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Disturbed-Gnu
Supreme Hero
Pro Bacon Vodka Brewer
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posted March 04, 2009 04:38 PM |
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Maybe not, but that doesn't mattet when he doesn't exist!
It's healthy for some people to have a god they can bellive in, but that does not make him real...
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 04, 2009 05:03 PM |
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Yeah, YOU said that. And you are of course 100% correct and have solution to the mystery of universe.
Why are you atheist guys so big headed?  You are always soooooo certain. Would be so fun if a God jumped out of the bushes and kicked you in the butt, screaming BOOOOOO 
Seriously, is "I'm not sure" not even in your dictionary? 
Einstein summed fanatical atheism (represented by, say, Xerox) in a perfect way:
The fanatical atheists, are like slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who - in their grudge against traditional religion as the "opium of the masses" - cannot hear the music of the spheres.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 04, 2009 05:49 PM |
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Yeah, I too laugh when they say "You cannot prove that God doesnt exist BUT WE CAN because I can feel that he loves me and he speaks to me like everyday and his prescense is so good so he must exist!!!"
Me: "Maybe you're just having physological problems..."
And im not uber atheist. Actually, in my fantasy books one of the themes are Religion VS Atheism.
Basically (making a very long story very short), the Snow Elves live to the north and have a huge source of Ley energy (magic in my universe, which has an deep explaination and isnt supernatural, its connected to cosmic energies and the magnetical lines).
The Energy is collected inside a huge spire. Due to mastering the Ley energy since long ago, they pretty much know everything about how the world works and how the ley energy affects them etc.
Anyway, to the south the humans are begining to start a war against the half-giants to the north. No side is evil and everybody has bad and good sides in my book. Suprisngly, the Wood Elves are resposinble for the war although they are only briefly mentioned 2-3 times.
Either way the Humans are losing and the Snow Elves council with the Wood Elves about the fate of the humans.
The Wood Elves believe they should understand the consquenes of their actions while the Snow Elves think that the humans might almost get exterminated and need some help.
So the Snow Elves appear to the humans in the end of the book. The main character ventures to the Northlands in the book and in the middle of the book a Snow Elf named Zelinde joins them.
The main characters future girlfriend which also follows them is a Priestess of the Eternal Light.
The Priestess and Zelinde fight a lot. Zelinde tries to tell her that the Church of the Sun is just made up and there is noone high above them ruling them.
As they travel, the Priestess begins to lose her fate.
The Priestess asks Zelinde to tell her about their culture. The Priestess now that they dont have one, because they are not influenced by hope and fate.
Zelinde tells her that they are not influenced with lies and culture is not a nescessary part of a civilization.
The Priestess tells her that Religion brings hope, warmth, happiness and culture and tells Zelinde that the Snow Elves are a cold people without any culture.
In the second book this sub-plot contiunes and Zelinde will admit that having faith might be good - although she still not is convinced.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted March 04, 2009 05:58 PM |
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Quote:
The problem with your "warning label" is it is ver bigoted and totally misrepresents what the Bible teaches. It does not advocate rape or any other thing your label falsely claims. The Bible does paint an accurate picture of humanity and does not gloss over any of the faults of the "heroes" of faith.
It is totally bigotted to accuse those who accept the Bible as being the Word of God as being delusional though that statement is completely in line with the statement that "Freedom from Religion" made that religious people are hard hearted and mentally enslaved. It seems that Dawkins has had a perverse influence on atheism and turned it into anti-theism.
This sums up what the Bible teaches.
Mat 22:35-40
(35) Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
(36) Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
(37) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
(38) This is the first and great commandment.
(39) And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
(40) On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
That is blashphemy. The Bible is about Jesus yet they bothered to drag in the older part of the jews along with the story of the struggle of the later Christians. What i view Christianity today as is a giantic blasphemic/hypocratic group of people.
And you say that only Jesus words should be followed, please do someting about Matteus and the others along with the hatred propaganda brought in from the jewish scriptures.
I did not make the picture, i just found it. Also, i would not have chosen that sticker(a similar one, but still different). But the point is the warning label.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 04, 2009 05:59 PM |
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Xerox : You surely do behave like extreme atheist, though.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted March 04, 2009 06:14 PM |
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I'm not really adding to the discsussion, so you can read past this, if you like.
You know, guys, everytime someone says this in this thread, I always thought it extremely annoying, but I think some people had a point in saying that this thread hardly matters.
It's not going to be an eye-opener for either side, since all it demonstrates is the sheer stubbornnes with which both sides discuss astrophysics up to the level of boredom and complexity that loses pretty much anyone who wants to join in.
I, myself, consider myself not a hair-brain (okay, yes, I gave some answers in this thread which are like celfious' answers minus the wisdom, so they sounded naive and drugged up  )
Anyway, this thread was also a place where people could get cheap shots at atheists and religious people alike, because, for instance, some people were 14-year-olds that considered themselves missionaries in the foreign field (like coldplay's song  ), others were people who carried a grudge against them, because there were protestant fanatics in their schooling system. I'm not saying they never had valid arguments (who's going to discuss the validity of an argument in a thread about belief?), but these people were biased and it would be hard to ever reach a consensus on ANYTHING.
Which isn't inherently bad in a discussion, but it can be as annoying as death playing the devil's advocate. You see, the point in the discussion where you drag in dictionaries, is the point where the average man should leave, because that could only be the cause of a flame war and you know it!
Though, I do have to ask one thing: how do you guys manage to write monstrous posts like that? I think it's because you people repeat your point often, but I'm not sure
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted March 05, 2009 09:12 AM |
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Quote:
Yeah, YOU said that. And you are of course 100% correct and have solution to the mystery of universe.
Counts towards a believer aswell I guess..
Quote:
Why are you atheist guys so big headed?
Counts towards a believer aswell I guess..
Quote:
You are always soooooo certain. Would be so fun if a God jumped out of the bushes and kicked you in the butt, screaming BOOOOOO
Would be fun if that would never happen...then what?
Quote:
Seriously, is "I'm not sure" not even in your dictionary?
Interesting...THIS exactly is the phrase atheists want to hear from believers...but you never have the chance to read or hear that. Just look back this big thread...you always read things like: I KNOW.....there IS...etc...
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 05, 2009 09:34 AM |
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I always try to say that I believe, not that I know. And not to act as certain.
Add me to your count of non-typical believers!
Seriously, extreme theists and extreme atheists are opposite sides of the same short-sighted thinking. Don't you agree? I know that, as an atheist, you are biased towards atheism But anyway. Both sides can be wise OR annoying.
I like atheists myself, they are often smarter and less prone to propaganda, with a sense of individualism and liberty, but if it becomes something like "I have conquered the mystery of universe", or, Xerox' type of thinking "Why do they even bother with believing in 21st century" -> it becomes, respectively, arrogance and ignorance. And both are an annoying trait.
Not believing is one thing, acting as your way of thinking is the only enlightened one is another. The first one is perfectly fine, since it's a matter of opinion for every person. The latter is bigotry. Atheistic bigotry, which is as bad as theistic bigotry IMO.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted March 05, 2009 10:24 AM |
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Conservatives are biggest porn consumers
Lol at the hypocrisy.
A new nationwide study (pdf) of anonymised credit-card receipts from a major online adult entertainment provider finds little variation in consumption between states. However, there are some trends to be seen in the data. Those states that do consume the most porn tend to be more conservative and religious than states with lower levels of consumption, the study finds.
"Some of the people who are most outraged turn out to be consumers of the very things they claimed to be outraged by," Edelman says.
The biggest consumer, Utah, averaged 5.47 adult content subscriptions per 1000 home broadband users; Montana bought the least with 1.92 per 1000. "The differences here are not so stark," Edelman says. Number 10 on the list was West Virginia at 2.94 subscriptions per 1000, while number 41, Michigan, averaged 2.32.
Eight of the top 10 pornography consuming states gave their electoral votes to John McCain in last year's presidential election – Florida and Hawaii were the exceptions. While six out of the lowest 10 favoured Barack Obama.
Residents of 27 states that passed laws banning gay marriages boasted 11% more porn subscribers than states that don't explicitly restrict gay marriage.
To get a better handle on other associations between social attitudes and pornography consumption, Edelman melded his data with a previous study on public attitudes toward religion. States where a majority of residents agreed with the statement "I have old-fashioned values about family and marriage," bought 3.6 more subscriptions per thousand people than states where a majority disagreed. A similar difference emerged for the statement "AIDS might be God's punishment for immoral sexual behaviour."
"One natural hypothesis is something like repression: if you're told you can't have this, then you want it more," Edelman says.
Source : New Scientist
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 05, 2009 10:31 AM |
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Wild guess. They would have to check whether the buyers are conservative or not, not just whether they come from a conservative country or not.
How about a scenario like that: In conservative states, it's harder to get laid, because people, are, well, conservative. Thus, the more open minded people need some substitute, in that case - porn.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted March 05, 2009 10:49 AM |
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Edited by Minion at 10:50, 05 Mar 2009.
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Speaking of interpreting the data to fit your beliefs...
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 05, 2009 11:00 AM |
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nah, it's not my interpretation. Just a possible scenario
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted March 05, 2009 11:31 AM |
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Edited by angelito at 11:32, 05 Mar 2009.
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Quote:
Seriously, extreme theists and extreme atheists are opposite sides of the same short-sighted thinking. Don't you agree? I know that, as an atheist, you are biased towards atheism But anyway. Both sides can be wise OR annoying.
I like atheists myself, they are often smarter and less prone to propaganda, with a sense of individualism and liberty, but if it becomes something like "I have conquered the mystery of universe", or, Xerox' type of thinking "Why do they even bother with believing in 21st century" -> it becomes, respectively, arrogance and ignorance. And both are an annoying trait.
Not believing is one thing, acting as your way of thinking is the only enlightened one is another. The first one is perfectly fine, since it's a matter of opinion for every person. The latter is bigotry. Atheistic bigotry, which is as bad as theistic bigotry IMO.
Good post, I can underline every part of it!
Edit: Btw...I don't call myself an atheist (God does NOT exist), but more a kind of an agnostic (I don't know if God exists, and I don't care either)
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted March 05, 2009 11:54 AM |
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Quote:
Edit: Btw...I don't call myself an atheist (God does NOT exist), but more a kind of an agnostic (I don't know if God exists, and I don't care either)
I used to call myself an agnostic. However, I am not sure if that is the correct one. You see I don't believe it to be at all probable that a personified God exist. I know that I can never be sure! But I also can't be sure that there isn't a teapot orbiting earth, nor that any mythological creature DOESN'T exist. There is not a single thing that you can say for sure that does NOT exist. So it is pointless to be an agnostic about a thing like that.
However, sense God can mean many things... if it means some divine sentient being, then I am an atheist. If it is something else, maybe more, something incomprehensible to humans, in that sense I am agnostic. But when it comes to a character that sits on top of the clouds shooting lightning bolts at sinners, I am a complete atheist.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 05, 2009 11:58 AM |
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Quote:
But when it comes to a character that sits on top of the clouds shooting lightning bolts at sinners, I am a complete atheist.
In such case, I'm an atheist too
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted March 05, 2009 12:13 PM |
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Hey leave some room for exaggerations ;D More fun that way (I could have written that I don't believe in the God of the Bible, but it wouldn't have sounded as good)
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted March 05, 2009 03:05 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 15:07, 05 Mar 2009.
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Quote:
(I could have written that I don't believe in the God of the Bible, but it wouldn't have sounded as good)
But this way you killed your own point.
How it should've been:
You: "I don't believe in the Bible because <blablabla>"
Doomforge: "Well I don't exclude the possibility that <blablabla>"
How it turned out:
You: "I don't believe in a dude that sits in the clouds and farts lightning"
Doomforge: "Me neither lol"
You: "By 'farts lightning', I meant the Bible"
Everyone: "Wait what"
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted March 05, 2009 04:49 PM |
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Quote:
But this way you killed your own point.
It is supposed to be read in context - where I talked about being an atheist towards any sentient beings being god. But to clarify for those who read one sentence at a time and review that information separately :
I am an atheist towards any personified god. There.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted March 05, 2009 05:12 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 17:16, 05 Mar 2009.
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*puts on a monocle*
Yes, that was quite obvious.
However, referencing the bearded man who sits in the clouds and shoots lightning - especially when you do it for the heck of it, no matter whether anyone really believes in that sort of thing - certainly was ought to
-first, get misunderstood by at least someone, and
-second, get a jolly and sarcastic response about the signs of confusion that happened shortly afterward, summarizing the situation as much as the "bearded guy which shoots lightning" phrase summarized the point you were trying to make - which is, not at all.
By "you killed your own point", I didn't mean that you did something wrong on your part, of course; your post is quite clear in that way, and you do seem like a well-spoken person. Besides, telling an OSMer he did something wrong would be an insult equivalent to spitting on his mother's grave. I meant that different interpretations of what you said, and the subsequent posts could - and did - make casual readers miss out on what you were trying to say, which usually leads to even more confusion and mostly incomprehensible gibberish such as right now.
It was, probably, more correct to say that Doomforge and I killed your point (actually not even killed it, rather sidetracked it), but it... wouldn't have sounded as good.
Leave some room for exaggerations.
*takes the monocle off*
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted March 05, 2009 07:15 PM |
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You are one monocle-wearing self-fulfilling prophecy bak 
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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