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TheDeath
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with serious business
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posted May 31, 2008 04:03 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 16:07, 31 May 2008.
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Moonlith
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If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted May 31, 2008 04:27 PM |
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mvassilev
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posted May 31, 2008 05:20 PM |
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted June 01, 2008 05:31 AM |
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The Death the only thing I could construe from that link is that the bible confirms the current theories of evolution, making the bible effectively redundant and leaving only a creator and not a personal god per se.
While this is quite a good argument for a deist god is doesn't really support the dying cause of "the holy bible" all that much.
What I thought was particularly amusing about it was the ending:
Quote:
But there's more. The Bible goes out on a limb and tells you what happened on each of those days. Now you can take cosmology, paleontology, archaeology, and look at the history of the world, and see whether or not they match up day-by-day. And I'll give you a hint. They match up close enough to send chills up your spine.
Spooky, huh. 
'Look at science and you'll find it's EXACTLY LIKE THE BIBLE. I'm too busy to do this but trust me it is.' 
While he managed to write a very wordy web page he didn't feel like quoting one shred of this evidence that sends chills up his spine?
While I don't really feel like looking at the mountains of very general scientific data that he suggested, as was the intended effect so that you just take his word for it, I can't really see how this would match up with the 6 day creation.
From Genesis, the 6 day creation is as follows:
First day: God creates light
Second day: God creates a firmament
Third day: God commands the waters to be gathered together in one place, and dry land to appear
Fourth day: God creates lights in the firmament (the fifth command) to separate light from darkness and to mark days, seasons and years. Two great lights are made (most likely the Sun and Moon, but not named), and the stars.
Fifth day: God commands the sea to "teem with living creatures", and birds to fly across the heavens (sixth command); He creates birds and sea creatures, and commands them to be fruitful and multiply.
Sixth day: God commands the land to bring forth living creatures
Seventh day: Rest
I can understand the whole "birds and fish come before man" thing as a parallel but the rest is way off. This one simple fact is the only one that matches up with his suggested light reading of 'cosmology, paleontology, archaeology, and look at the history of the world' which is nothing short of excessive
Stars and moon on the fourth day? After the water and land?
People just try to tweak the Genesis story as much as possible to be consistent with scientific data but the more they do so the less religious it becomes, and the more it turns into the theory of evolution, stripping away precious beliefs until all that is left is an inactive, ethereal and perpetually impossible to disprove god, who has nothing but forsaken us.
And of course you know my opinion on such a redundant god figure
I honestly do not see the point of clutching so dearly onto this belief which does nothing but blatantly contradict all science that got us where we are today.
Brings to mind Galileo and the geo-centric universe.
Church: The earth is the centre of the universe.
Science: Just proved its not.
Church: Ok, we were wrong about that.... but let's move on. We're right about everything else (quickly changes the story)
Science: We just proved that just about everything else is wrong.
Church: Alright, alright, we'll change it. Please don't stop believing... we're doing our best
____________
John says to live above hell.
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Mytical
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Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted June 01, 2008 07:33 AM |
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Edited by Mytical at 07:38, 01 Jun 2008.
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I was reading something and to me it made some sense. If it will or not to others time will tell.
In it 2 people were having a discussion. One a religious man, the other a scientist and 'debunker'. The topic was miricles, and science of course.
The relgious man asked what the scientist would do if confronted with a religious miricle.
The scientist explained that he would conduct tests and prove the miricle had a logical explination.
"And if that test didn't it was something else?"
"Then the test must have been flawed, and we would use another."
"And if that one gave the same results of the first?"
"Then that test must also be flawed, we would use another."
"How many tests would you conduct? When would you finally admit that a true miricle happened? Or would you just keep conducting tests until you get the results you wanted?"
Which brings up a good point .. imo. For some reason, religion is not allowed to grow with understanding of the universe. Yet, when science gets something wrong, it is the test that was flawed. Science can redo things as often as it likes to get the results it likes.
I disagree. Religion can grow. It can adapt with our understanding of the universe. Remember however, that our understanding of the universe may be flawed. Our tests we conduct are only as good as our information and understanding. I doubt anybody will ever admit it (and they have denied it with their last breath) but humans don't know a billionth of what there is to know in the universe.
People fear the unknown. They don't want something bigger, badder, and scarier then themselves to exsist out there. So TA's little discussion would go more like this.
Scientist "We have proven x is y, y is z, and a is 3. No wait...x is x, y is y, and a is a...no maybe it's..."
 . Believe me, I know there are smarter people here (corribus). I know my grasp and understanding of things is by no means perfect. One thing I do know, however, is that we DON'T know as much as we seem to think.
____________
Message received.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted June 01, 2008 07:35 AM |
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How can you prove something to be a miracle? 
Quote:
Yet, when science gets something wrong, it is the test that was flawed.
Getting something unexpected isn't exactly a miracle.
Some new evidence contradicts current scientific theories, the theory is revised and a new one is examined, tested and finally published when proven...
And religion doesn't conduct tests. It locks up the people that do until the counter evidence is overwhelming and they feebly try to justify it
____________
John says to live above hell.
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Mytical
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posted June 01, 2008 07:37 AM |
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Edited by Mytical at 07:38, 01 Jun 2008.
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It's a figure of speech, IE didn't prove it was something else.
Edit : Fixed, just for you.
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OmegaDestroyer
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Fox or Chicken?
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posted June 01, 2008 07:40 AM |
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Quote:
How can you prove something to be a miracle?
How do you prove there is no God?
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted June 01, 2008 07:40 AM |
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Quote:
They don't want something bigger, badder, and scarier then themselves to exsist out there.
Question Mark 
I also don't see the point of that hypothetical conversation.
It's basically saying "if something impossible happened what would you do?" I don't know, it's never happened
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John says to live above hell.
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Mytical
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posted June 01, 2008 07:40 AM |
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Edited by Mytical at 07:42, 01 Jun 2008.
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Omega he will respond with the straw argument. "Can't prove a negative"
As for my comment that people don't want things out there that are bigger, badder, etc I think it is self explanitory. Not sure what you don't understand.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted June 01, 2008 07:42 AM |
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What's wrong with this... "straw" (?) argument...
Oh and don't get me wrong I'd love for there to be a god
That'd be sweet
So would fairies 
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John says to live above hell.
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Mytical
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posted June 01, 2008 07:43 AM |
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Yet you have been engaging in a hypothetical thing here in this thread for how long?
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted June 01, 2008 07:44 AM |
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Not hypothetical questions about things that are by definition impossible, which can't be used to form any kind of parallel to the real world.
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John says to live above hell.
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted June 01, 2008 07:45 AM |
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Yeah you can. It comes up more in the law than you think.
I guess a better question is why do you want to prove God doesn't exist?
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted June 01, 2008 07:48 AM |
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It's not about intention or will.
It's about what is.
I've never tried or wanted to try to prove that god doesn't exist and I never will.
You can prove a negative but you can't prove that something doesn't exist, especially when you are arguing with very... creative people
Prove the boogeyman doesn't exist, Omega.
Oh, and btw, he doesn't follow any rules that you can think of.
____________
John says to live above hell.
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted June 01, 2008 07:49 AM |
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I can't. His wife is my old Contracts 2 professor.
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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Mytical
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posted June 01, 2008 07:50 AM |
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I will use a quote somebody here (think either Corribus or TA) gave explaining miricles. "The universe is so old that statistically anything that can happen, will or has happened." So statistically it is possible that there is a being that has 'evolved' so far that is can be considered a 'higher power'.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted June 01, 2008 07:55 AM |
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Depends what you call a higher power.
But that "higher power" certainly couldn't have "created" the universe that it evolved in
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John says to live above hell.
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Mytical
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posted June 01, 2008 08:04 AM |
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Unless it developed time travel and went back before time and created it . (Sorry couldn't resist).
My personal belief I have developed with things I have myself experienced, and with the knowledge that humans have a long long way to go before they know a fraction of what they think they do.
People try to use science as a religion of sorts. Since it exsists, nothing else can. That is the wrong way to view things. Science is about understanding the physical universe around us. To the limited ammount our understanding and knowledge can help it do so. They seem to think science is infallible. The tests must be wrong, another will give them the result they want...
There is not enough room here, nor do I have the patience and time to explain my unorthadox views, but here is something for you. What does it matter to you if somebody believes in 'the flying speghetti monster?'. Or anything else? Why not just live your life and let them live theirs?
____________
Message received.
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted June 01, 2008 08:05 AM |
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Quote:
Depends what you call a higher power.
But that "higher power" certainly couldn't have "created" the universe that it evolved in
Maybe that higher power isn't from this universe.
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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