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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted March 30, 2015 10:08 PM |
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aww, lazer-eye?!
horse-apples 
like it otherwise, really nice lineup 
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted March 30, 2015 11:21 PM |
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Edited by Avonu at 23:21, 30 Mar 2015.
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Ancient Behemoth said:
"Any group of Behemoth is led by an elder female called the Matriarch. I wonder if that's the key to understand their bond with the Desert Orcs as they, too, have traditionally been led by women..."
____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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Stormcaller
Famous Hero
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posted March 30, 2015 11:38 PM |
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It would seem I will indeed wait until inferno and fortress are released later in expansions ( hopefully ). Every faction so far bar Haven has been a huge dissapointed and orcs are no different. There's just too many creatures in each line-up that I don't like to overlook this.
Goblins... riding a basilisk? Seriously? Goblins? That's so intimidating. not. And I was really hoping we'll avoid harpies. They're just lame, nor do they belong to stronghold's power-style gameplay. At least goblins are considered lesser orcs in widespread fantasy, so they can be tolerated.
The only units are really like are Behemoth and Cyclops ( bar the stupid laser eye ability ) and maybe gnolls. Everyting else is mediocre to terrible.
Abilities are also very basic and copy-paste from previous game. " Mighty Pounce ". POUNCE? What's this, Behemoths turned into Kitty cats? Why not rename it to " Sir-pounce-a lot " instead? JEsus christ.
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Greenlore
Known Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 12:03 AM |
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Overall I really like this lineup.(although it is weird that they only list 2 warfare units,could it be that they don't have a healing unit?)
generally I am a fan of mythological creatures,so I am always happy if a lineup doesn't include any unnecessary units and this is the case here(Gnolls are ok because they are pretty close to werehyenas),they even mixed the goblin with the basilisk(which was likely done to include goblins into the lineup and to differentiate the basilisk and wyvern)
Generally they seem to favor attacking the enemy without giving them a chance to retaliate,I mean we have a shooter among the core and elite tiers,the harpies don't receive retaliation,the basilisks can prevent retaliation(either by attacking a small unit or with their petryfying ability),the cyclops seems to have a ranged attack and he and the behemoth have an attack that can hit multiple enemies at once(probably preventing retaliation from most of these enemies).
I also think it is a neat idea to mix the petryfying gaze of the basilisk with its critcal strike as it allows you to influence this ability a bit more(but well it also encourages you to take the luck path every time you play stronghold)
Overall the abilities are much better than the necropolis ones,as every unit here has its own unique ability(ok the unfettered thing is also something the golems have,but at least it is unique among the stronghold creatures)
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted March 31, 2015 12:09 AM |
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Greenlore said:
Overall the abilities are much better than the necropolis ones,as every unit here has its own unique ability(ok the unfettered thing is also something the golems have,but at least it is unique among the stronghold creatures)
Base Gnoll has no ability at all. Just saying.
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 12:23 AM |
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The behemoths are perfect. I'm happy with this Stronghold, though it's not clear to me why the upgraded cyclopses need a club if they shoot out of their eye.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 12:28 AM |
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mvassilev said:
The behemoths are perfect. I'm happy with this Stronghold, though it's not clear to me why the upgraded cyclopses need a club if they shoot out of their eye.
'Cause they still sweep. And likely get numeric upgrades when they are upgraded for their damage and attack stats.
Though I suppose they could "close range eye sweep", so who know.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted March 31, 2015 12:28 AM |
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I think the Gnoll is the only creature with a flanking Ranged attack - as long as an allied stack is engaging its target in melee. Nothing with free attacks or anything; that would make it much too powerful for a Core creature.
I'm not sure about the Cyclops' Sweeping Bash. The Bash component suggest a stun or perhaps a knockback, but the skill doesn't mention it explicitely. The Behemoth will likely only damage one creature with its leap, essentially stomping it into the ground, stunning it in the process; nothing in its ability mentions multiple targets.
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 12:35 AM |
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Maurice said:
I think the Gnoll is the only creature with a flanking Ranged attack - as long as an allied stack is engaging its target in melee. Nothing with free attacks or anything; that would make it much too powerful for a Core creature.
I'm not sure about the Cyclops' Sweeping Bash. The Bash component suggest a stun or perhaps a knockback, but the skill doesn't mention it explicitely. The Behemoth will likely only damage one creature with its leap, essentially stomping it into the ground, stunning it in the process; nothing in its ability mentions multiple targets.
After reading it again... yeah, that seems like the likely action for the Opportunity shot mechanic. Which makes them a bit boring, but not as crazy overpowered as I was imagining. This Flanking mechanic is kind of omnipresent already with melee units ganging up on targets, now a shooter can get in on the action.
And, yeah, the Mighty Pounce does say target, as in singular. Well, okay, the units aren't as fantastic as I thought they were at first glance, but it is solid. If flanking only requires a friendly melee unit near an enemy, then the Behemoth should allow for the Gnoll to get flank shots off, correct?
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 02:19 AM |
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That is not what I am seeing in "opportunity shot" description. We already have this "opportunity retaliation" from Justicar and IIRC the way it works is that if something attacks unit adjacent to Justicar in melee, both that unit and Justicar retaliates.
Taken from Heroes online, flanking works with ranged attacks anyway and the way this is worded suggests that if some Stronghold unit attacks an enemy unit and that enemy unit turned the back to the Gnoll, Gnoll will also attack it. This is the only way I think it can work judging from description, because anything else can't be considered as "taking an opportunity".
About Sweeping Bash, it is the same ability that Cyclops had in Heroes 5(first upgrade - Untamed Cyclops), but it was named crushing blow there. Untamed Cyclops was always attacking 4 tiles and had a chance to stun target.
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted March 31, 2015 02:23 AM |
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I would also like to suggest this: make Cyclop's bash hurt your own troops as well, like in H5. It will require the player to actually think how to attack with his mighty champion and not screw himself. And, it's kinda logical.
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 02:39 AM |
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Due to Maurice's and RMZ1989's comments, lets play: Dissect the sentence until it doesn't seem like it is made of words anymore!
Ahem:
Official Blog said:
Gnolls are vicious fighters. If one of their allies is attacking, they always try to use the opening to throw a dagger in the flank of the targeted foe.
If one of their allies is attacking: Does this mean if the ally is in position TO attack, or is literally attacking at that moment? Most boring, straight edge answer is the position, adjacent. The more radical off the wall is that they are attacking right now.
they always try to use the opening: What is this opening? The ally setting up their target via position, or actually distracting them due to stabbing them right then and there?
to throw a dagger in the flank of the targeted foe: Does this mean they get a "flanking" bonus? Does this mean they are just stabbing them in the hip, preparing them to be made into juicy flanksteaks?
YOU DECIDE!
(at least until Ubisoft comes and rains on your parade with the correct answer)
Compare with:
Official Blog said:
As their name suggests, they bring justice to the battlefield, supporting their nearby allies in retaliation, and adding tremendous damage to their line of defence. They work in perfect synergy with legionnaires, to create powerful armies with strong attack and defence.
For the Justicar, it specifically says "supporting nearby allies in retaliation", which if we applied the boring application, would mean that simply give a damage bonus to their buddies for retaliation. This would be rather uneventful, but, nothing in the skill actually states the Justicar retaliates with them. We all just assumed that yes, they do retaliate with their buddies.
Speaking of all this, how would flanking work in retaliation? Does flanking only work for initial attacks, or if you create some box formation of your dudes being diagonal and the enemy are also in the same 4 squares in the other diagonal, do you get the flanking bonus when you retaliate? With any character?
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 03:21 AM |
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Edited by RMZ1989 at 03:26, 31 Mar 2015.
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Flanking works when you are attacking a creature from behind, so I don't see how you can retaliate and flank at the same time(maybe it is possible with Justicars because of their ability).
About opportunity retaliation, yes we assumed that but H6 Legionnaire already had that ability(even though it wasn't called like that).
I don't know about Gnoll, but wording clearly says that they are attacking when his allies also attack. Now I don't know if they need to flank the opponent for this ability to proc, or whenever allies attack but you are reading way too much into it.
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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emilsn91
Supreme Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 08:59 AM |
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They took two of my favorite factions from H3 and put them together 
I am satisfied, but still a little confused about how the Gnoll fits in a desert themed faction.
The Basilisk rider does not look great in my eyes, but I am just so happy to see the basilisk again.
The worst creature on here is the Centaur. Mainly because I do not like the design at all. I think it is too skinny and frail looking.
But let us all rejoice as the Behemoth returns to wreak havoc on the world!
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted March 31, 2015 09:39 AM |
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emilsn91 said:
I am satisfied, but still a little confused about how the Gnoll fits in a desert themed faction.
Quite well, actually, for hyenas live in deserts as well.
____________
Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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EPICUSDOOMICUS
Known Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 11:23 AM |
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Well, contrary to what Ubi have done with/to other factions (especially my beloved Necros), they seem to have done a fairly good job with Stronghold.
Even goblin-(lizard rider) looks good, although I didn't really like the idea of lizard riders since H5.
Ofcourse the return of the Behs is areason for celebration, too.
The only little flaw I can see is the absence of Cyclops' ranged attack...
____________
To die in battle is the greatest glory.
To choose to do so is the greatest honor!
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Minastir
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 11:27 AM |
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Edited by Minastir at 11:37, 31 Mar 2015.
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EPICUSDOOMICUS said:
The only little flaw I can see is the absence of Cyclops' ranged attack...
but cyclops has ranged attack "
Fiery Eye - Chaos tainted blood provides Enraged Cyclops with the power to hit enemies from afar using the fire from their eye."
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 11:33 AM |
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Yeah, Cyclops has ranged attack, that is the main difference between him and Behemoth.
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted March 31, 2015 11:34 AM |
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RMZ1989 said:
Yeah, Cyclops has ranged attack, that is the main difference between him and Behemoth.
Both have a ranged attack. Cyclops shoot with their eyes, and Behemoths throw themselves at an enemy  .
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Sorts
Known Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 12:01 PM |
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Sandro400 said:
emilsn91 said:
I am satisfied, but still a little confused about how the Gnoll fits in a desert themed faction.
Quite well, actually, for hyenas live in deserts as well.
When i first played H3 i was mystified why there were "hyena-men" in a swamp town. And i still don't feel that they should belong in a swamp/jungle faction. Desert faction is a lot better fit.
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This thread is pages long: 
