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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted November 02, 2003 08:21 AM |
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no en senior ana meetahs
no
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What are you up to
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Dingo
Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
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posted November 03, 2003 12:18 AM |
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Celfious is that SPAM?
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted November 03, 2003 01:04 AM |
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No0 I was awnsering smething
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted November 03, 2003 11:16 PM |
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Quote:
No one has said why it should be legal, medical reasons have come up, yes.
Well, how about this for a reason why it should be legal -- so you can tax it. Marijuana use, like smoking and alcohol has costs to society associated with it, such as medical expenses, crime, impaired driving and the results of that, as well as using up police resources and time. Why not make the people who are partaking in pot bear the brunt of the costs? I drink and alcohol is taxed and regulated to minimize the damage I do to everybody else when I drink. Nicotine cigarettes are taxed for the same reason. Why not do the same with marijuana? People are going to smoke up regardless of the illegality, why not enrich the community coffers rather than fatten a drug dealer's wallet?
And before you try the obvious rebuttal, the reason that this argument probably doesn't apply to drugs such as heroin is that the taxes you would have to charge to offset the societal cost of heroin use is probably so high that getting it from dealers would still be cheaper and the problem wouldn't be solved.
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Drive by posting.
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted November 03, 2003 11:34 PM |
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bear in mind that if pot didnt exist alcohol could be called the gateway drug.
While at the same time.. Drunks are worse than potheads in some accounts. Drunks get new livers and fall off the wagon. Drunks drink til death. Drunks become abusive and tend to demand power in their disfunctional families.
The develop a need to drink more and more often (otherwise they shake and are very agitated).
Pot heads dont lose as much judgement ability as drunks do.
Next time your drunk sluring and stumbeling down the street and you dont have a care in the world.. And get sick then feel miserable.. Or get alcohol poisioning. Remember that a chibba stick would have you all back chillin on the west side of school.
When some people are to drunk, they tend to drink more.
When someones to high, they tend to not smoke more.
Reason #2
Who knows what they are growing or adding into street pot?
Atleast with govenment regulation they could garentee what your getting.
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What are you up to
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Shadowcaster
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Shaded Scribe
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posted November 03, 2003 11:44 PM |
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bort--Bear in mind, though, that if the government legalizes non-medical use of marijuana they are, in essence, advocating the use of the drug, or at least approving it. If that happens, other drug users might push to have their respective drugs legalized and things may get out of hand. IMO, the reason that marijuana hasn't been legalized as of now is because the government wants to maintain stability in this matter.
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Burgessia
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 04, 2003 01:01 AM |
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do you really think there would be more pot smokers if pot was legalized? nope. it would look like that,yes, because people could talk about it and admit that they smoke.now they just can`t do that.
anyway, it`s just to stupid if you must go to prison because you smoke pot...just to stupid...
besides, pot smokers don`t think "geee,what if cops get me˙...". they all think they won`t get caught. even if they do go to prison or sth,they still smoke it. so,what`s the point of picking on innocent people who just want to feel happy???
oh yeah,i forgot...you think it`s not right.
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Shadowcaster
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Shaded Scribe
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posted November 04, 2003 03:56 AM |
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Of course there would be more pot smokers if it were legalized. I'm sure that there is at least one person in the world who would smoke marijuana if it were legal (if it isn't already for them), but doesn't for fear of punishment for breaking the law. Besides, if it were legal, many more would at least try it, and many of those would likely continue to smoke it because they are not held back from smoking. People generally obey the law, but not always because they want to.
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>_>
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted November 04, 2003 07:42 AM |
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probably more than 1, like people in bars will try it.
It goes hand in hand for most normal people these days.
Legalizing shrooms, I dont aggree with cuz people all over will be tripping. The thing after that is a natrual found speed like coke thing. Then the government has a control on all the drugs, and there are nearly no illegal sales.
Draw the line somewhere they say!
I think a good place, is right after pot.
And breed coke dogs. 
they smell more than coke and after enough generations drastic drugs will be gone. Catch everyone, how will more people get addicted or try if they know the extreme chance of getting caught?
parets
How do we hide our stash from our kids???
government
You must own a key safe in the house-50 bucks for a small size
parents
My child is hanging out with friends who are somehow able to smoke
Government
For 1- Childeren are rebelious
2- you should try to develop him into the modernized world.
Dont let him go where he went if he is high (like drunk, or ciggerets) Perhaps, if he wants to smoke let him if his grades are up. Teach him to apply himself for things that he wants.
Your parenting, your decision.
and 3:
Its a civil offence (like a minor federal offence) for parents to contribute to your child through their own childeren, or directly from themselves.
others
What will the punishment be?
government
Restriction from the ability to purchase pot.
If they fail to not get caught (we bring dogs) then we make them notify us of all money spent so we view their finances and investigate questionable purchases. If they are in trouble alot, a judge will decide what to do while adhearing to the boundaries of law.
Not many parents will contribute then. And the ones that your worried about, keep your child away. The parent by law knows the consequence and dosnt want angry parties backed up by law on them.
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What are you up to
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iYY
Responsible
Supreme Hero
REDACTED
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posted November 13, 2003 04:22 AM |
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Can't post pics from your computer, Andrew. Unless your c: drive happens to be shared on the net. Which is not very smart.
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted November 13, 2003 04:31 AM |
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You are the only one who saw that, I was trying something. Didn't work, so I deleted it. I don't like my real name out on the Internet, IYY.
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Dingo
Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
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posted November 13, 2003 05:26 AM |
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Haha, Wolfman your name is Andrew? Thats cool, I have a good friend named Andrew.
Well guys I do overall tolerate SPAM but don't SPAM in my thread.
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The Above Post/Thread/Idea Is CopyRighted by, The Dingo Corp.
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted November 14, 2003 03:53 AM |
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I sence a bit of a double standard, Dingo...
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whinie_the_b...
Adventuring Hero
grrrrr!
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posted November 15, 2003 02:34 AM |
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i would vote yes
Actually I have to ask all of you here who oppose legalizing pot a few questions: how do you know how damaging it`s to your health, how much it impairs your judgement and behaviour, and mostly, why should someone go to jail, for doing something that`s not worse than downing a few beers? Arguments like "it poisons your body" are invalid. I won`t even bother to compare it to nicotine or alcohol. Are you aware of what most people die from? blood circulation problems, including heart attacks, which are caused mostly by bad nutritional habitudes. Eating improperly kills most of us, followed by smoking. Diabetes has become a desease and people smoke and eat like crazy. Accusing pot for health problems is a little absurd. And if you can consume it without smoking it, it really does no harm to your body. Even if you smoke it, a few joints can easily replace a pack of cigarettes.
Now someone could argue that it damages your mind. It does affect the mind, but some here have rushed to say it turns you into an slow idiot or a person with no judgement. That simply is not true, it doesn`t turn you absurd or dump, and it digs no holes in your brain. It kills a few brain cells each time, but our mind has reserve ones to use. It`s true that it creates a tension towards weakening of memory and slow down of reflexes: it`s up to the user to refresh his memory and practice his mind. To sum up you can more than compensate for the "softening" of the mind caused by THC. The same goes for judgement and the way it affects your personality. Which isn`t that dramatic after all, having studied and experienced the effects myself. And in no way is it harmful. I could even say it`s making wiser and stimulates imagination.
Now issues like driving and air "pollution" can be settled. Driving stoned isn`t that dangerous but it`s fine if law requires you to be sober when driving so i won`t argue with that. The police here is even getting devices that can sense marijhuana instantly (by blowing, like with boose). Anyway I bet you can`t me in a street race, no matter how stoned i am
And smoking (in general) is tending to be restricted to either private or specially designated places, so by the time it becomes legal, non smokers won`t have to tolerate the smell of it. Nothing wrong with respecting the non smokers by the way.
And now the main point: it`s up to some ministers and polititians to legalize it. And why not? Who gives them the right to label someone who does nothing harmful a criminal? To put things into perspective again: a goverment that allows wars, massive pollution and a killing diet, doesn`t allow pot, and can even send someone to jail for just using it. Not just the us, ANY governement. And claiming to do so for health reasons is plain hypocrisy. It`s fun, not really harmful and should be legal, or a least decriminalized. It`s junk food and nicotine that should be banned.
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted November 15, 2003 02:53 AM |
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Quote:
Who gives them the right to label someone who does nothing harmful a criminal?
At the base of things, it is the sovereign right to use violence against their citizens that gives them the right to decide that.
Luckily, many nations have democracy, wich allows more then 50% of the people to decide when to use that violence. If we are lucky, they are right more then 50% of the time.
I don't use it myself, and all the people I know that use it aren't really the most successful of the people I know. I wouldn't want my kids to use it. But Im not going to tell someone to not use it, provided that they pay 100% of their own doctors bills if they get diseases because of it, or if they cause accidents. Freedom under responsibility.
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted November 15, 2003 09:21 PM |
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Yes, I guess. In America we have something called Freedom to be an Idiot, you can do whatever you want. It doesn't matter how many people oppose you or you upset. Sad really, the law doesn't look out for you.
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binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted November 16, 2003 02:16 PM |
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WOW, this is an interesting thread!
Before most (maybe all) of you were even born I was marching in protests in Washington DC for the legalization of pot. Ten thousand yelling screaming hippies marching through the streets, marching through the reflecting pool, marching the DEA, the Whitehouse and the Capital.
I even remember one person walking up about two feet from a cop and blowing smoke in his face. Gee, I wonder who that was 
All these legalize pot arguments I've heard before. With the exception of the air polution thing, it's the same arguments that have been made for over thirty years, and to some degree much much longer.
I've made all those arguments myself, very often and very strongly.
And you know what? Surprise! It's all a bunch of bull. It's rationalization. Rationalization is a subtle mechanism of the mind to justify what we want (or don't want). We all do it...and we do it a lot.
Do I think pot should be legalized? No, I don't.
Out of those 10,000 screaming hippies I bet less than a few percent still smoke pot. I can't think of a single one of my friends from back then who still smokes it. I wonder why that is. Do you think maybe we learned something?
Let me make a correction. When I said those arguments are all a bunch of bull, thats not true. Some of the arguments are valid. It's just that in my opinion and experience, the arguments against legalization outweigh the ones for it.
I haven't smoked pot for 25 years and from what I hear it's changed. I hear it's a LOT more expensive and a lot more potent. (I used to pay $10/ounce and $60-100/pound).
Argument for legalization: You can drive a car.
I agree that physically it has little affect on driving ability...as long as you're out on some country road away from traffic. But it does, or can, slow reaction time. An important issue is the mental effects of driving. It's true that when stoned, you can really "get into" what you're doing and sometimes even do it better. But what about the times when you're not getting into it? What about the times when you space out and your mind wonders off somewhere else? That's not good. Any pot smoker who refuses to admit this happens is fooling themselves (see point about rationalization)
Argument against: Air polution.
Comeon gimme a break, that's absurd
Argument against: Second hand smoke
VERY valid argument. If it were ever legalized it should be very restricted on when and where. For example any parent who smokes pot around children should be thrown in jail for child abuse and have their head examined.
Argument for: Legalization would not increase use.
Absolutely, positively wrong. It would increase and it would increase a lot. Not because there are huge numbers of people who refrain simply because it's illegal, although I bet that number is greater than some of you argue. The reason it would increase is because legalization legitimizes it and, yes, it would more widely available.
"It's everywhere" and "Everyone does it" are the two oldest arguments in the book. If you hang out with pot smokers of course it's available. Back when I smoked, it was MUCH more available than it is now. But still it wasn't unusual to get on the phone calling people "hey, you know where I can get some dope", "No man, it's dry, I can't find any anywhere". Sound familiar? OK, so it's been a long time for me, but I can't believe that's not still true. And it depends on your connections. If it were legal, you wouldn't have to worry about how good your connections are, or supply drying up. It would always be available to whomever happened to have a whim to buy it.
Legalizing it legitimizes it. It's just short of the government saying it's "OK" to smoke pot. "Wow, they made it legal, maybe it's not really that bad." And yes, a lot of people really do think that way.
Argument for: People shouldn't get thrown in jail just for smoking pot.
I agree. I think it should be illegal, but almost one those "look the other way" type laws. That way it doesn't legitimize it, but doesn't ruin people's lives if they get caught. Running a red light is a very dangerous and stupid thing to do, but you don't have your life ruined if you get caught.
In case you don't know it, pot practically WAS legal in the mid-to-late 70's. At least in many states. We used to walk around in broad daylight in crowded public places passing joints around. At most you might get a dirty look from some old person and you could walk right past a cop and he wouldn't do a thing. In the early eighties, laws started going back the other direction. So in a sense, the comparison to prohibition has already happened. After the laws started getting more strict, pot just went back underground.
State of Ohio: Possession up to 100 grams, $100 fine. Possession up to 200 grams, $250 fine. Civil offense, no arrest, just go to court and pay the fine (assuming they did anything at all).
Arguments comparing to alcohol, nicotine, caffine, etc.
Considering both physical and mental health, pot is much worse than nicotine. I've done both, and if I was forced to choose one or the other, I'd pick cigarettes every time.
Alcohol vs pot:
They are two different things. I'm not sure if saying that because one is legal the other should be also be legal is a good argument one way or the other. Legalization of pot should be argued on it's own merits. But the comparison to alcohol is still somewhat valid simply because it gives us something familiar to compare to.
Alcohol and pot are two completely different drugs and affect you completely different. In the short term alcohol affects both motor skills and ability to think. In the short term pot has little affect on motor skills....well maybe. It CAN affect motor skills in larger quantities and/or some people. But for the most part it has little affect on motor skills.
As for health, neither one has serious short term affects. Longer term and in larger quantities, alcohol causes pretty serious health problems. I'm not aware of long term adverse health affects from pot. But it's a toxin which is never good. And smoking is smoking, I don't care what the substance is. And a bong does little to help, it mearly reduces short term local irritation but doesn't change the fact that you are inhaling smoke. Eating pot? Yuck, not even in brownies.
Now here's the big difference. Pot really f***s with your head. This seems to vary dramatically from one person to the next. It burns you out, messes with both long and short term memory and decreases intelligence. (I'm gonna get some flack from that last one). At least to some degree the last two are irreversible, there has been some permenent damage done. I've talked to a number of ex-smokers who agree with that point. You might get 98% of it back, but not all.
It was mentioned that THC stays is the system for a month. I don't know how long it stays, I've heard all kinds of things. But it definitely stays much longer than alcohol. And the effects of it stay MUCH longer. A few burned out brain cells here and a few re-wired circuits there. That's not fixed overnight.
The results are that the THC itself and the effects of it are cumulative. This is a sleeper, it's slow and gradual and sneeks up on you. You may not even know it's there because you get used to it and it seems normal....and maybe it IS normal....now. Over time you have this toxin slowly eating away brain cells, rewiring circuits, changing your perspective of the world and the way you relate to people and events....and all while you're not paying attention and looking the other way.
Like I said, the vast majority of pot smokers from the 60's and 70's quit. Why? We're talking about probably millions of people. That's like a huge major case study. Why did so many quit? They didn't quit drinking. Why? Why? Why?
I've only asked a small number of them why. "Because I got tired of being burned out and tired." "Because I got tired of not remembering things." "Because I got tired of being paranoid." Paranoid? From some of the most cool and calm people I knew back then, the ones that seemed to totally have their act together?!
It was said that people with any kind of mental health problem shouldn't smoke pot. Absolutely true. Anyone with mental health problems including depression or anything else should run the other way from pot as fast as they can. I've seen several people get messed real real bad from pot. I've seen suicides (plural) due to triggered reactions from pot. Bad news. I miss them, and I'm sure their family misses them even more.
But this goes beyond borderline mental illness. It's a gradient between full blown mental illness and perfectly sane (whatever that is). Pot affects people across that entire spectrum. Some, it pushes over the edge. "Yea, I'm sane.....but I want to do the same thing that pushed those people over the edge". Great logic!
OK, so some people may have few adverse affects from pot, even in the long term. But a very large percentage of people do, many without even realizing it.
Argument for: It's my choice to smoke pot and I'm not hurting anyone, so why should I get thrown in jail for doing it?
I already stated people shouldn't go to jail for it. And sure, go ahead and smoke your pot. If you are lucky it won't harm you. But please do yourself a favor and be careful. And if you notice any changes in yourself for the worse, don't rationalize it as not being due to pot, for that very well could be the reason.
But while you are doing yourself a favor, do the rest of the country a favor too. Accept it as being illegal and don't allow it to be easily gotten by just anyone who feels like trying it on a whim. Maybe it's a minority who have serious side effects, but it's a significant minority. The minority is large enough that I personally wouldn't want to be resposible for the results. Just keep it to youself, don't push it on anyone else, or even suggest it. And keep it hidden and yourself out of jail.
Oh, it's not from pot, but I have a friend with hepatits from shooting up many years ago. Without some medical advances he will eventially die from it. His doctor was an ex-drug user himself. He said "yea we all rolled the dice and took the chance, for some people the dice landed the wrong way." Maybe the dice for pot have more sides, but they're still dice. Go ahead and toss'm.
In memory of:
Doug S. -- pot, toasted brain, took bottle of sleeping pills - dead
Dan L. -- pot, toasted brain, put a gun to his head - dead
Vickie H. -- pot, toasted brain, bottle of pills - dead
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted November 16, 2003 05:11 PM |
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That post was amazing! Real experiances from a "pot-head", pardon the expression. See I told you guys it wasn't good for you, do you believe me now?
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morgan_le_fey
Famous Hero
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posted November 16, 2003 08:09 PM |
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marijuana should be legal because people should have the right to choose, provided those choices do no harm to others or do not harm them in some way that is unrepairable.
personally i think smoking pot is a bad choice and i encourage anyone who is doing it now to stop because its bad for your health and it wastes your time.
however the freedom to choose must include the freedom to make bad choices to some extent. and thus, as individuals, we must have the right to be wrong also.
morgan
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Dingo
Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
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posted November 16, 2003 08:13 PM |
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How Exactly Does It Waste Your Time?
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