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| Thread: The Gootch's Stupendous Guide To The Towns |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted March 27, 2003 06:07 AM |
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The Gootch's Stupendous Guide To The Towns
This thing has been a long time in the considerations stage.
In this I will discuss advantages, disadvantages, fatal flaws, and starting heroes of the towns. But, Conflux will not be included in this breakdown.
Starting with...
Castle
Advantages: Probably about the most straight forward town in the game. What you see is what you get. 2 units have a double attack and angels are only 2nd to the Ancients in terms of battlefield prowess.
Disadvantages: Probably the goofiest build requirements in the game. You need a mage guild and a blacksmith to get to your angels. So, week 1 you will be without the services of griffins and cavaliers if you decide(and who wouldn't) to go angels and castle.
Fatal flaws: None to speak of.
Heroes: None of the greats are available. Best potential is Orrin. Mullich is solid and so is Sorsha. As for the clerics, they suffer from the 2nd worst spread of skills available to mages. Adele is probably the best one of the lot.
Rampart
Advantages: Centaurs, dwarves, and elves will take you far in the early stages of the game. Unicorns are also very solid for this town, great stats and very cheap.
Disadvantages: The units don't blend well together. When main armies finally bring the noise, the Rampart falls apart. Also, with the requirement of Mage guild level 1 for the dragons, it makes better sense to get unis and Castle the first week.
Fatal flaws: Besides being aesthetically disgusting, there's few.
Heroes: Rangers are by far the strongest of the 2 classes. Kyrre is good and Mephala is an armorer. 'nuff said. Druids are horrible by and large. Only decent one is Elleshar.
Inferno
Advantages: Stupid me for ignoring demon farming for so long. Also, Sultans are incredibly strong. Devils can do things that other unupgrades level 7s can't and you can max lvl 7 and your castle while only losing 1 weeks worth of cerebri.
Disadvantages: Probably the most difficult town to play. It takes a lot of seasoning to get good with it. A small disadvantage is the stupid fireball attack of the magogs. Most times you're better off not upgrading them. Unfortunately, you'll be stuck with a speed 4 troop in your army because of that.
Fatal flaws: None
Heroes: The outstanding spread of skills available to both types more than makes up for the fact that none of the specials jump out at you. Personally, I like Pyrre.
Fortress
Advantages: Stupidly fast scouts, creatures have awesome specials. Moooooo. Basilisk is the most underrated creature in the game. Great synergy between the units.
Disadvantages: Hero needs tactics. Weak shooter. Wyvern is also a chink in the armor. Makes up for it though with hives. Numbers man. Needs a stupid amount of wood to make work.
Fatal Flaws: None whatsoever
Heroes: We get to our first uber-hero, Tazar. Alkin rocks, and Bron starts with Basilisks. As good as the might heroes are, the mages are equally worthless. They take the heaping-pile-of-horse-dung award when it comes to skills available to them. Avoid them at all costs.
Stronghold
Advantages: Yearrrghghgh! Attack, attack! Behemoths are the lord of the battlefield. No other unit in the game requires such focus by an opponent on the battlefield as the almighty Ancient does. Plus, you can start churning them out day 3 of most maps. Thunderbirds are incredible.
Disadvantages: Rock and crystal requirements are sheer lunacy. It's a good thing that the ancients are so tough because you'll be without the services of a significant number of 'clops.
Heroes: By and far the best in the game. Hack calls the Stronghold his home, as does Krellion(Thanks Rych). Battle Mages are great because they aren't...well...mages.
Terek, Dessa, and Gundula stand out.
Fatal flaws: 20 rock and crystal for lvl 6. Devastating.
Necropolis
Advantages: A gazillion skellies, vamps, and dread knights. Low resource requirements for the initial build.
Disadvantages: Weak starting 3 and uber-weak lvl 7.
Heroes: Fantastic. Galthran, Isra, and Vidomania. Anything else is a pretender.
Fatal flaw: None
Note: Necro is joining the ranks of Conflux on random maps. Too powerful and unbalancing...
Dungeon
Advantages: A horde of trogs, mana vortex(god what were they thinking?), minos
Disadvantages: Mage Guild requirement prevents first week Dragons and Castle. Other than that, a very well balanced town. Wait a sec, why on gods green earth do Medusas have only 4 shots?
Heroes: Shakti, Gunnar or bust. Am I the only one with a big grin on my face with Ajit in my tavern as well? Res Warlocks are good for teaching...assuming you can get a scholar. I've heard about the almighty Malekith. Trust me, Zydar is better.
Fatal Flaws: None
And now for the object of my rancor...
Tower
Advantages: Nagas, 3 ranged, loads of spells, and golems
Disadvantages: See fatal flaws
Heroes: If not for Neela, the Tower would be sucking skinny big time. I just can't stand the fact that she's also a scholar. Solmyr gets the most overrated-hero-of-the-year award.
Fatal Flaws: Where do I start? Level 4 build requirement is absolutely ridiculous. It was taken straight from Heroes II, when the Magi were the 2nd most powerful units for that town. Units are too expensive, and too slow. Some of you may point out that while the Tower's fastest creatures have a speed of 11, the stronghold's fastest creature has only an 11 speed as well. Yet, it is not listed as a fatal flaw. My retort is...Behemoths. The tower does not have a creature with the damage capacity of the Behemoth. Yeah, shoot'em. Yeah, you might be able to kill a few. It doesn't matter...one swipe and you'll realize you just didn't kill enough.
Feedback, anyone?
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The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted March 27, 2003 06:10 AM |
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Damn Gootch! That's a fantastic thread! Normally you're just a foul-mouthed wannabe comedian.
I can't believe you actually put together something of substance.
Maybe I won't keep skipping over your posts from here on in
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Kuma
Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
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posted March 27, 2003 08:01 AM |
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LordLazy
Promising
Famous Hero
Wood cleaner
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posted March 27, 2003 08:33 AM |
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EXTREME GOOTCH!!!!!!, AMAZING......INCREDIBLE......
U IS BE RULEZ....Seriously: We can't have a homm3 tactics thread with no Lazy quoting
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Castle
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Disadvantages: Probably the goofiest build requirements in the game. You need a mage guild and a blacksmith to get to your angels. So, week 1 you will be without the services of griffins and cavaliers if you decide(and who wouldn't) to go angels and castle.
Since I agree an most of it...it's mostly principal   j/k.
Building mage guild day 1 wont excactly be an disadvantage.....but I do agree....also...if enough wood maybe it would be smarter to go for cavaliers and castle....as that will leave some money left for capitol and angels week2 instead.. (If rich enough map that is)
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Heroes: None of the greats are available. Mullich is solid and so is Sorsha. As for the clerics, they suffer from the 2nd worst spread of skills available to mages. Adele is probably the best one of the lot.
I think u've forgotten Christian....which is, together with all artillery heroes....just kicks @ss!....also Loynis aint bad.....except for his starting skills (learning), but also, when having it right from the beginning, is the only way that skill is useful anyway...so it might not be too bad afterall....
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Fortress
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Disadvantages: Hero needs tactics. Weak shooter. Wyvern is also a chink in the armor. Makes up for it though with hives. Numbers man. Needs a stupid amount of wood to make work.
true about the wood, but on most randoms wood wont be a problem anyway.....also....u forgot to mention the fact that u might get wyverns first day, which again makes a hero with first aid specialty a good choice afterall.
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Heroes: We get to our first uber-hero, Tazar. Alkin rocks, and Bron starts with Basilisks. As good as the might heroes are, the mages are equally worthless. The take the heaping pile of horse dung award when it comes to skills available to them. Avoid them at all costs.
Those mages aint necceserily worse than other ones....as u will get spells from other castles, but mainly, might heroes is better when using such a town. But a useful mage with Fortress would be the one with First aid spec (dont remember her name thou) When It comes to Tazar.....ya he's good....but I prefer Neela, as she wont suck when it comes to magic....and wont suck when it comes to might....thus making her powerful in all aspects of the game...also, She starts with a spell book, which eliminate the need of building mage guild day 1.....
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Stronghold
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Heroes: By and far the best in the game. Hack calls the Stronghold his home, as does Krellion(Thanks Rych). Battle Mages are great because they aren't...well...mages.
Terek and Gundula stand out.
I prefer Gundula over Hack, simply because she will gain more in defens...so if wandering stacks gets moral, u wont lose as much as with hack.....generally......defense is better against wandering stacks than attack is.
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Dungeon
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Disadvantages: Mage Guild requirement prevents first week Dragons and Castle. Other than that, a very well balanced town. Wait a sec, why on gods green earth do Medusas have only 4 shots?
Then u go Manticores and castle...simple....also...just to make it clear....I'm not taling about playin on any of those n00bie ToH maps.....And when it comes to Medusas...they only have 4 shots because they fight well in close combat....
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Heroes: Shakti, Gunnar or bust. I've heard about the almighty Malekith. Trust me, Zydar is better.
U forgot Dace, which definitaly belongs together with Shakti and Gunnar, coz of the fact that he starts with tactics too... And when it comes to Malekith vs Zydar = Totally agree 
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Tagged officially as Noobegian two years ago. This typographic material is strictly copyrighted. All situations containing abuse will be brought to court.
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Odvin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 27, 2003 12:12 PM |
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Well, I must say that I agree on most points, plus some things were new to me. I'm not the best HoMM player, you know...
Overall: good job.
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silx87
Supreme Hero
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posted March 27, 2003 03:41 PM |
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Yeap,I agree with most of it!
I can't see how so many ppl can like tower so much!I hate tower!
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The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted March 28, 2003 12:41 AM |
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Point and counterpoint
LordLazy, some of these things are a matter of preference. I don't like Sir_Christian. In fact, I don't like artillery heroes in general(exception...stronghold). Why I like Pyrre is because the demoniacs have an incredible array of skill available to them. That and she starts with logistics.
2. You've raised some controversial points about the Fortress. If you're able to build your wyverns day 1, then that means you can build your serpent flies day 1 also. Call it a preference, but I prefer to give my scouts that 9 speed so that they may start marauding the land. They way I see it, there's only one reason to build wyverns day 1...gold mine with a fight. As for Verdish...I don't mind starting with her in the tavern. I'll take a free first aid tent any day. But she is a witch, and I'll get into that in a second.
My problem with the Witches is not the spell selection, which obviously favors water. My problem is twofold...
#1. No other hero in the game has a higher chance of getting a bonus to power and knowledge in the game for levels 2-9. No one. Take a look at the Fortress units, notice their specials, and you realize that the longer the fight, the better the chance that a death gaze, a stoning, venom etc. will happen. The high spell power that the Witch will have won't mean squat with an icebolt or a frostring. The best spells for the Fortress are bless, cure, and teleport(besides shield, duh).
#2. Take a look at mmportals for the hero classes and what skills are available to them at what percentage. The kind of skills available to the witches are horrendous. They have too high of a chance of getting eagle eye, learning, navigation...ugh. It's crap. Sheer crap. It's skills that make the hero and the witch has a distinct disadvantage in that department.
As for Dace, you can't go wrong with offense and tactics. He and Shak are clones in that department. What it comes down to is bonuses for their specialties and how it pans out in a game.
Dace, and this is only my opinion, doesn't help out minos as much as shak helps out trogs.
First, trogs are your initial troop. With gremlin rush out of the way, Dungeon arguably has the fastest start. Also, with his speed bonus and native terrain, trogs have a 6 speed. That means that they can potentially attack a stationary unit on the battlefield on their 2nd move. That is crucial in attacking ranged creatures.
Minos to me are in that no-man's-land of speed. It's good, but not great. With Dace, Kings, and native terrain you'll get a 10 speed. Tactics notwithstanding, that isn't enough to cross the screen and attack a stationary target in one move.
It's small I know, but it is noticeable.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted March 28, 2003 08:26 AM |
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I scrolled to see what you said about Fortress.
I bel;ieve it's more of personal opinions then all facts but dont get me wrong it's not bad.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Pollo2002
Famous Hero
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posted March 28, 2003 09:58 AM |
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There is more, than one condition and difficulty
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Starting with...
Castle
Advantages: Probably about the most straight forward town in the game. What you see is what you get. 2 units have a double attack and angels are only 2nd to the Ancients in terms of battlefield prowess.
Disadvantages: Probably the goofiest build requirements in the game. You need a mage guild and a blacksmith to get to your angels. So, week 1 you will be without the services of griffins and cavaliers if you decide(and who wouldn't) to go angels and castle.
Easy to say....you must take into account it completly depends on the map, and richness, I personally play 160% and poor maps, Talking of geting angels on first week is like talking of geting gold in the back of my house. And most player i know, play in settings near like my settings.
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Fatal flaws: None to speak of.
Heroes: None of the greats are available. Best potential is Orrin. Mullich is solid and so is Sorsha. As for the clerics, they suffer from the 2nd worst spread of skills available to mages. Adele is probably the best one of the lot.
I agree on Orrin, but i prefer Valeska to start off instead of sorsha. Or maybe crhistian. (anyway, i wills till choosing Orrin)
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Rampart
Advantages: Centaurs, dwarves, and elves will take you far in the early stages of the game. Unicorns are also very solid for this town, great stats and very cheap.
Disadvantages: The units don't blend well together. When main armies finally bring the noise, the Rampart falls apart. Also, with the requirement of Mage guild level 1 for the dragons, it makes better sense to get unis and Castle the first week.
Again i will tell you always asume Too much richnes in my opinion. But i won't point you this anymore, since you did it in every town.
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Fatal flaws: Besides being aesthically disgusting, there's few.
Heroes: Rangers are by far the strongest of the 2 classes. Kyrre is good and Mephala is an armorer. 'nuff said. Druids are horrible by and large. Only decent one is Elleshar.
Kyrre is in my opinion the second best hero in the game, And a real uber hero, speed is all that mater, at least you play those 4 towns map, or small, medium-nounder maps. IN that case i prefer fast skilled heroes like Ivor.
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Inferno
Advantages: Stupid me for ignoring demon farming for so long
I really want good ideas to it...daemon farming is hard to do....and sometimes you can really exploit it. I do really. But not as much as some people say they can.
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Heroes: The outstanding spread of skills available to both types more than makes up for the fact that none of the specials jump out at you. Personally, I like Pyrre.
Completly agree.
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Heroes: We get to our first uber-hero, Tazar. Alkin rocks, and Bron starts with Basilisks. As good as the might heroes are, the mages are equally worthless. They take the heaping-pile-of-horse-dung award when it comes to skills available to them. Avoid them at all costs.
Tazar uber hero? i will chose tazar any day as main hero, but i don't think it's an uber hero...where only 2 heroes in my opinion can be so considered....those are Gunnar and Kyrre. Maybe Ryland, but Ryland is a very map dependant.
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Stronghold
Advantages: Yearrrghghgh! Attack, attack! Behemoths are the lord of the battlefield. No other unit in the game requires such focus by an opponent on the battlefield as the almighty Ancient does. Plus, you can start churning them out day 3 of most maps. Thunderbirds are incredible.
Agree...Behmots are the best 7th level unit in the game (cost-Building-requiremnts-strength-etc)
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Heroes: By and far the best in the game. Hack calls the Stronghold his home, as does Krellion(Thanks Rych). Battle Mages are great because they aren't...well...mages.
Terek, Dessa, and Gundula stand out.
Again.....agin, Crack hack is the best main battle hero in the game. But i prefer a hero that Decide when to battle, when not, Develop faster and can take towns faster. If crag hack go for you're towns, gunnar can do the same, But he will conquer towns at a major rate than crag hack does. I have won games with no sight of main battles. Gunnar or kyrre running in the map, conquering towns, and killing secondary heros. At the point crag hack gets tired and go to drink a beer. Again it depens on the map. If you play a medium map and those with 4 towns...i prefer crag hack, since gunnar and kyrre needs space to run...they can run in a 128 x 128 map.
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Necropolis
Advantages: A gazillion skellies, vamps, and dread knights. Low resource requirements for the initial build.
Disadvantages: Weak starting 3 and uber-weak lvl 7.
Heroes: Fantastic. Galthran, Isra, and Vidomania. Anything else is a pretender.
Agree.. but i like thant.
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Fatal flaw: None
no good early stages units is a fatal flaw. More in poor maps.
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Note: Necro is joining the ranks of Conflux on random maps. Too powerful and unbalancing...
Again it is because of the maps. There are hundred maps where necro aren't that powerfull, same maps Ryland isn't a good hero....anyway, conflux, is always the conflux!
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Dungeon
Advantages: A horde of trogs, mana vortex(god what were they thinking?), minos
The mana vortex is a think i really don't get yet...what were they thinking? So, i agree.
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Heroes: Shakti, Gunnar or bust. Am I the only one with a big grin on my face with Ajit in my tavern as well? Res Warlocks are good for teaching...assuming you can get a scholar. I've heard about the almighty Malekith. Trust me, Zydar is better.
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I really prefer zydar, i don't get many experience with other heroes, since the best hero all around can have a match with other heroes. Gunnar is the best of all, Speed speed speed, tactis, can excellent stats increment and secondary skills to get.
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Tower
Advantages: Nagas, 3 ranged, loads of spells, and golems
Heroes: If not for Neela, the Tower would be sucking skinny big time. I just can't stand the fact that she's also a scholar. Solmyr gets the most overrated-hero-of-the-year award.
Solymir is no the titan most players say, but surely he brings one of the only two spells a magic hero needs to even match a might hero. That's not few. And Cyra is not a bad magic hero. But neela is an excellent hero, and in my opinion better than the ALL MIGHTY TAZAR.
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Fatal Flaws: Where do I start? Level 4 build requirement is absolutely ridiculous. It was taken straight from Heroes II, when the Magi were the 2nd most powerful units for that town. Units are too expensive, and too slow. Some of you may point out that while the Tower's fastest creatures have a speed of 11, the stronghold's fastest creature has only an 11 speed as well. Yet, it is not listed as a fatal flaw. My retort is...Behemoths. The tower does not have a creature with the damage capacity of the Behemoth. Yeah, shoot'em. Yeah, you might be able to kill a few. It doesn't matter...one swipe and you'll realize you just didn't kill enough.
Tower is not a bad town. They can get giants early on....sure you can't belive how early tahn other towns when you can have 20000 GK in chest....but all the maps aren't that. They have the master of the ranged units..and that is a good point. Anyway, i agree with the highly mage build cost. But is the only town i bet for a magic hero in some maps, since the library. They're not the best town, but it doesen't suck.
Well, there is my end, i think the most important thing i have to say is the fact is like you talk all the game like if always is played under the same conditions and rules.
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silx87
Supreme Hero
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posted March 28, 2003 01:11 PM |
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Tower is not a bad town. They can get giants early on....sure you can't belive how early tahn other towns when you can have 20000 GK in chest....but all the maps aren't that. They have the master of the ranged units..and that is a good point. Anyway, i agree with the highly mage build cost. But is the only town i bet for a magic hero in some maps, since the library. They're not the best town, but it doesen't suck.
Tower sucks reeeaal baad!U can't get Giants early!U'll be too busy looking for resources!The good thing is they're start:master gremlins!After that they realy suck!I don't see shooting as an advantage!It is good in opem field combat,cuz u won't suffer much casualties,but flyers realy rule the field!They are good for any occasion,while walking units take time to reach the enemy,cuz they are usually slower,shooters use only half damage over high range!And only a quarter of their original damage!Not counting Archmages and Sharpshooters of course!In siege,shooters will be your demise!They usually have less hp(cept for titan) and low skills(cept for titans) and cost more(THE TITAN!!!!).The library is a good thing,but it doesn't give u more advantage than the vortex!Sure u have much spells,but U won't have powerful casters to use them!The alchemist of course is one of the best casters(with d.knight)among might heroes.Andu won't be using all of them anyway,but u will have a greater chance of getting some spells u realy want(fly,portal,DD,berserk etc.)
The Tower is xtremely weak in siege combat!However they are a tough enemy in defence.On the hwole,I think Tower sucks reeeely baad!
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Well, there is my end, i think the most important thing i have to say is the fact is like you talk all the game like if always is played under the same conditions and rules.
Say whah?
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silx87
Supreme Hero
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posted March 29, 2003 04:32 PM |
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I usually reply to things I can comment!(usually,not always)
But if u realy need to know,I also disagree that Neela is better than Taz!She is,infact,not!IMO,Crag is the best hero.Alchemists usually suck,cuz they usually get pointless skills like learning or scholar,buth their advantage is that they can learn any skill,if only offered.There is just a greater chance to get some skills than other.
I can't comment on your whole post,I have nohing to say about it,I mostly agree though.
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Nidhgrin
Honorable
Famous Hero
baking cookies from stardust
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posted March 29, 2003 05:00 PM |
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Great thread Gootch!
I agree on the not taking wyverns day 1 part also. Usually equipping your scouts with rock'n roll speed units day 1 gets you a lot further faster than having those 2 wyverns day 1. Lizardmen and gnolls (who knows even some basilisks  ) can get you through those day 1 battles easily.
I agree with pollo on the uber hero thing though. Speed is usually everything. The larger the map, the more important that becomes. Though Taz, Hack and their friends rule over the battlefield, what if their opponent has a hero that has crossed 1/4 of map more, having nicer arties, dropped by more stat boosters, ...
Good job!
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted March 30, 2003 08:57 AM |
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Wyverns are great to take day 1.
Have your scout take the 2 wyverns & scroll around your native territory while your main does his thang.
You know how powerful Wyverns actually are compared to fighting lv1 & 2 & possibly some lv 3 creatures.
The scouts best friend day 1 is the 2 wyverns LOL especially on randoms.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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KittenAngel
Supreme Hero
Lee's wifey
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posted March 30, 2003 11:08 AM |
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Great job gootch +qp applied!
Also I think you forgot a town!! Where is conflux at?!?!?!?!
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Never wear anything that panics
the cat.
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Pollo2002
Famous Hero
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posted March 30, 2003 11:33 AM |
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Yes
Thanks six for you're answer!
And angel....i think there is no point on writing about conflux, is SO unbalanced...argg....I think anyone with two fingers, will not accept to play it or against it. Some people say the same about necro, i don't think the same, it mostly depens on map.
And yes....... Gunnar and kyrre are size map dependant, On an X-Large map, i will play Dungeon or rampart for the only rason i will have them.
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silx87
Supreme Hero
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posted March 30, 2003 11:46 AM |
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Quote:
Also I think you forgot a town!! Where is conflux at?!?!?!?!
The conflux is in the beginning of his post.
Right where he sais hes not gonna discuss about it
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Kittenangel
Supreme Hero
Lee's wifey
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posted March 30, 2003 10:29 PM |
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Here is my advice for conflux......
don't worry about money buildings go for all creatures and mage guild first then upgrade your fire magic and birds. Get expert fire and armageddon, take only phoneix fier and magic elementals and DISTROY ALL!!!!!!!
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Never wear anything that panics
the cat.
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rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted March 31, 2003 05:32 AM |
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Nice thread Gootch, and some of the replies gave me a great laugh...Neela better than Taz...lol. Taz not being an "uber-hero"...lol. Keep em coming nøøbs
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Myctteakyshd
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LordLazy
Promising
Famous Hero
Wood cleaner
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posted March 31, 2003 09:19 AM |
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I tell u when my posts is a joke or not..
One thing I can tell u is...that I might not be one of the best players available...but I ensure u...there is no guide tellin what's best everytime...evryday....and things like this is something a so called vet should know....
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Tagged officially as Noobegian two years ago. This typographic material is strictly copyrighted. All situations containing abuse will be brought to court.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted April 01, 2003 11:13 PM |
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Ok Rych why not I will take Dessa over Gunnar anyday of the week.
You can never go wrong with a battle mage
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Dreaming of a Better World
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