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blizzard
Famous Hero
Urban Legend
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posted May 25, 2025 10:34 PM |
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Edited by blizzard at 22:54, 25 May 2025.
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No, sugar is exceedingly more integrated in society.
It's not about how alcoholic drinks have been around for thousands of years and refined sugar is newer. It is the fact that sugar is in endless products since anybody on Earth has been alive and alcohol is not.
And it's the fact that sugar is universally appealing. Meaning, you can go to any remote tribe anywhere on Earth and give them something sweet and they will like the taste. It doesnt work the same way with alcohol (or sour or bitter or spicy stuff). All of that is acquired taste.
Giving a toddler an ice cream cone and giving a toddler a shot of whiskey is not the same thing. Again, you are way overreliant on your analogies.
And to answer your question, I don't honestly care if a bottle of grape juice has 1% alcohol volume and a minor happens to take a sip, although age laws related to alcohol do exist for sensible reasons. There are stipulations in state laws related to alcohol that it doesn't matter if a minor happens to have a very small amount in their home. It is not something that you would get in trouble for. Nobody is going to show up at your door with an arrest warrant because Billy Junior had a gulp of wine.
And I again invite you to go ahead and try to implement this puritanical stuff. Run for public office. I give your chances just about zero.
Now, in the more distant future, when sugar consumption is greatly diminished (assuming we get that far), could you do this stuff? Yep. You could. Right now? You stand no chance.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 25, 2025 10:50 PM |
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You sound like an addict. 
Toddlers don't like "sweet" things like ice cream: They are TOO sweet. You can easily verify this yourself: Avoid "sweet" products for a couple of days, THEN eat something sweet like ice or common chocolate or drink a regular sugared soft drink. Everything contracts like you'd bitten in a lemon.
Same with salt, mind you. Everything is so much salted nowadays. We consume too much salt because things are salted too much.
Same with sugar.
And in that regard it works completely like drugs. You develop a habit.
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blizzard
Famous Hero
Urban Legend
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posted May 25, 2025 10:57 PM |
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Edited by blizzard at 23:01, 25 May 2025.
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Yawn.
You sound like the uncle at Thanksgiving who thinks he's brilliant because he figured out something obvious.
And no, that is complete horse****. You can give an Amazonian ice cream and they are almost 100% guaranteed to like it. They are familiar with honey, and ice cream is not as sweet as honey.
You have zero chance of implementing your ideas. You know it.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 26, 2025 12:07 AM |
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Christ. Go and educate yourself.
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Blizzard
Famous Hero
Urban Legend
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posted May 26, 2025 12:19 AM |
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I have an Amazonian council of elders in my livingroom right now and they all think you are 100% wrong.
Seriously, sweetness is a universal thing. It isn't like other types of taste. That's why you can give something sweet to just about anybody.
You can't just make up ideas that sound nice on paper but aren't implementable. A sugar tax is much easier to do than a sugar ban.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 26, 2025 09:28 AM |
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Ok, I get: you don't get it. There is this "too x" condition of which you don't seem to have ever heard. Every had too salty? Too hot? Too sweet? Too sour? The thing is, people are getting used to "too". Say, Indians and "hot". If you are not used to Indian "hot" food - good luck eating it. Same with sweet. Yes, sweet is nice. if it's a natural occurance. Everyone likes a sweet fruit. But give someone not used to refined sugar something really sweet and it's TOO sweet.
See, that's the problem with a lot of our foodstuff: there is a lot of stuff in it that is UNNECESSARY. In the same way you have tons of sugar in regular ketchup, for example, you have tons of salt in others, so that the flavor is enhanced. So people who eat lots of highly processed food (fastfood is part of that) eat much more salt then is good for them.
And you should know that price increase via tax increase doesn't do anything when it is about addiction (and this IS about addiction). The more money the addicts have to spend on their habit the less is left for what is actually needed.
Whether something will happen or not is of no concern for this, because NOTHING we here will come up with to solve real and actual problem will ever happen.
What IS happening instead, is that Trump is attacking Wikipedia itself - this is an attack on actually everyone.
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blizzard
Famous Hero
Urban Legend
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posted May 26, 2025 06:10 PM |
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Edited by blizzard at 18:21, 26 May 2025.
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The things you are saying are simply not accurate with reality.
Gen Z Americans eat healthier than Millenials, Millenials eat healthier than Gen X, and Gen X eats healthier than babyboomers. They are small improvements, but the difference between Gez Z and babyboomers is substantial.
Babyboomers were the worst generation in terms of diet, which corresponds to the post-1945 economic boom and the rise of fast food and processed foods. There also wasn't much awareness on the long-term effects of eating that way. They got away with it to some extent in their 20 and 30s, but as they aged and their metabolism slowed down, there was a lot of weight gain with it, and habits that have been entrenched for years are difficult to change.
You have this weird fixation that human beings are somehow helpless towards chemical addictions, which is complete bull****. People quit heavy drinking/smoking/sugar fixations all the time. And in the case of sugar, the addiction is broken rather quickly. People aren't made out of glass. We can do stuff if we have the right support systems in place (which not everybody has, but that can change too) and the generational changes show that in action.
And when habits change, markets start changing too btw. You can just walk down the aisle and pick up ketchup with zero sugar added if you want. It's what is sitting in my refrigerator right now. And it would be nicer still if that version was cheaper, which it currently isn't.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 26, 2025 07:53 PM |
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The thingws you are saying are not how reality looks..
In addition you are wrong about habits and addictions. Addictions and habits are a psychological problem first and foremost; to get rid of it, you need to somehow get rid of the need. To be even able to do that you must REALIZE what you are doing and why. If you weigh double as much as you should weigh you obviously have a very visible problem - you don't look good and you probably have secondary problems: bad skin, digestive problems, shortness of breath and so on. STILL, most people don't do anything (except a small minority taking the new meds against that).
If it was easy there wouldn't be so many obese people. In fact, since you are not doing anything illegal AND the crappy foodstuff is cheap as well it's not even easy to connect the dots.
Remember the alcopop problem? In Germany it was so bad, that after a short time, when they were allowed from 16 onwards, it got changed to 18 with an extra tax. Now, what do you think why alcohol and sweet flavor was such an epidemic problem?
And try to think more clearly for a moment: what do you think why a regular ketchup is cheaper than one WITHOUT additional sugar? Because it's more expensive to produce? Nah. Because people who actively LOOK for healthier foodstuff are prepared to pay MORE for it, even when they get less, AND can and will afford it.
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blizzard
Famous Hero
Urban Legend
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posted May 26, 2025 08:59 PM |
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That is because physical activity has gone down, also Gen X and Babyboomers are at an age where they are most susceptible to obesity.
Do you think I just make random statements because I want to win? Gen Z eats better. This is all public information. Education and public awareness does in fact change the culture over time.
Now, as far as the future goes, it is tricky. Black and brown people eat less healthy on average, and they may be genetically more susceptible to gaining weight since their bodies are more efficient at retaining calories... which is a bad thing in the 21st century. So, it is going to be a challenge for a long, long time yet.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 26, 2025 11:09 PM |
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That Gen Z is eating "better" doesn't say much. They also "snack" more, for example. And as much as I know, they do it more out of environmental concern - lots of vegetarians and vegans, for example - which also doesn't say much, except about cheap fastfood. They can still eat a lot of vegan ice cream and they can be rather obsessed with "energy drinks". That food is considered "healthy" doesn't mean, you can't eat and drink too much of it and become fat anyway.
There is no question that whole wheat bread is healthier than white bread, toast and so on, but eating too much will still make you fat, especially with the right spread.
Two trends have been established: 1) obesity among children has been constantly increasing (which includes Gen Z).
2) Highest obesity percentage is and has always been in the 40-59 bracket - not in the over 60 bracket, which would be most of the baby boomers now.
White numbers are also not massively better than black or brown - Asians are good. Not whites.
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blizzard
Famous Hero
Urban Legend
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posted May 27, 2025 12:06 AM |
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Edited by blizzard at 00:42, 27 May 2025.
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I don't mean black and brown as in most Hispanics and most kebab and some Africans, because those groups are both Eurasian and parts of Africa have long been part of the Eurasian belt.
I mean people from places that didn't have many thousands of sustained years of agriculture and pastor animals. Their bodies tend to be more efficient with retaining energy, which bodes even worse with modern food. That's why when American fried foods hit the Pacific islands it just totally wrecked the place.
If you want to talk about this academically, I dont have any moral issue with putting an age requirement on certain foods or even just outright prohibiting the commercial sale and production of refined sugar. The FDA has banned plenty of other things for health reasons (usually carcinogens). There is already an age requirement on energy drinks in many places BTW.
And while we are talking academically, I dont honestly have an issue with prohibiting alcohol and cigarettes either, although the alcohol part would make me sad cause I love cabernet, and I might end up turning into a part-time underworld crime syndicate boss.
But strategically - in the real world when you actually try to do this stuff - there is only so much social engineering that you can get away with, and your position is a failed position. Making refined sugar haram would never pass. Not in today's world.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 27, 2025 10:14 AM |
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@JJ
The state is not a soceity, it is a power structure and society should always keep its authority in check.
Yes, you can -in theory- say that malnutrition is bad just like starving your children but it’s much more complicated to measure how much of what counts as malnutrition and how you are going to control it without interfering with basic life style choices. You can outlaw refined sugar for children but I doubt that all obese children are that way because of sugar alone. Are you going to outlaw deep fried stuff too, or instance? Where does it end?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 27, 2025 10:57 AM |
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Obviously, people - at least in Europe, where I live - are trusting their government to make sure that everything you can buy and is allowed to eat or drink without any warning or legal age restriction isn't detrimental to your health or, when it's established that it is, that something is done in that regard. This has been true for a couple of things. All problems in connection with leaded fuel and the ozone layer problems have been solved pretty fast, for example.
Or, when too high concentrations of harmful stuff is identified and forbidden.
Microplastics are another problem.
There is also a combination of legal age restrictions and taxes on products considered problematic, like tobacco and alcohol.
However, other things aren't even in the discussion. Take high blood pressure. In the US nearly half the population suffers from high blood pressure. In Europe it's half of that.
Pills that get the blood pressure down sell worldwide for 20 billion bucks this year. But one of the main reasons for this is that people eat too much salt - and that's without knowing it (!), which is actually the scandal here, since salt is used on a lot of stuff as a flavor enhancer. Everyone knows that after you've eaten a pizza at any takeaway or run-of-the-mill restaurant you get thirsty like hell. That's because there is so much salt in the tomato sauce.
Same with refined sugar. Sweet is nice, everyone likes it, so sugar on stuff is good. But it's not. Remember the scandal with the sugard tea for toddlers 60 or 70 years ago. They all had very faulty teeth because of that.
Let me repeat a simple thing which I've been saying in the drug discussion already. Refined sugar is a drug; it's addiction level is comparable with that of cocaine. What makes it worse is that so much products contain it. It's basically like Bolivia where you can get everything with coca, be it tea or tooth paste, just with sugar. The difference is, that no one tells you that refined sugar is a dangerous drug that you have to use with great care.
And the reason for this is that many children are basically FORCED into consumption, since it's simply a matter of course that they will get sweets. So logically they cannot ever develop a sense of problem.
It's basically the same as with drinking, the difference being that people have to wait until they come of age - you are not getting used to it as soon as you can crawl along on the floor. And THAT is because people feel GOOD when they can give children something they like - it's the grown-ups (grandparents, anyone?) who have absolutely no sense for the problem - but the government (there is a ministry of health, at least in most countries) does NOTHING to address the problem.
So. Not enough people consider sugar as a problem. Parents that do have a hard time to guard their children from too much sugar consumption, and if they manage their children will hate them for it (and you can bet that gramma and grampa will have the sweets ready when thye come visiting).
And don't let me get started on the evil of the combination of white flour products combined with refined sugar (and possible even flavor enhancers, preserving agents and so on in stuff that will keep half a year).
This IS a problem where the government is called upon. In theory. In practise they are too craven and gutless to tackle the problem. But there is no denying there IS a problem.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted May 27, 2025 11:17 AM |
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We must to get salt.. Very important our body can't live without a salt.. And In about 100 years, there will be no salt.. If I remember right.. Ok I don't like a Google searching engine, I can't find immediately, so I leave it, and yes important our body in the Google.. So you can go to..
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 27, 2025 12:11 PM |
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Ghost said:
We must to get salt.. Very important our body can't live without a salt.. And In about 100 years, there will be no salt.. If I remember right.. Ok I don't like a Google searching engine, I can't find immediately, so I leave it, and yes important our body in the Google.. So you can go to..
Yes, Ghost, salt is necessary. But you are supposed to eat no more than 5-6 grams of salt per day - and that includes the salt you don't know you are eating. By the way, the DEADLY amount of salt is 3 grams per kg of weight. So if you weigh 80 kg and you dissolve half a pound of salt in water and drink it you'll die.
WHO says, the world mean of salt consumption is 10.78 g per day - double as much as is good for you.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted May 27, 2025 01:41 PM |
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Sodium too.. Without a sodium, you get a hyponatremia.. Sodium in salt.. My friend is an saltoholic.. Plus and minus, of course!
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted May 27, 2025 02:10 PM |
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Edited by Ghost at 14:40, 27 May 2025.
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So my half-super materialistic magazine from the 2000s, so old fact.. It said nutrition recommendations are mixed up, information is misleading, etc.. An example of..
1. red meat
(Before)
Dangerous to heart, thus cholesterol, chicken is healthier
(Now)
Low-fat meat is just as healthy as chicken.. Thus harmful fat in meat..
2. margarine
(Before)
No problem, better than butter
(Now)
Margarine has other fats, butter is better..
3. table salt
(Before)
It gives blood pressure
(Now)
You must eat a mineral salt in half sodium lesser..
4. alcoholic beverages
(Before)
A small dose will destroy a liver
(Now)
1-2 glass of red wine will protect thrombosis, but drunk is harmful..
5. egg
(Before)
Eggs are harmful to heart, thus cholesterol
(Now)
Cholesterol isn't thrombosis, so you can eat 4 eggs in a week..
Other foods have plus and minus, I don't feel to write a long list.. Also from fats to cholesterol.. But today news.. Development is a slow..
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted May 27, 2025 03:52 PM |
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@Blizzard
Lol generations, thus Finnish school foods were snowy in the 1940's, etc also at home.. It called spoon food.. But I can't tell and write the whole story.. But hmm breakfast was buns, thus protein and carbohydrate, when a lot of work.. Where were the strong people.. Later on desk job, so they were gaining weight, and then government looked at strong people and fat people, it removed from food list.. Buns were in a school too.. Enough! When the early 1990s depression in Finland was caused food.. Wikipedia doesn't tell you.. Government doesn't want to you to know things.. An example of the kiosk sold Karelian hot pot in about 1€ in the 1990's, etc Now you can't find and meet a Karelian hot pot in kiosk, etc Also new generation never buy slaughtered pig goes to the freezer.. Today government, etc are speaking about healthy foods and ideal is skinny people.. But Finland is a very OP than USA.. Thus foods are developed, but in there still poor..
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purerogue3
Known Hero
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posted May 27, 2025 04:57 PM |
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Maybe should start a new thread, but:
alcohol -for socializing/fun
smoking -to fit in (most despised)
sugar -for exercise
carbs -for breakfast
protein+fat -dinner
'flavoring' -for spoilt food
snacks -in lieu of parents
soup -can't afford food
if I don't move in a day, I can barely nibble a little white rice, sugar forget about it
everything is cope
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted May 27, 2025 05:15 PM |
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If you are talking about funny drugs
The most popular:
1. betel nut
2. nicotine
3. alcohol
4. caffeine
5. cannabis
So we talked already alcohol.. In the EU countries, the most expensive alcoholic beverages are from Finland, it after Ireland, thus tax.. In Finland, Irish liquors are so cheap..
Sugar tax? EU said no.. And in the USA, problem is sugar between corn syrup
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This thread is pages long: 
