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Salamandre
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posted May 24, 2025 11:50 AM |
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artu said:
Lol, that’s really some overblown news.
Like everything in this thread, isn't the goal ? 
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JollyJoker
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posted May 24, 2025 12:06 PM |
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artu said:
Lol, that’s really some overblown news. There aren’t health inspectors roaming the streets and ordering people to lose weight or anything like that. It must be some health campaign or something but it’s not even in the news or social media here.
Btw, you know that Bachmann is actually Stephen King, right?
You couldn't miss it, then. I was still reading German translation versions and every Bachman book had a "Bachman ist King" label on it.
I use the Bachman name, because King uses it himself and seems very keen on keeping the impression that Bachman was somehow different from him, even going to Bachman's funeral (that they arranged to lay the alter ego to rest).
About the weight thing - I actually like the idea. It's a real problem, and with the sugar lobby being able to prevent high taxes on sugar and sugared procducts and sugar being used in lots and lots of stuff you wouldn't dream of and the fastfood sector is still going strong (and stronger, when you include the ready-meals), overweight is a real problem.
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blizzard
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posted May 24, 2025 04:05 PM |
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Edited by blizzard at 16:40, 24 May 2025.
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The problem with the fat shaming thing, other than that it is just mean, is that it leads to mental health problems with people more and more wanting to fit an "ideal" image.
And there is no such thing an ideal image. Like, some women are just naturally going to carry more weight around their hips on average. BMI is a flawed metric to use when it comes to health.
And people with ethnic backgrounds outside of Eurasia tend to have a harder time processing a junk food/sugar diet (or with processing alcohol). That's one of the reasons Pacific Islanders are so fat, although their diet is also quite abysmal. They haven't figured out a way to deep fry a glass of water yet, but I am sure their top experts will soon crack the case.
East Asians don't accumulate subcutaneous fat as easily (the fat underneath their skin) but they still accumulate visceral fat (the fat between organs). The visceral fat is much more serious. So, the relative thinness is a trap.
Rats in New York City have adapted to processing human food. No joke. The little basterds are going to have a written language soon. They should be taxed on the human food they eat.
I think it's better to just hit the sugar/corn syrup/whatever industry at their wallets through taxes to discourage people from wanting to buy. You could include other things on the list as well. Junk food in the USA is cheap, and when I say cheap, I mean a few dollars for a family-sized bag of potato chips.
And then financially subsidize purchasing turkey, pumpkin, apples, peanut butter, etc. All of the most objectively superior foods on the planet. That should be part of international law.
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Ghost
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Therefore I am
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posted May 24, 2025 04:51 PM |
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Ok I read* the sugar aberration in history.. Ok we go to short and future.. In the 1990s, a researcher said sugar makes people fat! In the 2000's, they will correct the mistake i.e. sugar isn't a problem, but today sugar is a problem.. What about me? I lost 24kg (52.91 pounds) weight.. And sugar free will destroy your teeth.. In Finland, government has planned sugar and fat tax, when Finnish people have hoped.. But many or also of them buy sugar and fat.. So shop/market has started to sell sugar free mostly, thus cheaper.. They can try what they wanted..
*scientific magazine.. So I talked about sugar risky, many friends don't believed in my half-super materialistic magazine.. Because healthcare never talked about it.. Today healthcare has developed so much, and they speard a fact e.g. in news..
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JollyJoker
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posted May 24, 2025 06:53 PM |
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On a personal level no one cares whether people are abysmally fat. Same way as heavy smoking, drinking and so on.
But on a societal level fat people COST a ton in terms of healthcare because they simply have a high(er) risk of getting all kinds of ailments and sicknesses. Same as with smoking, drinking and so on.
Which means, yes, stuff should become more expensive - but as with cigarettes and alcohol this doesn't work.
The problem is that most ready-meals are as bad for your HEALTH than, say cigaretes, while sugar has the same addiction level than cocain - which isn't actually known to the bigger public, nor touted that way. Fastfood on the other hand not only is in a certain way addictive, the diet itself is a problem because it doesn't make you feel sated for a long time (due to the ingredients and the body chemistry).
No joke, by the way, but a Japanese study recently found out that people conceived in winter (when it's cold), burn fat better than others, so people born something like August to November (in the Northern half) will on average be slimmer than others. (This is because the sperm changes in some way, when it gets cold).
If you don't believe that, google it.
In any case there is a disparity when it comes to fastfood and sugar which should be addressed, no matter how.
Now, sure, there ARE problems with fat shaming - but they start in childhood. As you know, children are cruel and calling a fat child fatty or piggy or anything like it is pretty normal. Next stop - dating in highschool. Next stop - every yountry with conscription. Next stop - application: fat people are disadvantaged because - if they don't have any sickness making them so - they are considered indisciplined, which is bad in many ways. And so on and so forth.
So the MAIN thing is to make sure that PARENTS make sure their children won't get fat - THAT is the actual societal task.
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blizzard
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posted May 24, 2025 07:40 PM |
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Edited by blizzard at 19:41, 24 May 2025.
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Taxing unhealthy food (and cigarettes and alcohol) does have a measurable impact on consumption. There have been extensive studies on this. If you're already addicted it probably won't do anything, but it does cause societal changes in the long-term, especially for new generations, which dont eat the same way.
Teaching and habituating people to cook also has a measurable impact, because it makes it much less intimidating. Even something as simple as a slow-cooker. Just throw a roast beef inside, add some apple slices and radishes and carrots and whatever spices you want, and wallah, when you come home later you have awesomely tasty and nutritious food. It's easy, but a lot of people lack the technical skills.
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JollyJoker
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posted May 24, 2025 07:51 PM |
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I completely disagree. While the percentage of smokers went down in the last 25 years, it's (in the Western countries) basically from one third to a qurater, which isn't much, considering the ad ban, the printed warnings and the banning of indoor smoking.
Alcohol consumption is pretty stable - no matter the ad ban and the high prices at least in some countries.
The prices are NOT discouraging. They aren't discouraging for "hard" drugs either.
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Ghost
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posted May 24, 2025 07:55 PM |
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I heard an American school foods are snowing, so Finnish student and/or exchange student is going out to eat for healthy foods, but guess what? In Finland foods are too healthy, students are going out to eat junk food.. Two-brained! I don't know Finnish nor English, but ok
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blizzard
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posted May 24, 2025 07:58 PM |
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Edited by blizzard at 20:02, 24 May 2025.
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In the US, there are measurable improvements in eating behavior with each new generation. A lot of this is credited to education and awareness, but a tax would also help.
For countries that have these taxes, you have to ask what it would be like WITHOUT them. Like, the Mediterreanan diet in Italy is being erased and replaced , so these more addictive alternatives should be taxed.
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Ghost
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posted May 24, 2025 08:02 PM |
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Finnish student told to Finnish magazine..
And tax doesn't help..
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Salamandre
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posted May 24, 2025 08:15 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
So the MAIN thing is to make sure that PARENTS make sure their children won't get fat - THAT is the actual societal task.
100% agree. But. What you mean "make sure" ?
The only way to make sure something is penalize. The state knows how to make sure you pay your taxes, right?
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JollyJoker
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posted May 24, 2025 08:25 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
That said, an even better idea might be to make parents pay for their overweight children. Monthly weighing at school, and for every pound of excessive weight parents had to pay a fine.
You know, tackling things at the root.
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Salamandre
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posted May 24, 2025 08:54 PM |
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Good luck into implementing that, when we know that overall, the prevalence of obesity and severe obesity is highest among black women in USA, for example.
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blizzard
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posted May 24, 2025 09:03 PM |
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Edited by blizzard at 21:16, 24 May 2025.
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I'm glad you two found something you agree on.
Financially punishing parents of overweight children is a hilariously vindictive and stupid idea.
Where do you think most of the obesity is at? Rich families? Middle class?
In the US, it is concentrated in the south and the midwest, and it is concentrated in working/lower class.
And I'm 100% positive it works the same way in Europe, like with Muslims in France.
Edit: yep. AI was too scared to say it, but poor people in France are much fatter, so financially punishing them will just make things worse.
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JollyJoker
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posted May 24, 2025 09:17 PM |
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It's ALWAYS the lower classes that SUFFER from addiction. Rich people can afford everything, from BEING addicted to get off, be it by personal trainers or expensive rehabs pr private clinics.
Doesn't seem to bother anyone. I mean, when you look at US prisons and people being in it because of drug crimes - how many are lower class? All? 99.99%?
So don't give me that crap about "lower classes suffering". They are suffering anyway, no matter what.
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Ghost
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posted May 24, 2025 09:19 PM |
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Salamandre
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posted May 24, 2025 09:20 PM |
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yes, I am for penalizing as well, moreover for a couple of pathologies where the tax payer has enough of endlessly supporting, like healthcare for heavy drinkers, heavy smokers and so on. That is on the theoretical aspect, now I know for sure this will never happen, electorally it would be a suicide. But it should be on the debate, you don't get rid of bad habits by denying or excusing them.
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Ghost
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posted May 24, 2025 09:26 PM |
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And ADHD can be criminal.. I read so.. I asked from Christian friend how does the Law of Moses punish the innocent tourette syndrome, ADHD, etc Christian friend can't say anything.. Do you know the Bible punish overeatings.. Your idea is dead! I hope also belief..
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blizzard
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posted May 24, 2025 09:29 PM |
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Edited by blizzard at 21:32, 24 May 2025.
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JollyJoker said:
It's ALWAYS the lower classes that SUFFER from addiction. Rich people can afford everything, from BEING addicted to get off, be it by personal trainers or expensive rehabs pr private clinics.
Doesn't seem to bother anyone. I mean, when you look at US prisons and people being in it because of drug crimes - how many are lower class? All? 99.99%?
So don't give me that crap about "lower classes suffering". They are suffering anyway, no matter what.
The difference is that being on probation/a mandatory rehab program actually decreases rates of drug use. It is helpful, even if the person complains about it the entire time. Prison can also be helpful depending on how things are run.
Taxes are also helpful because they are preventative and help shape long-term habits.
But finanically punishing people with kids after the kids are already fat is just dumb, because people with school-age kids need money the most.
And as Sal correctly noted, politicians will get eaten alive with those kind of laws. I mean, literally. All you need is a good salt rub and a tenderizer.
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JollyJoker
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posted May 24, 2025 09:36 PM |
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@ Salamandre
All true, but not conclusive. What about high stress jobs? Docs, police, firemen; people with stressfuil working times or emotional distress. These people have all "more reason" to have dangerous habits. In addition their jobs are unhealthy.
What about people that actually suffer because of their parents? Damage in the womb, damage because parents were a bad example, and so on?
You cannot penalize people for the result of something that was completely ok in the past. So people who started smoking because their parents and friends did and smoking was still completely ok can't be penalized by increasing their health insurance fees or leaving them to themselves.
You gave to start with forcing parents to better care for their children.
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This thread is pages long: 
