, those are very inconsistent explanations mvass.
Because you can rationally explain why you have an erection now and why not then?
Let's not confuse again with friendship. A person can have a tatoo big like an elephant and this will not change my appreciation about. But on sexual tastes, anything which is "added" can turn off a lot of guys/girls. Some afrikan women think 30 cm lips are beautiful. Other put big fake tits, or remodel face/lips/nose until you see a ghost. All of them do this to increase the other's desire, yet the result can be opposite in many situations. Is life.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted July 26, 2013 08:24 PM |
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Edited by artu at 20:28, 26 Jul 2013.
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mainly @mvass but also
salamandre said: Because you can rationally explain why you have an erection now and why not then?
Blizz may had a point if we were living in the fifties. Today, there are a lot of subcultures and a person who's considered looking "disorganized, lazy, unproductive, underachieving" in a medical corporation may be considered "so cool and in fashion" if, say he is a rock star or the tone-master of that rock star or the most organized tour manager of that rock star. Music industry is just one example, there are others as well.
Anyway, my objection is not to you not finding tattooed people unattractive, it is your reasoning that I find inconsistent, because some time ago you said that the subconscious have minimal effect on us, it can make us have weird dreams and stuff, but it has no real power over our decisions. Now, you say you find tattooed people (even if the tattoo is very small and hardly noticeable) unattractive no matter what because they subconsciously remind you of diseased people. Don't try to turn this around on technicalities, it is indeed an inconsistency.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 26, 2013 08:25 PM |
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Joonas:Quote: I see no reason to let your instinctual reactions sway your aesthetical preference anymore than your beliefs.
The difference is that beliefs can be correct or incorrect, while aesthetics have no truth-value. If you arrive at a belief using an incorrect method (such as relying on your feeling of revulsion), you are likely to come to hold incorrect beliefs. When it comes to aesthetics, though, there's no such thing as an "incorrect aesthetic", so it doesn't matter how you form your aesthetic tastes.
artu:
"Disorganized, lazy, unproductive, underachieving" is just one example. "Hipster" is another. The main point is that people with tattoos are unlikely to share enough of my values.
As for "subconscious", there are different meanings of that word in different contexts.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted July 26, 2013 08:27 PM |
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But even if one shared your values you would not date them. That is the difference.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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mvassilev
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posted July 26, 2013 08:29 PM |
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minion:
Probably not, but I don't know. All the people I've met who have tattoos don't share enough of my values, but I don't know how I'd respond to a person who shares enough of my values but has a tattoo. It would still be a major minus, at least.
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Eccentric Opinion
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted July 26, 2013 08:32 PM |
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Quote: yes, you can tell a LOT about a person by their appearance
Of course you can, but from things like one's dressing style or tattooes you can say a lot about one's taste and style, rather than if they are disorganized or lazy. That characteristic stuff can be told more by looking at how clean the shirt is? Somebody may be wearing a rock n roll t-shirt or a suit, yet still may be both neat or sluggish.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted July 26, 2013 08:33 PM |
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Well, that is for you to find out. Maybe there is a signifigant enough message/value tattooed on her that you would not dislike.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted July 26, 2013 08:35 PM |
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artu said: From things like one's dressing style or tattooes you can say a lot about one's taste and style, rather than if they are disorganized or lazy.
+1
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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