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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 08, 2010 03:51 PM |
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I make it a moderator issue, because it IS a moderator issue.
And I don't ignore him anymore, because I did that for a very long time - without anyone noticing, it seems, and without any result. And believe me, it's somewhat a lot more annoying, when someone you actually don't want to debate with picks a couple of lines out of your posts and starts disfiguring them with his sermon than react sometimes.
Ignoring fanatics who are on a mission doesn't work.
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted October 08, 2010 03:51 PM |
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1910: And what would that solve? He would still be completely unable to discuss anything when its related to religion, and he would still just be randomly bashing and shouting out "THOSE ARE FALSEHOODS!" at things he actually says and believes.
He fails to understand his flawed logic can be used to break his own spouting comments.
He fails to understand philosophy and physics, and what atheism is.
And he is not even willing to accept simple consequences of his belief, and he rarely understands why it works like that.
Binabik got a similar aspect: a unchangeable stance, BUT he actually acknowledges that he believes what he believes, and he can DEFEND his stance by ARGUING properly.
The entire fact he can argue for it, and not just SPOUT OUT tons of FLAWED logic makes a good contrast.
Should the mods act? A ideal: No.
But really, they should act somehow.
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1910
Known Hero
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posted October 08, 2010 04:03 PM |
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Edited by 1910 at 16:06, 08 Oct 2010.
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If nobody responds to him then eventually he may realise that and just stop responding (why bother if nobody is willing to respond?).
Oh, and JJ, lol...it's hardly a moderator issue. He isn't exactlying breaking any rules. You only think it should be a moderator issue because you dislike the guy so much. Explain to me why it is a moderator issue? lol
Also, the problem isn't fully his, it's also with you as well. Your (extremely) stubborn way of arguing doesn't help the situation at all.
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omegadestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted October 08, 2010 04:09 PM |
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One thing I've grown tired of is the Elodin bashing. I understand that he is not the most... diplomatic poster,but the barbs and potshots are getting old. It comes across as intolerant and immature.
Frak it is annoying to post on a phone. Even with a keypad.
Anyways, I am not defending you either, Elodin. You come across as overly aggressive and dismissive. Chill out. Relax. Don't expect to change any paradigms on a message board.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 08, 2010 06:35 PM |
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Umm, I don't ask for ACTION.
I want CLARIFICATION.
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted October 08, 2010 07:30 PM |
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Quote:
If nobody responds to him then eventually he may realise that and just stop responding (why bother if nobody is willing to respond?).
Common logic: To be silent is to agree
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1910
Known Hero
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posted October 08, 2010 07:33 PM |
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Well, depends on the person. I am usually silent if I can't be bothered going on with discussion. Also, if JJ and others keep responding to him they are the ones wasting their time and are rising to the trolling in the process. In the end, is it actually worth all the trouble?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 08, 2010 07:52 PM |
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Quote:
Common logic: To be silent is to agree
I don't know from where you got this logic. Being silent is ignoring (not ignorance). Following your logic, when one makes a post and nobody gives a penny, he should be happy that everyone agrees?
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Era II mods and utilities
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1910
Known Hero
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posted October 08, 2010 07:56 PM |
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Couldn't have said it better myself, Sal.
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted October 08, 2010 08:18 PM |
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Edited by Adrius at 20:20, 08 Oct 2010.
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I may not be the most active OSM poster, hell, I rarely if ever post anything there, but I read A LOT.
Elodin, you dance on the edge of the CoC, using small insults that serve no other purpose than to provoke the person(s) you're debating with.
It's not CoC breaking imo, but it's just so goddamn annoying that for your own sake you should correct your behaviour. It's especially annoying when coupled with your whining about the mod bias etc... it's hypocritical to the maximum.
I mean, I'm just gonna scour through some of your posts in the "government control" thread and give ya some pointers...
"you seem to be confused."
This is by no means CoC breaking imo, but what kinda purpose does it serve besides provoking?
"You are either lying or incapable of reading the English language well or have poor reading comprehension skills."
Again... what sort of purpose does this serve besides ad hominem?
The list goes on...
The small insults by themselves are insignificant, I see that kinda stuff all the time, but the SHEER AMOUNT of them coming from you adds up to a fricking tidal wave of negativity.
So seriously, for your own sake... start thinking. If this many people on a forum are annoyed shouldn't some kinda bell ring?
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted October 08, 2010 10:32 PM |
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@JJ
I agree with your sentiment, but I disagree with your assertion that ignoring is synonymous with agreement. As you no doubt realize, I ignore just about every word that he types. For one thing, he hasn't had brought forward a new idea or new perspective on anything since even before he was GoW at the RT. Life is too short to hold philosophical discourse with a person who possesses inflexible viewpoints. And by "inflexible viewpoints" I don't necessarily mean the potential of a person's viewpoints to be changed by online (or otherwise) arguments - though certainly that is usually a prerequisite for meaningful discussion. By "inflexible viewpoints" I mean the ability of a person to use different and variable paths towards making their arguments. In essence, there's no need for me to read Elodin's posts. They're all identical and have been for years. I'm sure most of us could write his posts for him without a second thought. I'd tire of reading his arguments even if they were cogent and logical.
For another thing, by arguing with fanatics, you only give them a platform on which to yell their monotonal messages all the louder. They're not interested in listening to you, or to any alternate viewpoint. They don't want to understand what other people think. They don't want to learn new facts. By arguing with them, you accomplish nothing. You waste your time, and for your trouble you essentially are handing them a microphone which drowns out all other discussion on the board. That's really the very essence of counterproductivity.
But of course you've been arguing with him fruitlessly for as long as I remember, so I hold out no hope that you'll change any more that I believe he will.
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted October 08, 2010 10:55 PM |
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Well, while taking "silence = agrees" might be wrong from a few points of view: What is the option?
And that is the reason why it exists.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 08, 2010 11:07 PM |
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I still wonder where I said that silence is agreement.
Everyone must now for themselves how they deal with these things. Ignoring may work for some, for others it won't. For me it doesn't. I've tried it, and it's self-gagging - why should I force myself to anything? To prove what? Just BECAUSE it doesn't matter whether I amswer or not I can do what's best for ME and besz for me is when I do what I want to do.
That said, I just asked the moderators a question. I cab repeat it for the umptieth time.
The Supreme Court of the US has ruled that atheism is to be treated as a religion in every practical respect.
Elodin claims it IS a religion.
In that case - isn't he being massively anti-atheist? Would the board tolerate anti-jewish posts in this massive amount. Anti-Christian?
I don't care what the moderators decide here, but a clarification seems necessary.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted October 09, 2010 01:14 AM |
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Quote:
See, Elodin, that post of yours is not telling the truth.
Christianity and other religions have NOT constantly bashed. It IS true that there have been posts pointing to dark spots in the history or general character of those.
False statement. I can make a compilation of your anti-Christian/anti-religion posts if you wish.
Quote:
But no one EXCEPT YOU is coming up with mass murdering atheists in every post as a point.
Sorry but I've never said all atheists are mass murderers. It is a fact that certain atheists like Pol Pot and Stalin were mass murderers. Many atheists love to point out the inquisition and crusades but cry rivers of tears when the astounding number of murders atheists have committed in the past 100 years is exposed.
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No one else but you would even have the idea to start every post mentioning that no matter what else may be the case Judaism killed Christ
Sorry, but you are lying by claiming I blame the Jews for the murder of Christ. Every human being who ever lived is the reason Christ died. Furthur, Christians ARE Jews.
So either quote where I said Judaism killed Christ or admit you lied.
Quote:
and a ton of peoples, no one else but you would start and end their posts mentioning that Christianity brought about the Inquisition, no one else but you would mention the aggressive nature of fundamental muslimic religious ideas.
You seem to be quite confused. I never accuse Christians of the inquistion since such actions taken by the inquisitors was against the teachings of Christ.
Uh, I'm the only one who has noticed Islamic terrorism? Really? What do you think the US has been fighting for the past 8 years?
Quote:
That's the point - what will this place come down to if everyone does like you and starts critisizing "the silly dogmas of Pentecostalism" in each and every post? Or Judaism? Or WHATEVER?
Sorry dude, but the thread I started was about whether or not there should be freedom of religion and whether or not (and how much) the government should be able to dictate religious doctrine and limit freedom of worship. But certain people like to turn pretty much every thread into a thread attacking religion.
Quote:
I repeat: EITHER you treat Atheism as a religion and act accordingly and with respect to the members of that religion and their belief, because what you are actually doing in that case is, you are insulting permanently and constantly a religion and its members.
You have bashed religion and Christianity in particular quite a bit. You seem to want atheism to be a protected religion that can't be critisized although you feel free to critisize other religions. Sorry, if you can't defend atheism with rational points please don't cry for the moderators to shut down the discussion and protect atheism.
Oh, would you care for me to list the direct insults you have directed against me?
The OSM is supposed to be for real world discussions. If you can't stand for your point of view to be critiqued then perhaps you should not participate or learn for tolerance for others to express their viewpoints as well.
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted October 09, 2010 01:20 AM |
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Hahahahaha! Oh god this is just fricking hilarious...
No wait, it's just tragic.
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1910
Known Hero
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posted October 09, 2010 01:56 AM |
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Quote:
The OSM is supposed to be for real world discussions..
To be honest, I really do think you need to step away from your computer and face a bit of reality. The way you go about things; crying over the littlest of things, claim to be insulted to when there are no insults thrown at you, thinking everybody is out to get you...it's quite sad and it seems you do need a dose of reality. You can't keep going the way you are. If everybody is complaining about you then is everybody else the problem or is it you?
Chill out, relax, step away from the computer and stop taking everything so badly on this forum. Life's too short to be getting worked up over nothing and getting insulted at every word. Chill. 
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted October 09, 2010 03:36 AM |
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Quote:
Chill out, relax, step away from the computer and stop taking everything so badly on this forum. Life's too short to be getting worked up over nothing and getting insulted at every word. Chill.
Pardon me? I'm not the one who is asking for moderators to suppress the opinions of others. I merely gave feedback on the false statements made about me in this thread.
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1910
Known Hero
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posted October 09, 2010 09:12 AM |
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I'm not only talking about this thread but everywhere else.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 09, 2010 10:00 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
But no one EXCEPT YOU is coming up with mass murdering atheists in every post as a point.
Sorry but I've never said all atheists are mass murderers. It is a fact that certain atheists like Pol Pot and Stalin were mass murderers. Many atheists love to point out the inquisition and crusades but cry rivers of tears when the astounding number of murders atheists have committed in the past 100 years is exposed.
Quote:
No one else but you would even have the idea to start every post mentioning that no matter what else may be the case Judaism killed Christ
Sorry, but you are lying by claiming I blame the Jews for the murder of Christ. Every human being who ever lived is the reason Christ died. Furthur, Christians ARE Jews.
So either quote where I said Judaism killed Christ or admit you lied.
Quote:
and a ton of peoples, no one else but you would start and end their posts mentioning that Christianity brought about the Inquisition, no one else but you would mention the aggressive nature of fundamental muslimic religious ideas.
You seem to be quite confused. I never accuse Christians of the inquistion since such actions taken by the inquisitors was against the teachings of Christ.
Uh, I'm the only one who has noticed Islamic terrorism? Really? What do you think the US has been fighting for the past 8 years?
What I simply mean is, that YOU are the only one who starts babbling about mass-murdering atheists in every post. There ARE a lot of posters here, including myself who have a critical opinion to organized religion and COULD tell alot about what has been done BY members of certain religions in the name of said religion and one or more gods - but NO ONE BUT YOU feels the need to mention those dark stains in every post.
That you come up with the excuse that this is about religious freedom is no excuse, on the contrary - everyone here could simply make posts summing up the dark stains, concluding that religion is dangerous and has to be limited in some way. Post after post after post, coming up with fundamental Islamism and how necessary it was due to their aggressive nature to put a stop to them, how Judaism and Zionism is still endangering the whole area around what is called Israel, that Christians have burned people for being witches and suppressed sexuality for centuries with desastrous consequences, even for their priests... And so on.
However, NO ONE DOES. No one except you, that is.
For the sake of information, we all know your opinion about atheism, and there is no need to repeat it in every post yet again. That you still do it, is a continous insult to this board in general and to all atheists here.
But that is actually beside the point - I'm not asking the moderators to shut you up or something.
What I want - and I repeat this, since you do seem unable to grasp this - is simply this:
Atheism is claimed to be a religion by you. (Most of the others here don't, mind you.) Supreme Court of the US ruled that Atheism is to be treated like a religion in all practical cases, meaning, that atheists are not to be discriminated because them being atheists.
Even though there weas a lot of argument with you about whether atheism is a religion or not, and you insisted.
Now, in that case, what you do is, that you are constantly and basically in every post are insulting and slandering the atheist belief and those who view themselves as atheists.
What I simply want to know from the moderators is, whether that is ok or not within the CoC. Can we slander and insult religions and beliefs like we want to and are in the mood to? Is it ok, to point out in every post, that Judaism is a sick belief in a sick monster, the believers who are getting maimed right after their birth, having killed the guy who was supposed to be their saviour?...
What's more, since we live in a part of the world that has been formed by the Christian belief, you can follow EVERY darn thing back to its roots and find some guilt with Christian belief, and if you invent something there - who cares? True or not, doesn't matter, no one minds anyway.
So will you want to read in every post, that no matter the point or the discussion, posts will claim that by rights no organized Christian belief should have survived since it has been upheld by a criminal organization that exploited their power and position many hundreds of years, bringing uncounted suffering over the world?
In short - is it ok, then, when EVERYONE starts to bash religions in every post? Is THAT what you want - do you want to have to correct bashing posts about Christianity and Pentecostalism every day by the dozen?
If it's not ok and you or the moderators do NOT want that, you have to get a grip and stop spouting forth hate speeches against atheism in each and every post, connected or not. Make a thread about it, if you feel the desire, "atheism, the bane of humanity?" or something, and go ahead, but as it is, it's simply insufferable.
Read correctly - I don't want the mods to stop you. I just want a clarification on what is the moderational point of view here. As far as I remember there have been discussions to ban all religious discussions from the OSM; YOU had complained about religion being bashed - but YOU are also bashing what you claim to be one basically in every post. Which seems ... incongruent.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted October 09, 2010 10:36 AM |
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The Moderators stance is that we don't want to have to be babysitters. Everybody should be able to police themselves, and act like grownups. Not cry 'insult' for every little thing. Stick to the facts, have a good DEBATE, but for all that is sanity...if you can't get along with somebody just do not discuss with them. Period. Or talk to them (if you don't think it is debating).
People need to grow up and take responsibility for their actions.
We would prefer a sane, ration, self moderated discussion. However, we can step in if needed. We will step in if people can't stop and think about what they are posting. If we have to ban every religious topic, or penalize for every religious comment..period, we will. We would rather NOT, and would rather trust the community to police themselves. Which, surprise is what we have been TRYING to do. Apparently it is failing. So, if we must, we will do what we will be forced to do. Just penalize anytime religion is mentioned period. Including 'atheism'.
So .. is that what you want, or do you want us to trust the community to police itself?
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Message received.
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