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Shadowcaster
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Shaded Scribe
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posted January 02, 2004 04:35 AM |
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Everyone thinks they are right here, that's why we are all trying to argue our points, in order to convince others that we are correct.
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>_>
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted January 02, 2004 05:12 AM |
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Sorry, Stiven, I just don't see that irony. You use the "we are right, of course we are right. We are Non-America." attitude well...
Not being American doesn't make you right, you know.
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted January 02, 2004 12:23 PM |
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I don't see a reason for generalising it to being either "americans" or "others" being right at all. Nor do I see a reason for suggesting that it's only non-americans responsible for generalising americans. Take American films, specifically Braveheart as an example. The english become some bunch of scum who rape, pillage, murder and steal their way across Scotland. At no point in the film does anyone make an attempt to show that this was the norm for the Scottish people of the time also (indeed when Wallace burns down an English town the incident is passed over almost completely and certainly not criticised), nor at any point do they attempt to make the English as anything other than satanic morons.
Take Bridge too far when ultimately the British get the blame for not adancing across Nijmegen bridge after Julian Cook's (aka Redford) assault in boats. The film leaves us with this ludicrous impression that the British are too busy drinking tea to help the 1st Airborne! No mention of the fact that the British armoured units were out of supplies and 2/3 of their forces were busy clearing the corridor below Nijmegen, a job meant to be for the US forces there. No mention of the forces facing the British ahead of them. Just a remark from Redford's character that went something like "you're just going to sit there and drink tea?"
Stereotypes and generalisations come in many forms, in our humour, in our films. Humour I think most of us can pass off, I certainly pass off most jokes about the British as half the time we made them up to begin with  Films and books I find much harder as people see these as serious works and assume that if the film or book says it happened then it happened. Many don't question these stereotypes or false impressions of events as they fit with what they expect to happen.
Whilst I'm sure many Europeans do stereotype the states in their serious remarks, as many incidences happen from the States in return. Be it film, book or remark on the internet the sad fact is all nations have those amongst their people ready to believe what they suppose to be true rather than what actually happened. An attempt to make this seem solely anti-american or the opposite is as off base as you can get.
For every major forum member who makes a generalisation about the states I can bet someone does the same about one of the European countries. I know a forum member (not here) who spends every post about europe he makes refferring to us as "euros" and lumping us all together in one mass. I know other european members who believe they can state the truth about every american from what they see on Jerry Springer and it's ilk. I could find literally dozens of well known hollywood films that demean non-americans in a serious and completely false way, I can find some British films that do the same for non-British people. For those who declare the USA warmongers you get remarks like "appeasers" from Dargon knowing full well that association between the remark and those who refused to fight hitler is a grave insult and not entirely the full story.
I say it again, for every perception you get that people hate or demean the USA, I can assure you there is something I have seen coming out of the USA that is demeaning of my country or others. You are not a special case, this does not excuse the stereotypes, but attempts to make it seem like the traffic is solely one sided is as weird as you can get. People have to sift through the stereotypes and warped history of our films and judge for themselves the truth, but to suggest this problem of hatred or generalisation is one the people of the USA face more than anyone else is in itself a biased and partly ignorant falsehood.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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blu
Hired Hero
The Ultimate Party-Pooper
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posted January 02, 2004 06:21 PM |
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Yes, a demenor. Steriotypes.
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One time I hurt sat but down really fast. Now my butt down hurts when I say down.
I think im under the influence...
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The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted January 03, 2004 12:42 AM |
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Friggin Euros are at it again.
I don't know who I despise more Ph; you or the chicken-little republicans like Wolfman.
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted January 03, 2004 01:26 AM |
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How grown up of you, rather than debate something you sling insults around. I have a tendency to prefer discussing things with people capable of more than one line of comment, but if you can't even manage that without insulting someone and then not explaining yourself I see no reason to bother with your remark at all.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted January 03, 2004 03:10 AM |
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Support of an esteemed colleague
I don't know the reason behind an insult like that but it certainly does not contribute to anything in this forum. Secularism rears its ugly head I see. Just like Private Hudson said, there are close-minded people in every country in every part of the world. If you had paid any attention to his posts you would clearly see that what he says carries a great deal of rationalism and awareness to it. His posts are well thought out and I for one value his opinions greatly. Dropping in to ignorantly classify him with the rest of europe and putting him down with uneducated vague expressionism is representative of the contents of his second to last post in this thread. Furthermore, insulting the young and very creative Wolfman is just what I'd call poison. It's poison to instill the youths of today with secularist racist ignorance.
The question is: "Why the Hatred" not "Who do you Hate".
Honestly what does one hope to accomplish by taking time to write, "I don't like you"? In whatever fashion your closed mind could possibly spit out, I honestly don't know how spreading your diseased insults helps anyone. The only thing it does is spread the hatred that the rest of us are thoughtfully trying to vaccinate.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted January 03, 2004 06:34 PM |
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Uh, you guys. It was The Gootch. Remember The Gootch? (I think he was like joking, you know....)
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I have menopause and a handgun. Any questions?
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted January 03, 2004 07:54 PM |
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He has a rather unusual sense of humour I see then...
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted January 03, 2004 08:13 PM |
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Chicken Little Republicans? Was that not an acurate analogie sp?
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted January 03, 2004 08:39 PM |
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I have no idea of the meaning of such a term
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted January 03, 2004 09:05 PM |
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taking a break from the debate
American Freedom at its Best
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Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted January 04, 2004 12:54 AM |
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Unusual? Yes perhaps... he DOES have a reputation to uphold, though.... 
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I have menopause and a handgun. Any questions?
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blu
Hired Hero
The Ultimate Party-Pooper
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posted January 05, 2004 11:03 PM |
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Madness....
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One time I hurt sat but down really fast. Now my butt down hurts when I say down.
I think im under the influence...
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blu
Hired Hero
The Ultimate Party-Pooper
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posted January 06, 2004 01:50 PM |
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I just realized that it's just part of the way some of us play our cards, consis. Insults may be immature but they sometimes affect ways of debation.
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One time I hurt sat but down really fast. Now my butt down hurts when I say down.
I think im under the influence...
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consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted January 06, 2004 08:54 PM |
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Hatred Lives in Dark Places
Quote:
I just realized that it's just part of the way some of us play our cards, consis. Insults may be immature but they sometimes affect ways of debation.
Excellent point Blu. I can't argue with that. I think that is an especially significant observation on the way we people 'play our cards'.
I'd like to first thank Vesuvius for lightening mood of the forum with your light-hearted humor. I feel that sometimes people can become too attached to a serious debate thus letting said contents envelope our already commonly claustrophobic lives. So thanks, for reminding me to take it easy Vesuvius.
I would like to add to my former posts in this thread and incorporate the insult factor that has now been brought to light thanks to Blu.
Let us remind ourselves first that to say 'frozen tundra' is a redundancy. Knowing this it would be much more appropriate to simply regurgitate: "Hatred is the black tundra". Black is known as that which is void of any light. The absence of light is cold and a dire emptiness surrounds they that observe. Black is also sometimes referred to as a bottomless pit. If hatred is revenge and if revenge is a dish best served cold then we may associate hatred with said tundra. We are now left with the blackness of said frozen wasteland. If Black is the absence of light then we may say that it could also represent a negative ray or energy. Do we truly know that a black hole draws light in? Or could it also be possible that said blackholes are actually emitting negative rays of light? If it is true that a negative ray exists and we have yet to be able to invent a device that can measure this emission. I believe insults to be negative rays of light that either drown out normal light or suck it in, thus causing a barren frozen wasteland.
That's how I feel about insults and hatred. Hatred being the place and insults being that which eminates from such a dark place.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted January 06, 2004 09:00 PM |
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Quote:
Let us remind ourselves first that to say 'frozen tundra' is a redundancy.
It's not a redundancy. Tundra is not always frozen any more than a desert is always sandy.
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Drive by posting.
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Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted January 06, 2004 09:58 PM |
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Wow Consis.
Sometimes when I'm reading your stuff I feel like I'm reading a cross between Hemingway and the Urantia Book, with a sprinkle of Descartes thrown in.
BTW no disrespect intended. There was a time when I thought/wrote very much the same way. I either became jaded or a lawyer or both.
P.S. SO, how do you feel about Humor?
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I have menopause and a handgun. Any questions?
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blu
Hired Hero
The Ultimate Party-Pooper
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posted January 09, 2004 01:59 PM |
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Yep. We need someone as poetic as consis just to TRY to think like that.
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One time I hurt sat but down really fast. Now my butt down hurts when I say down.
I think im under the influence...
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted February 28, 2004 08:49 PM |
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Ok, thread revived.
It was a nice poetic end, but someone has to spoil it. 
I’d like to ask you all. What’s wrong with generalizing?
Generalization is merely a presumption (true or not) about the majority of people within a certain group (in our case – Americans). Very often, a larger group of people do share a common characteristic, in which case generalizing is justifiable. But this doesn’t mean it goes for ALL the people in the group. Only stupid people might believe that. Of course there are exceptions.
In this case, if I make a generalization and say: “Americans are arrogant.”, I have the legitimate right to say that, because in my opinion 90% of Americans truly are arrogant. Peacemaker’s letter was one of the best I’ve read (her letters are always the best ), speaking in general about the exact reason why Americans are disliked. It’s true other countries make mistakes, but rarely are they as arrogant and self-centered as Americans.
When I discuss in a debate, I try to work with reason and exclude emotions from the discussion. Also I try to be moderate and not be offensive to others. Especially when I state my opinions about USA, that’s when I would be able to hurt a lot of people, if I didn’t use my “offence filter”. Of course, many reasonable people would not take my opinions as offences on national basis, but there are also more sensitive members here about their nationality. And although, my points are not directed against them, as persons, they don’t take it lightly and reject my points without much consideration.
I’d like to send all “proud Americans” a message: Be as proud as you can get, but be proud of your culture, proud of your heritage, proud of your county’s scientific and cultural advancement. Don’t be proud of your government waging wars, exploiting other countries, imposing American influence all over the world. Just because it’s your government, it doesn’t mean it’s always right and you have to support it. Think for yourself. I’m 100% convinced that most of you are good persons and have the best intentions to other countries. Seek the truth. It’s not always what you see on your TV. Only then will you be more pleased with yourself and others will have greater respect for Americans.
OK, that was about the most positive vibes you Yankees can ever get from me! Huh, I guess you caught me in a good mood. 
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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This thread is pages long: 
