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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 08, 2011 09:54 AM |
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Quote:
Well JJ he's right. Just have one thread. ONE. Not a billion of them. And as we have seen here, none of them work. They quickly get out of hand.
We already had. I started a thread and asked people nicely to behave. Even gave some neutral points to discuss. Turned into a massive flame war later.
HC and religion threads = a big no. A single one is easier to contain, but it grows incredibly big and burns in flames extremely fast.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 08, 2011 09:55 AM |
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It has not worked all that well every single time it's been done since I gave up believing on God thread. It's not pessimism, it's an educated guess - a reality check if you prefer. Instead of getting worked up with me you should be trying to deal with the problems osm has, the ones that turn every religion threads into the kind we do not want. I'm just calling things as I see them.
For the record it wasn't me who added 'to delete' rating.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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1910
Known Hero
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posted April 08, 2011 09:56 AM |
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I know you did mate and it would hav e been a good thread except for certain people ruining it. It's just not possible on here to have a religious thread that doesn't turn into a massive flamewar which is a shame really. I'm just glad that that Baby thread is doing well. That's an example of how we should debate.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 08, 2011 10:01 AM |
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The problem is, that there's a certain person on HC, currently silenced, that would be magnet-pulled to the religion thread and spoil the discussion for everyone there with countless "I proved you wrong" babbling. Since that babbling doens't break the CoC, rather than simply pissing everyone around, there would not be any reason to silence him for bringing up his crusade in a dedicated thread, and he would also effectively ruin it.
So, I guess "no religion threads" is really the way to go right now 
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 08, 2011 10:18 AM |
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No, the way to go is good moderation. If some people start posting disruptively, a mod should deal with them. Simple as that.
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Eccentric Opinion
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 08, 2011 10:29 AM |
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Exactly.
Regular posters who think that way, can simply leave the thread in peace and wait until the crap hits the fan, befor they start the "I told you so" routine.
However, in my book it's a complete no-go for a moderator - and for a moderator of OTHER desboards at that - to SABOTAGE the efforts of THIS board's moderator by SPAMMING A THREAD OPENED WITH A HONEST PURPOSE IN MIND!
A TOTAL no-go.
Worse, I think that the obstinate insistance of just making a truthful comment and of course NOT deleting the spam, is not shedding a too positive light on Elvin's moderational abilities. Actually it's an abuse of moderator status.
Think about the poor moderators here. There they go working through posts, enacting rules, speak out bans to calm the waves - and just when it seems to work the moderator of another board comes in and flames a thread.
Great work.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted April 08, 2011 03:27 PM |
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In all fairness, the first post of the thread in question specifically asks a single user not to post. I don't think that's a very nice precedent to set, even though we might be able to sympathize in this case. If nothing else, directly asking a person not to participate is pretty much ensuring that he will, so it's as counterproductive as it is wrong.
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted April 08, 2011 04:46 PM |
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Just to make sure, Elodin is now sileneced for 92 hours? The guy is no saint and does his fair amount of antagonizing but he gets singled out here than any other member. There are plenty of times he is called ignorant/delusional/whatever and the mods ignore those remarks. For example:
Quote:
"Elodin, you are delusional as always.
Quote:
You seem incapable of straining out denotative, objective information and connotative, subjective information because you continue to claim Fox is "fair and balanced."
Nothing happened to that poster.
Was he silenced for dragging things off-topic? Like that never happens with any other thread in the OSM.
Now we allow threads to stand asking specific posters not to comment. Great. Single out posters further. Since everyone seems to have it out for him, just ban him already. Stop pretending like you don't want to do it.
As to the forum in general, I don't even know why I bother coming here anymore. The place has degenerated into spam Hell where it's OK for people to have threads about their small penis and fingering their anus on the front page. When did we become so complacent about the quality of the site?
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 08, 2011 04:53 PM |
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Well, as far as I know Elvin is no modserator of the OSM, so he's just a poaster with moderator right.
He abuses his position to devaluate a thread.
Actually, if there is no interest in a thread, what is wrong with NOT READING IT AND NOT POSTING IN IT?
In short, it's not Elvin's - or Bak's - business to spam a thread, neither as a moderator of other boards nor as a regular poster.
If everyone is allowed to spam threads - oh, not again, we had this, give it a rest, blablabla - we'll never get to anything, and if someone has a complaint about opening a thread, then the right place to do it is THIS thread, not the thread in question.
I mean, would you say it's necessary to post "This topic is boring" as a first post in a newly opened thread?
What is even worse:
WHY THE FUSS NOW?
Was it such an intelligent and necessary post of Elvin? Couldn't he have just deleted it AND GIVE THE DARN THREAD A CHANCE OR LEAVE IT to ITSELF TO DIE? Is that an unreasonable demand?
No, it must OF COURSE be discussed, OF COURSE he couldn't simply delete it, OF COURSE everyone and their dog must now add their Cent, OF COURSE it's a matter of me critisizing the mods again...
Why can't just for once a thing simply DONE?
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted April 08, 2011 04:59 PM |
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No need to make a big quarrel out of that people.
Named thread was moved to the wastelands, reasons were given in the thread itself.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 11, 2011 02:46 PM |
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I probably shouldn't even reply here as this issue has long since been resolved but just so you don't complain that I abused my position and fled or something..
I see Vlaad and angelito amongst others have explained the situation, all I have to add is that my role as a moderator had nothing to do with it nor did I mean any disrespect to gnomes which I'm sure he already knows. If he has a problem he can tell me so himself, it's not like I'm oppressing anyone. You cannot kill what is already dead.
PS this is not an invitation to resume a dead discussion, it's just an explanation for JJ's sake. Peace.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 11, 2011 03:22 PM |
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It is no explanation. If you are the only one who realizes that a friend is dead you still shouldn't shoot on him.
In other words, the fact that a thread may be stillborn for formal reasons doesn't justify sarcastic spamming, since it won't lead to anything.
Since you ara Mod, it would have been WAY better to notify gnomes for him to edit the thread accordingly, instead of making fof it. It would have been way better to simply delete the spam when I asked you as well and inform us about what was the deal.
But, no, that's of course impossible. Children...
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted April 11, 2011 04:54 PM |
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Well... give us a break man compared to a 51 year old 95% of us look like children. Way to abuse the fact that there are no 100 year olds on HC that can call you a child...
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted April 12, 2011 04:39 PM |
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The principal problem with the OSM is the moderators. They seem to have no respect for the Code of Conduct and no intention of being fair in its application. In fact a certain moderator flaunts being unfair.
Angelito
Quote:
As promised before, offtopic and irrelevance will be handled immediately. A bit of vacation for you....
But you broke your promise.
You allowed others to post off topic, discuss religion, and insult me. They were not penalized or silenced for 1 week like I was (and I was merely explaining why I could not advance a religious argument when asked for an explanation.)
You have once again proven you have no interest in being a fair or unbiased moderator. You flaunt being unfair in fact. The Code of Conduct is a farce under your moderation.
The OSM will never improve until there are new moderators who don't make the Code of Conduct a farce and who apply the same standards to all.
Immediately after you post saying:
Quote:
Do NOT turn this into a question about religion or bible or anything like that! I will immediately delete those posts and take further actions if needed.
(which I had not been doing) Doomforge took the opportunity to take a swipe at me. Clearly off topic at at least borderline Code of Conduct violation. Was he silenced? Nope.
Quote:
Fortunately, the topic has not been overrun by Elodin yet.
So, on topic. I always thought there is a bright and shiny future for the human race in the genetic course. Because that's the only way we can reach true equality in life.
If you claim if was because I mentioned religion (I did not advance a religious argument), others mentioned religion after your post. For example, :
(not a reply to me, by the way)
Quote:
1.whether you believe/not believe in god is irrelevant since you don’t represent humanity, majority of people do believe thus making my statement regarding human beings as egocentric ones a valid statement, we atheists believe that humans invented religion, if majority of humanity believes there is a special divine plan and that they are special as opposed to other creatures on this or other planet then humans are egocentric, or do u disagree with that ?
2.There is no such thing as atheist philosophy requiring one to believe anything, there is no set of behaviors to which all atheists adhere.
I don’t believe in god, does that make me an atheist ? sure, if you want to call me that go ahead, I don’t really care about those labels nor will I share your opinions or views on certain topics just because we both are atheists in your book.
And actually, my post that I was silenced for a week over was explaining that I was not allowed to argue from a theist viewpoint per your command.
Corribus:
Quote:
Ah, so you’re a proponent of the “ignorance is bliss” school of human psychology? Perhaps you think we were better off when we thought Zeus was responsible for lightning, hmmm?
Corribus:
Quote:
{5} I like talking about religion, and we have had some very good discussions here in the past. (I direct you specifically to the “I gave up believing in god” thread – should be easy to find with some browsing; it’s the one with like 50 red stars behind it.) The problem is that a certain fundamentalist poster here pretty much drags any discussion about religion into the mud – even those which are not explicitly about religion but which may touch on religious themes or involve religious beliefs. Frankly, it’s only a matter of time until this thread is destroyed as well, so say what you want while you can.
gnome:
Quote:
Sorry for popping in here randomly, and not really contributing to the discussion (Which is very interesting, btw) But I just have to remind Elodin of something...
@ Elodin: Remember on page 5 where Angelito said that religious posts that attempted to derail the thread would be purged? It will be no matter how much you object to it, because you are:
A) Basically breaking a pre-set law of this area. and B) This is not a democracy. This is a republic where those elected to lead never step down. The mod's word is law.
So shush.
I had not advanced a religious argument and this comment by gnome was clearly off topic.
Corribus:
Quote:
Elodin, you wouldn't recognize a circular argument if it jumped up and punched you in the face, and I cannot state loudly enough that I have no interest in discussing any topic with you whatsoever.
A violation of the Code of Conduct and off topic.
Corribus (not replying to me)
Quote:
Your logic may be internally consistent using your value system (although I'm not convinced it is), but you can't extend that to any sort of universal truth.
Smithey
Quote:
But of course it is subjective, by definition it is how I view things (emphasis on I), your point of view is just as subjective.
I'm really curious though on what is your value system and why do you view animals and humans on the same level, both emotionally and rationally ?
....
There is no universal truth on this subject, universal truth exists in simple matters such as "all that lives must die", this is a far more complexed issue, pick random people from different areas of expertise and everyone will have their own truth, none of us will have the universal one.
In a thread that had not been posted in for a week Peacemaker decided to pop in with an insult to me.
posted April 07, 2011 10:34 AM
Thread: The propagandization of America: The Reason Crossfire was Cancelled
Quote:
Elodin, you are delusional as always.
Others , including Corribus, insult me quite frequently and have never been penalized for doing so.
Biased and unjust moderation is quite evident and has been flaunted for quite some time now.
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Revelation
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted April 12, 2011 04:46 PM |
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Well. To give a feedback to the temp ban/silencing in the OSM of elodin. I as well think it was way way over the line.
I don't understand why he should have exactly a week off, nor do I understand what makes the applied rule apply in said thread, but not in other threads.
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Living time backwards
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted April 12, 2011 06:33 PM |
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@ Elodin
Stop it. I won't let all this whining come up again. If you feel you are not treated well here, feel free to not post anymore. I have talked to you a lot. You do not seem to learn. I am tired of talking. I will act only.
You told us all in many posts that it is ok life is NOT fair. Even God is NOT fair. He let's babies die by starvation, while atheist tyranns like Hitler, Stalin or Pol Pot have a much better life.
So if you think you are treated unfair...so be it.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 12, 2011 08:03 PM |
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I'd like an official word on Elodin's last thread, about "Rules of Participation", before I post there - not that I'd have an opinion myself on it.
I'd just like to know, after the last "incident", whether it's ok to make special rules for thread participation that somewhat counteract CoC or mods's interpretation of them, or whether we can expect trouble here from the mods.
I did the "no-quote" experiment which was a restriction of CoC.
This is basically the opposite.
Anyway, this or that way, I don't care - but make a call.
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bLiZzArdbOY
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted April 12, 2011 08:06 PM |
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Quote:
I hereby suggest that every post in the feedback thread must include a photograph of a kitten.
Reason: it's much harder to whine and complain when you have to start with a picture of a cute little animal.
Who's with me?????
I would like to add an earmark to this bill:
I am of course speaking of nude pics.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted April 12, 2011 08:22 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 21:06, 12 Apr 2011.
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Quote:
@ Elodin
Stop it. I won't let all this whining come up again. If you feel you are not treated well here, feel free to not post anymore. I have talked to you a lot. You do not seem to learn. I am tired of talking. I will act only.
You told us all in many posts that it is ok life is NOT fair. Even God is NOT fair. He let's babies die by starvation, while atheist tyranns like Hitler, Stalin or Pol Pot have a much better life.
So if you think you are treated unfair...so be it.
I thought this was a feedback thread for Heroes Community members, not your own private dictatorship. Others have stated I was treated unfairly too. In this feedback thread and in a thread you sent to the Wastelands. Why won't you discuss the issue rather than just saying "shut up."
Feedback is necessary to make the OSM a better place. Feedback should be encouraged even if it is feedback that you don't want to hear.
@JJ
My intent with the "rules" is to have an understanding from everyone what is and is not acceptable. The moderators give conflicting messages on what the Code of Conduct says an insult is so I wanted no misunderstanding.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 12, 2011 08:29 PM |
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Quote:
Others have stated I was treated unfairly too.
Sorry to disappoint, but the one who took your defense joined HC one month ago. Give him some time.
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