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| Thread: Ubisoft asks our Help on H5 features. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Nessus
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 09, 2003 02:01 PM |
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Put It this way...
Ubisoft had better get it right, or they will have another flop on their hands like H4.
Dragonh8er
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consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted December 09, 2003 08:09 PM |
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My rebuttal
It's official.I'm a Heroes3 worshipper that talks out of his head.It's distracting to a thread when your opinion entails name-calling and put-downs.The issue here is that of the released concept art and the heads up from Fabrice to use source codes and certain game aspects from Heroes4.I have a couple of suggestions.Take a look at pics from Vesuvius and Gerdash.Another suggestion is to seriously consider what KittenAngel said about possibly handing the project to Wake of the Gods.My complaint was (a bit dramatic) that we aren't seeing the future of Heroes V going in the direction of the requests of the fans.I feel very strongly that Wake of the Gods is going in the direction of the fans but there's a problem.As Fabrice alluded to in his interview we the fans might become victims of a corporate numbers-crunching sell-out.Heroes4 bombed on the market which leaves the holders of it's codes(ubisoft) a limited set of options that could be heavily influenced by shortage of funds.What I'm worried about is that we may not get a devoted team for the making of Heroes V.
On a different note, Gerdash about the pics you had linked.What if the reason we're seeing these animated pics is because the developers didn't have the time(time is money)to invest in searching for such great art but instead they were bound by some contract due to limited funds to get art only from a company specified in the contract?
Why is it always about the money =(
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted December 09, 2003 09:19 PM |
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Because its a business, and businesses are primarily about money...nature of the beast. I think you are being too negative too early, Ubi has done nothing to earn a pessismistic attitude like that, they havent been given the slightest of chances. We are only in the very very early embryonic stages of heroes 5 so dont panic yet.
And about wog, I dont necessarily think that it is the direction the majority of fans want. In ToH I know very very few people who installed wog, or even bothered to download it. Most heroes3 enjoyed it just the way it was, that was part of its charm.
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Myctteakyshd
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Blue_Camel
Famous Hero
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posted December 10, 2003 04:13 AM |
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puh-lease.. ubi has done everything right so far in the early stages of h5 development. how can you say they aren't going the direction of the fans? fabrice has been in consistent contact with all the major homm sites and has urged the sites to email him compiled wish lists. he's doing a great job so far, and until he does something wrong, there's no way to criticize him. and rychen is right about wog.. many dont care for it. i guess you'd rather have 3do instead of ubisoft develop H5, loll.. they wouldn't listen to a word fans say during the development !
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted December 10, 2003 05:56 AM |
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How about this..
before the game you can set this like the timer:
Set how many days the game will run simultaneously for both players. Saves time, but only on closed maps.
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valkyrica
Supreme Hero
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posted December 10, 2003 08:49 AM |
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i guess that would be a nice feature to have, good thinkin castrated one (eventhough it's inspired from a king's bounty lookalike game, but idea works, at least for 10 turns or so.
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I'm Guybrush Threepwood, mighty pirate 
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted December 10, 2003 02:43 PM |
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Sounds lame to me, no one likes to be rushed & not many that I know do in this game so I disagree Castrated.
Especially from someone with a 30 min turn oer day.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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psychofan
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 10, 2003 06:55 PM |
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Opinions for H5
OK. You have some good things in HOMM3 and HOMM4. You find out what they are and what the ppl like in them. You put them together and you have H5. Imo i liked the way the hero stayed out of battle in H3 and hated combat in H4. But in H4 there were some awesome graphics. The building tree was a little bad to some extent. In the chaos castle im sure only the dragons were being used and the hydras never got used. What is up with that i ask you! I think the building structure for H3 should be brought back. It was great that they came up with some new creatures in H4. I think if they combined the graphics of H4 and the building tree of H3 and added some new castles and/or creatures you would have a really great game.
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rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted December 10, 2003 09:10 PM |
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I think a cross between h3 and h4 would be a disaster for the new HoMM. Although H4 had some good points in its own right, it didnt have the massappeal that H3 had, and now H3 is 5 years old. Using H3 for a template to the new HoMM would just be a backwards step. New ideas, fresh concepts, tweaks in gameplay, possibly a new engine, 3d graphics are what the new HoMM needs, not a rehash of old ones. Sure take the traditional aspects of HoMM, the building style, skill structures etc, but rework them and make it a whole new game.
Make it NEW, make it ORIGINAL again, not like an old HoMM or a disciples, or an AoW. Make it HoMM and take it to the top again.
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Myctteakyshd
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted December 10, 2003 10:03 PM |
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Of course we want the heroes 3 spirit but I think heroes 4 had a few good ideas also but it shouldnt hurt the heroes 3 spirit game itself.
One idea I would HATE to see again is using more then one hero in one army.
I see how they use 5 invincible heroes to thier advantage & it kills the whole game.
In heroes 3 chaining was a pain & I think alot that play heroes 4 former heroes 3 players disliked it.
Defanatley need random to satisfy many of the players here & not like the heroes 4 generator which was not too great we need a dependaple one.
In heroes 4 theres too many ways to cheap a win & it's not fun when most take it to thier advantage.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted December 11, 2003 11:02 AM |
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Quote:
New ideas, fresh concepts, tweaks in gameplay, possibly a new engine, 3d graphics are what the new HoMM needs,
....
i know you probably didn't mean it the bad way, but imho the things you mentioned don't make a good game. it's just a bunch of words that sound nice.
everybody with enough money can have new ideas, build a better engine, render in 3d, etc, but the number of good games is not very large. the main problem of a good game is elsewhere imho.
me hates it that too many people say it over and over again and other people make an important-looking face and nod to it and the result is a game that no one wants to play.
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what is the safest way to pass your time? heroes community -- your posts won't affect almost anything
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rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted December 11, 2003 11:41 AM |
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So whats the alternative....make h3 again? I love h3, always will, but in my eyes, the only thing that h5 must use is its concept. Everything...pretty much new thanks. Make gorgeous graphics, an amazing user interface and friendly gameplay...these are what attracts people to games these days. Kings Bounty may have been the best strategy game ever, but I cant play it anymore because of how things have evolved with computer gaming.
If I wanted things to be like h3 or h4, I'd go play h3 or h4. Make this all new, thanks, with all the intricacies that a new gaming company/developer can throw into it. Its gotta be new, fresh, in anyway they can....not a rehash. Lets make h3 again with all the h3 aspects again for a nostalgia trip? not for me. Needs new innovative concepts. Not a whole new game, but something different after the let down that was h4. This may be in the graphics, in the engine, it the reworking of certain concepts...they gotta do it, or else blah, its just the same game again.
You keep some things.....creature names, town themes and names maybe skill names and what they do, but the rest, go for broke. Dont play it safe, kick ass with new dynamics. Try to impress the gamers, rather than realize a ho hum game, that really is the same thing rehashed.
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Myctteakyshd
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted December 11, 2003 12:40 PM |
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Quote:
So whats the alternative....make h3 again? I love h3, always will, but in my eyes, the only thing that h5 must use is its concept. Everything...pretty much new thanks. Make gorgeous graphics, an amazing user interface and friendly gameplay...these are what attracts people to games these days.
Yes I agree with alot of this. The graphics and the user interface is important, but there are a few really important things to remember.
1. The player must be in control.
2. His strategic decisions must affect the gameplay.
3. Dont add so many options/stats/peasants/population/micromanagement echonomy. - If we wanted to play a simulation game we would play sim city.
The game should be an instrument for the player to meassure his strategic decisions against another persons, according to a few simple rules with stunning graphic representations.
Master of orion 3 - too many options - too little graphics = unplayable
Homm4 = too much "cuteness", too long transfer times. To slow.
Homm3 = too old.
Homm 5: Make it simple, but make the simple decisions actually change the gameplay ALOT. When in doubt, do it like Homm3. Remember how popular chess is, and its a very simple game.
A basic engine based on strategic decisions and Player control, wrapped in awesome graphics and story is what I'd like to see - with looooow and fast send between turns.
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Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted December 11, 2003 05:26 PM |
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Quote:
So whats the alternative....
i did say that you probably didn't mean it that way, and it was just the repeated phrase that i don't like, because it's often repeated mindlessly. and so it becomes the first priority to make a game so that those phrases can be said.
remember, all those things could have been said about homm4, and lots of diversity of creatures, etc. in addition to that.
the problem is that those things are means of doing something, not the main objective. i would like to see a reason for applying a method before and then the proposal to apply the method, not the other way round.
in homm4 it looked like there was no real reason, but the method had to be applied, possibly because they wanted to say it in advertisements and report it to the publisher, etc.
so..
q: what do we have to do to make it clear to the most ignorant salesman that the creatures look diverse?
a: let's mix styles and contexts.
e.g. from that point of view the venom spawn and the dragon golem etc. were greatest of all ideas possible.
imho the problem is that the reason for change is to say some popular phrase to the ignorant salesman, not a real improvement to gameplay. and the community repeats the imho more or less meaningless phrases over and over again, until a large number of people are brainwashed.
as i said, it was not necessarily you that meant it that way, you just included it with a good wording. and i just see a reason to dislike such prases repeated too often, even in a meaningful context.
i asked in a questions for ubisoft thread:
Quote:
what are in your opinion the main reasons for sucess of a homm type game in general? i.e. what is it that attracts people in a homm type game?
and got this answer:Quote:
About the reasons for the success of the HoMM series, I'd like to return the question to you fans. What is it that attracs people, and what differentiate it from other strategy games ?
especially considering the need to explain things to salesmen that fabrice pointed out in the interview, it makes me feel somewhat insecure about the future of homm right now.
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what is the safest way to pass your time? heroes community -- your posts won't affect almost anything
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psychofan
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 11, 2003 06:36 PM |
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rychen i understand what you're saying, but it's not a matter of redoing a game for it to be better. It's a matter of making something that will appeal to the consumers. If H3 sold pretty big (which it did) then use many ideas from it. Don't make a completely different thing that won't sell. They are going to make something appealing to the consumers so they can make a lot of money, not a flop like H4. A lot of people here liked (likes) H3, so buffing it up with new graphics and a little different story and some creatures and such will probably be a big hit. I'm not saying making H3 EXACTLY the same. Not looking into the archives and putting it on the market. Enhance it so it will be new and different but very similar to H3.
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Gangrail
Promising
Famous Hero
Dead Man
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posted December 11, 2003 06:42 PM |
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Take H3 with some improvements and add the new 3d graphics. H3 should be the base of the game though since it was better in almost all areas than H4. Start from last good version (H3) and build on it. Don't start from the one that killed Heroes (H4) LOL. And don't say how can I say H4 killed it because everyone knows H4 NEVER had the sales or the following of H3. Yes they went under but but H4 never had a chance to catch what H3 did. The heart of the game that everyone loved and was addicted to was taken out when H4 was released.
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psychofan
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 11, 2003 06:48 PM |
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I am an H3 lover...i still play H3 now and then. When i heard H4 was coming out i was so excited. But then when i got it i was sooooo disappointed. It was like they changed everything. I just wish H5 could follow H3 in some way so i don't feel disappointed again when i have no idea what im doing.
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Blue_Camel
Famous Hero
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posted December 11, 2003 09:58 PM |
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Quote:
Take H3 with some improvements and add the new 3d graphics. H3 should be the base of the game though since it was better in almost all areas than H4. Start from last good version (H3) and build on it. Don't start from the one that killed Heroes (H4) LOL. And don't say how can I say H4 killed it because everyone knows H4 NEVER had the sales or the following of H3. Yes they went under but but H4 never had a chance to catch what H3 did. The heart of the game that everyone loved and was addicted to was taken out when H4 was released.
hush dear, you speak of things you don't know
don't make judgments of h4 by playing it in single player, it's not wise if i judged h3 on single player alone i would hafto say it's a mediocre game. same with h4. i think if you actually played h4 online you would enjoy it. but even if you play a solid amount of games online and actually know what you're talking about and still don't like it, be reasonable in your statements. don't just wildly sling around "h4 is worthless rah rah" without giving reason. also, i hafto laugh everytime i hear people (and i hear it a lot) say that "h4 never had the sales of h3".. um, actually it outsold h1 + h2 + h3 combined. sorry 
the moment i knew H4 was a better strategy game than H3 was in an online game when I had to literally use 5 min out of my 6 min turn just deciding which magic i would choose in a level-up. In h3 you never had big decisions like that.. you always picked the same major skills.. occasionally picking 1 or 2 skills differently. your hero at the end of the game was nearly the same every game. Same with creatures! in h3 you build em all, in h4 you must choose. H3 may have been more aesthetically pleasing, maybe had a more "warm" feeling, but H4 is the better strategical game. ironic too, that the H4 designers made the game intending for it to be more RPG-ish. The fact that H4 is a good game is a miracle i marvel at every time i play it. I mean the designers were so clueless, if you read some of the things they have written about the game. that's really one reason i think a lot of people say h4 is bad.. "it was a failure.." "potions of immortality were thrown in at the last second! how lame.."
Correct, it was a failure at what it was intended to accomplish, but it succeeded in being good accidentally. Potions of Imm at first glance hurt the game, but actually they help it a lot. if it weren't for potions of imm, heroes would snap like twigs in maps where there isnt much exp. available. and in bigger games, it requires a lot of strategy to balance the battle - how much of my troops do I devote to trying to kill this hero, but how much do i devote to trying to kill this stack of blackies he has over there? and with heroes being killable now, the choice of which spell should a hero cast becomes much more strategic. Near the end of the battle, after my hero has just been killed once and now has no imm cast on him do i make him drink another potion of imm (which, if your other heroes/troops are slowly losing the battle may not be a very good option) or do i cast lighning on those dragon golems which will kill 2 of them, and hope that because i just killed 2 of them, my opponent will no longer be able to kill my hero in one round, and then next turn i cast potion of imm?
well, maybe i should stop now, but I just don't see how you can make the case for h3 being a better strategy game than h4. maybe better looking, more "warm", but more strategical? hmm..
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rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted December 12, 2003 02:11 AM |
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I know the answer to that....h3 was more "user friendly" It was much easier to figure out how to get good at it, whereas h4 had more depth...no denying that. H3 appealed to a wider audience due to this reason, regardless of H4 sales. I'm not saying that it is a good thing or a bad thing, just that its how it is.
I actually liked H4 in single player. If it had the RMG quality of H3 I would be playing it. but with data transfers, memory leaks and a dial up loop out to Australia, all my attempts at mp gaing were futile. Would have love to played it mp against people who migrated from H3 to H4, but never was going to happen in my situation.
things I would like to see in H4 (taken from both games)
H4 magic system ( master, garndmaster etc, really liked that)
H3 Hero uniqueness (all heroes have a special ability....but make them all useful, not like comparing Tazar with Cuthbert...make them all attractive to use).
H3 RMG (goes without saying for me, love random).
Heroes off the battlefield (heroes on doesnt feel like heroes to me).
Keep movement points on creatures for more realism, ie.H4
Make it a nice easy to use interface with no excess RAM necessity that destroys mp (for some). beta test it thoroughly to make it superbly playable out of the box.
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Myctteakyshd
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted December 12, 2003 02:38 AM |
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There are good & bad points when comparing the two games but we dont need to compare which game is better on this thread.
Blue Camel we all need to come & talk about what we need from heroes 5 to make a great game for all of us to play.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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